Weekly online shmeet ranking discussion

[Shatterhand]

Ok, Ramus asked me some help to find a fine ranking system, so I am creating this topic so we can discuss it.

If no one helps me finding a good, balanced ranking system, I'll just make my own, and everyone will have to shut up and accept it

I want to come with something up until this current week ends, so we have something solid before the 2nd game has been played.

So far, we have the current ranking system, and we have Edge's idea of putting everyone in 5 different tiers, spreading the points between the tiers, as it has been explained in the other topic.

My first idea was to have 3 tiers, divide the players among the tiers according to SCORE PROXIMITY (I.E, top scores in tier 1, middle scores in tier 2 and lower scores in tier 3) - in this case we could even have just one player in Tier 3, if he score was much lower than everyone else.

And in this idea, I though that's how I would distribute the points:

1st place tier 1 - 10 points
everyone else in tier 1 - 8 points
last place tier 1 - 7 points
1st place tier 2 - 6 points
everyone else in tier 2 - 5 points
last place tier 2 - 4 points
1st place tier 3 - 3 points
everyone else in tier 3 - 2 points
last place tier 3 - 1 point

And there would also be the bonus points for specific circustances, which should vary from game to game (whenever something like that shows up)

At this point I think Edge's idea is actually better than mine (and less complicated too)...

I also had the idea of making the points be given like the ATP tournament...

For who doesn't know tennis, I'll try to explain (Believe me , it's a lot easier to do it than to describe it)

The idea is to have "seasons" (As prizes are given at every 3 months, I think a season should last 3 months)... at the end of each season, you DON'T lose any points... instead, at every new week, you lose the points that you won in this same week last season (Let's say it's the 1st week of the 2nd season... if you had made 3 points in the 1st week of the 1st season, you lose 3 points).... and by the end of that week you obviously will have the chance to get your points back again, to get even more points (If you play better than you played in this week last season), or to lose points if your perfomance declines.

If we do it this way, no one will ever skyrocket in the ranking, and you can keep things balanced. Everyone will always have a chance to get to the top, and you can keep the rankings balanced too (People would be able to get "Promoted" or "relegated" .. )

The biggest drawback of this method is that we have to keep record of each performance in each week, though this isn't all that hard to do.


We also need a place to archive each shmeet week, so we don't clutter the hi-score board.

So.. any one with more ideas? What you guys think about those ones?

[Edge]

I think the idea with the seasons is very good. I'd prefer that the points are completely reseted after one season instead of the ATB.

And offcourse all rankings from previoud seasons will still be recorded (like player XY placed 5th in Season spring/2006) But the points will be reseted. This way when a new season starts everyone will be more excited to have a new start and to do better this time. Well, that's what I think.


And to the scoring mechanics, I don't like the idea of splitting the players into 3 tiers by their scores so much. But I have just thought of another idea. It's not that good, but anyway:

The first place gets as many points as players joined. So, in case of DonPachi, the first place would get 19 points. The Second place would get 18, third gets 17... and so on. Till the last one gets 1 point.

But the problem with that system is:
First the total number of points for one game can vary, because it depends on the number of players competing. The original idea was the more users where playing the harder you got the first place and every single place will have a different points value. However I guess this one would be too unbalanced.

I personally still like the 5 tiers idea. But there might also be some other ways how the scoring could work.

[Icarus]

1st place tier 1 - 10 points...
etc etc

I dunno, the difference between the top and 2nd place players is pretty big with that system, and if the top ranked player stays top throughout the competitions, it'll be very dificult to catch up as the shmeets progress.

While I like Ramus' original idea (top in tier gets x points, rest of tier gets x-1 points), Edge's idea is pretty interesting - albeit a bit complex to work out, and may not be completely functional if there is less than a certain amount of players - while yours looks like a slightly higher scoring version of Ramus' method, which also works under certain circumstances.

My little idea was this:

• Tier 1 (always the top 3 players):
  - 1st place - 6pts
  - 2nd place -5pts
  - 3rd place - 4pts
• Tier 2 (up to maximum 5 players):
  - all players ranked in Tier 2 get 3pts
• Tier 3 (rest of listed players):
  - all players ranked in Tier 3 get 2pts...
  - ... EXCEPT for the very last player, who gets a measly 1pt

With this system, it'll be easier to sort out the player rankings into some sort of order, and the points structure will give players incentive to aim for a higher placing and the better points hauls. Nobody wants to get 1pt at the end of the week ^_- (And it'll encourage players confident in a particular game to aim for higher score records ^_-)

Obviously, with this system, it'll be dependent on how many players participate. If there are up to 8 players, then you'd be guaranteed 3pts for finishing outside the top 3, unless you wish to consider splitting the remaining players outside the top 3 into the other two Tiers - like for example, if there was 8 players total, then 3 in Tier 1, 3 in Tier 2, and two in Tier 3.

We also need a place to archive each shmeet week, so we don't clutter the hi-score board.

Does the forum not allow creation of subforums within subforums? (iLke how you can have a Manga forum at some Anime boards, which has subcategories for CG Sets, Manga, Fanart etc etc).

Or what about a locked forum just for the shmeets, which can either be viewable to mods and admins only (for archival) or public (for browsable archival)?

[Edge]

In your system, Icarus.

We have the top players getting different amount of points and we the middle, with most players getting 2 or 3 points in one game. This way most players will get 2-3 points for every game and getting more than 3 points in one game will be very difficult. Though the idea with the last place is funny.


The system I recommended in the beginning isn't so complicated, it just sounds like that if you explain it. First it works with any amount of players.

If 6 or less players are playing everyone gets one point difference. (1st place 6 points, 2nd place 5 points)

And if only 3 people where playing the last player will get 4 points.

But the idea with only the last player getting 1 point is pretty good.

What about this one, First player gets 7 points, the other players are divided into 5 tiers (6-2 points) and the last player gets 1 point.

For this dividing people stuff, I could prepare a excel file and upload it. So in the end of one week, say 17 people were competing. Then you can open that file and simply look: aha, number of people playing 17. And then the way how the points are shared is already listed in this file.

And while the week is still running the highscores must not be divided into tiers, they could simply be listed like this: (Which I'd prefer anyway)

1.
2.
3.
... 17.

Then in the end of one week the people see how many points they got. I think this would make the end more exciting and every place could give you a point more or less.

About the 3 tiers system:
Let's say someone has barely made 2'100. The second tier ranges from 2'000-4'000 and the highest player in this tier have already 3'900. Than mr. 2'100 may give up to get more points. Because he knows he won't reach 3'900 in this game. But there are still people above him in his tier with say 2'300, 2'600 and so on... Also if you have reached a certain score in one game, your tier is safe. So it may get people to think: "Ok, to reach tier 2 I need that many points after I archieved that I propably won't be able to reach tier 1. So I might as well stop playing this game and wait for another game next week."

Offcourse this is a bit dramatically in reality most shmuppers are playing out of fun anyway. But I think the points beeing revealed only in the end of a week would make the highscore hunt a little more exciting and a little more motivating.


Besides, how do we choose from what lowest score to which highest score the tiers range in each particular game? (for the 3 tier score related system)

[Edge]

So? Have you already decided how to handle the scores, Shatterhand?

[Shatterhand]

Ok, if you make an excell file to sort out your system, I think we should use it. It's the best system IMO.

And we can zero the scores after each season. Using either the ATP system or just zeroing doesn't make a big difference (The scores would be the same anyway). It's just that with the ATP system there's a feeling of a "running" competiton.

And damn, I barely played Cyvern this week

[Edge]

Ok, I am done:

Here is a download Link for the excel file:
http://rapidshare.de/files/9304288/shmeet.xls.html

(To download it, scroll down and click onto "free". Then scroll down again and type in this stuff you see in the graphic.)

Creating this system was fun.