Working with Benq Tate-able Monitors...

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Blade
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Working with Benq Tate-able Monitors...

Post by Blade »

I own an Alienware (made by Benq) 20" Monitor that's Tate-able:

Image


Someone suggested to me that I should get a VGA adapter, but what I really want to do is hook up my Consoles (PS2 and Gamecube respectively) to my PC monitor and not through my PC I have a ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0 hookup that only seems to work when my Monitor is Hori and even then through the USB the game action that shows up is a second or more delayed feedback from my actual gameplay movements, hardly suitable for a Full-screen Vertical Shmup like Ikaruga or Shikigami no Shiro.

So if someone can help with advice on what I should get (preferable multi-system VGA adaptation although I dunno if that even exists), I'd greatly appreciate it.

-->Also, I have a slight problem with Ikaruga in particular, Ikaruga only Tates clockwise (it can't tate counterclockwise) while my monitor only physically rotates clockwise resulting in an upside-down view when tated...is there a way to rectify this?
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Post by Specineff »

XRGB2, darling.
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Post by Blade »

Will that solve my Ikaruga problem too? :)
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Post by iatneH »

The LCD monitors at my workplace don't even have a rotating bezel. I just put a piece of grippy rubber on the desk and flip the whole thing over, base and all :)

And I'm just using a cheapie VGA box... sure the quality sucks, but it's convenience vs quality here.
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Post by neorichieb1971 »

Gamecube has a VGA cable for $50+. (about 20% of the games will not work)

PS2 requires XRGB or equivalent.

XBox and 360 have VGA cables.

Dreamcast has VGA box. (some games will not work)


I would only get XRGB if your wanting to upscan older consoles.
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Post by Pingu »

I'm with neorichlieb, all newer consoles except the ps2 already got native vga support and some of the ps2consoles got component video which means you could use a component to vga box.

The XRGB2 is one sexy beast though. :wink:
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Post by elvis »

Pingu wrote:The XRGB2 is one sexy beast though. :wink:
And terribly expensive. You could probably find a second-hand RGB monitor for the same price, and it would look better for low-res shmups.
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Post by Vexorg »

I don't know about that particular model, but my Dell 2001FP has S-video and Composite inputs on it. I've used those for my various consoles, although my 360 is now hooked up with the VGA cable (since my PC uses the DVI connection, I can run both without messing with cables.)
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Post by Blade »

Okay, just so you know, I'm not trying to turn my comp monitor into an Arcade cab here, I just want something simple (I'm not rich) that can directly hook up to it. And does anyone know how to solve the problem with Ikaruga where the screen ends up upside-down when tated?
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Post by elvis »

Blade wrote:And does anyone know how to solve the problem with Ikaruga where the screen ends up upside-down when tated?
If your monitor uses standard VESA mounts, then you can try to buy one that supports rotation in both directions.

These seem to be expensive though (where there's a market, there's a markup). Considering all you need is two bits of metal (or even wood) with holes in the right place, you might even consider making one as a DIY project. Wouldn't be difficult nor expensive.
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Post by Blade »

Having seen a wicked pricetag for that XRGB2, I think I might be better off getting separate VGA converters for my systems, as for the Mount, considering I'm not that creative when rotating a 30 lb monitor on my desk (which feels a bit heavier than most I'd wager), I might consider investing in that. :wink:

Unless someone can give me advice for constructing a decent mount that won't fall apart on me and damage my monitor... :?
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Post by elvis »

Two plates of metal with standard VESA-mount holes cut in them, and possibly some spacers to create a bit of a gap. Bolt them together with something low profile (simple nut and bolt would do), and put a couple of washers in between to ease the movement.

You're talking 20 minutes on a weekend, and about $10 in metal to make something that will spin 360 degrees.

God knows why it costs $100+ to buy "official" vesa mounts from people like Sony and Panasonic.

[edit]

Check these for reference:
http://images.google.com.au/images?q=vesa%20mount
http://www.networktechinc.com/appnotes/ ... 0-75mm.gif
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Post by Blade »

Okay, need some advice...

I'm trying to get a reliable VGA adapter for PS2/Gamecube (both/universal preferred) that's within the price range of $50-70

I was browsing Lik-Sang a while ago, but it's really confusing as to what to get.

And no, I am not getting the XRGB2+!!! :shock:
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Post by Texhnolyze »

Blade wrote:Okay, need some advice...

I'm trying to get a reliable VGA adapter for PS2/Gamecube (both/universal preferred) that's within the price range of $50-70

I was browsing Lik-Sang a while ago, but it's really confusing as to what to get.

And no, I am not getting the XRGB2+!!! :shock:
The XRGB-3 is coming out shortly and will retail for 37,590 yen (ouch!).

A cheap universal VGA adapter will be crap. For the PS2, I recommend the Hori Upscan Converter 2 which works with XBox as well:

http://tinyurl.com/ostwf
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Post by Blade »

Except it doesn't do anything with Gamecube.
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Post by Blade »

I'm looking at this model: http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?catego ... ts_id=4233&

It's the Progressive Scan Component VGA Box...has anyone had any experience with it? I basically want something that'll work well with my PS2/Gamecube...
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Post by elvis »

Explanation time:

Consoles *GENERALLY* spit out CGA resolutions to the screen. These are 15KHz modes.

VGA monitors require 31KHz (VGA) or greater. Sometimes these are also called "progressive scan modes".

This refers to the fact that a lot of consoles use a 480 line mode (640x480) but interlace the picture (ie: draw the picture in 2 passes, drawing the odd lines on the first pass, and the even lines on the second pass). This is called "480i". This is a simple technique to draw higher resolutions to a low resolution screen. The end result however is half the vertical refresh rate (30Hz instead of 60Hz which results in "flickering") and often a picture that seems more blurred to the naked eye. (This is done at 15KHz horizontal scanrate)

"Progressive scan" is when all 480 lines are drawn in one pass, and referred to as "480p". Often this is done at a full 60Hz (ie: 60 frames per second) resulting in a flicker-free image that is higher resolution, and nice and crisp. Problem is, you need a device that can support this. (This is done at 31KHz horizontal scanrate)

This device:
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?catego ... ts_id=4233&
will ONLY output VGA if and only if the game you are using supports progressive scan output over component cables.

Now... most modern consoles CAN spit out progressive scan modes. The kicker is that not all GAMES support these modes.

If the GAME you are using supports progressive scan, then you can select this feature and push it out through the "Progressive-Scan Component VGA Box" linked there on Lik-Sang. This will give an excellent quality image as Component is very clear, and you are merely transcoding a YUV signal to a RGB signal - no resolution change or upscanning occurs, and you will get a 1:1 quality of whatever is being spat out of your component lead.

If the GAME does not support progressive scan (which is the case for quite a few 2D shooters on PS2) then you need an UPSCAN CONVERTER:
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-71-86- ... 0-5w4.html
This device will do 1 of 2 things:

1) If the input signal is a low-res (around 320 lines) progressive scan signal, it will double each scanline and send the "upscanned" information at a higher rate to the VGA device.

2) If the input signal is a high-res (480 lines) interlaced signal, it will combine the two interlaced fields every into one single progressive field, and send it as two frames (ie: a higher rate) to the VGA device.

So "upscan" converters will work on any console. Be warned however that they can't magically make a picture look better. If you are using composite video output (the little yellow plug) from your console, the end result is often pretty blurred and ugly. Try to use a better quality output like S-Video or even component if your upscan converter will take it.

So which do you buy?

Well, both. (Or get the XRGB). The Lik-Sang unit will ONLY accept 31KHz inputs via component. The Hori unit will ONLY accept 15KHz inputs via composite, s-video or component. Neither will accept a different input, which kinda sucks.

Other options: Dell have a range of monitors out now (generally their 24" and up units) which have component inputs! These will take 15Khz all the way up to about 50KHz (for higher modes like 720p and up) directly. No scan converters or YUV->RGB converters necessary. The only bummer is the upfront cost.

For me personally, I only play on low-res RGB monitors using RGB/SCART cable hacks. I don't like the look of LCD monitors at all. Yes they are nice and small and light, but I'm not willing to sacrifice visuals for convenience. Call me old fashioned. :)
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Post by Blade »

AARGH, you just made things a lot harder, elvis!

Okay, here's the thing...I've got these shmups:

PS2:
Gradius V
Castle Shikigami 2
Raiden III (Import)

Gamecube:
Ikaruga
Chaos Field

Which ones are displayable in Progressive Scan? And which ones will I need Upscan Converter for? (maybe someone should make a techlist of these games that can be put in Progressive Scan in another thread)
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Post by mannerbot »

Trust me, don't go cheap. It'll look like shit. For DC it's simple, just get the VGA box; the clockwise rotation of LCD's is kind of a bummer since you might have to buy a new stand for your monitor to fix that though. Just listen to richie. I'm pretty sure that most of the games you listed are displayable in progressive scan, btw.
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Post by elvis »

Blade wrote:AARGH, you just made things a lot harder, elvis!
Sorry... I have a bad habit of doing that. IcyCalm has suggested he will post a "laymans version" of all that one day, which will be good.
Blade wrote: Okay, here's the thing...I've got these shmups:
I'm going by google search results here (except for Raiden III, which I have). Please, if anyone has first-hand information, post a reply.

15KHz - upscan converter needed
31KHz - progressive scan

PS2:
Gradius V - 15Khz only
Castle Shikigami 2 - 15KHz only
Raiden III (Import) - 15KHz only

Gamecube:
Ikaruga - 15KHz/31Khz selectable
Chaos Field - 15KHz/31KHz selectable

I have Ikaruga and Chaos Feild on DreamCast, and both work perfectly with the VGA box in progressive scan mode (I've played both on my girlfriend's LCD PC monitor).

I do hope that the next generation of consoles support hi-res component RGB out. The DreamCast was so far ahead of its time it wasn't funny!
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Post by oxtsu »

Hori Upscan Converter 2 would seem your best value (uses RGB directly from PS2, unlike similarly priced upscan units). You can use its S-Video or composite input for GC.

Progressive scan/480p isn't really needed for PS2, as so few games utilize the feature. None of the games you listed support it either.

The modded Gamecube D-Terminal/Component gives an outstanding VGA image, but is not worth it just for the two games you care about (Chaos Field is an odd one that doesn't support 480p, btw).
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Post by elvis »

oxtsu wrote:Chaos Field is an odd one that doesn't support 480p, btw.
I don't own a GameCube and can't verify it, but the following two "reviews" state that it does support 480p (not that I trust either source):
http://cube.ign.com/articles/680/680836p1.html
http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/action ... eview.html
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Post by oxtsu »

I was referring to the JPN version of Chaos Field. Didn't know the US version was any different in that regard. Good news if it's true.
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Post by Blade »

oxtsu wrote:You can use its S-Video or composite input for GC.
So despite the Hori only stating it works for PS2 and X-Box, it works fine for Gamecube?

...Also, I put up a Thread to list Shmups and their display types for something for a handy reference. Linkie.
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Post by elvis »

Blade wrote:So despite the Hori only stating it works for PS2 and X-Box, it works fine for Gamecube?
Yes, it will work fine for GC. There is no magic difference between PS2/XBox and GC.

Heck, you could plug a NES into that thing (assuming you had the version with A/V out, and not the crappy RF-only one, of course).
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Post by Blade »

Well, I've been shopping around for quite some time now and I can't find a Base that Tates Counter-clockwise....closest thing I've found is the Neo-Flex Arm Mount...but that's got a clamp on it I have no place to put. My desk has no edges to it, and I can't hook up anything to the walls where I'm at? Any suggestions?

Perhaps a way to adjust my monitor's pivot might be useful. ^^
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Post by Blade »

It's OFFICIAL: The people who design monitors at BenQ are MORONS.

I call up their helpline to see if I can get some leeway on getting a counter-clockwise rotatable monitor base, they got nothing...also, I discovered I happen to HAVE a S-Video and Composite connection, however, there's no way to plug in normal speakers directly into the monitor...what they do have, it seems, is some wonky speaker setup (my Monitor's make is FP2091) designed solely for monitors that use a input Sound DC 12Volt hookup, and they don't even have the name of the speaker listed...

Has anyone around here ever heard of a Female-Famale AC Speaker Two-Way Plug? It looks like the end of an AC adapter plug, but it plugs into the computer and speakers...?

Also, these are the speakers I'm expected to find and hookup, the manual doesn't even tell you what brand name or make they are....sigh...

Image

Radioshack and CompUSA have never heard of them either.... :(

I have just one final question....why are there shmups out there that only Tate clockwise???? Raiden III has the same problem as Ikaruga...how the heck do you solve these problems?
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Post by elvis »

1) Make your own 360-degree rotatable VESA mount. Shouldn't be hard at all, and solve all your ills.

2) Most monitors use a 3.5mm stereo jack input. These are the same impedance and unamplified signal as your regular run of the mill stereo A/V cables from any console. Buying a 2xRCA plug to 3.5mm stereo jack converter from any electronics store shouldn't cost you more than $5, and allow you to connect any console directly into the speakers on your monitor.
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Post by Blade »

Except I technically don't have a place to Mount the Mount...the mounts usually have to have a wall they get nailed to, and the arms need something to clamp on to, my desk has no edges to grip.

I live in a college dormatory. :oops:
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