Extron DVI-RGB 200 Questions

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Ikaruga11
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Extron DVI-RGB 200 Questions

Post by Ikaruga11 »

1. Will the Extron DVI-RGB 200 accept and output 240p, 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i resolutions signals? No scaling, just straight passthrough and digital to analog conversion.
2. Can the Extron DVI-RGB 200 process and output Full Range and Limited Range RGB signals?
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Extron DVI-RGB 200 Questions

Post by maxtherabbit »

I should preface this by saying I do not own this device, but judging by my experience with similar Extron products the answer to '1' is no. These are scalers which operate with a fixed output resolution, there is no concept of passthrough
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orange808
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Re: Extron DVI-RGB 200 Questions

Post by orange808 »

It's not a video scaler. It doesn't add lag. It is just a DAC.

The DVI-RGB unit I own in stored away. I remember some noise in the output, but that was probably related to the unit's age. I think it had a lot of hours on it. But, the reason I decided I didn't like it had nothing to do with the video quality.

I had to manually change the setting on the very small "EDID wheel" on the rear face of the device to support different inputs. YMMV. I remember other people had similar experiences. I couldn't find one setting for everything. Maybe it will work for others; I didn't like it. The EDID wheel probably does more than just set the EDID; I think it also configures the device and affects the DAC process.

I don't remember how well it supported 240p. Extron doesn't mention NTSC or PAL at all in the docs, so even standard video isn't officially supported. I disliked the need to manually configure the machine using that inconvenient and awful wheel that is hidden away on the rear of the machine.

The selection wheel is ridiculously tiny and (unlike most controls) it isn't raised above the face of the machine (the wheel is not much higher than the surface). You may need a small tool to set it. It also can be difficult to find the exact setting you want, because each setting on the extremely small wheel is close together. It's easy to accidentally click past your desired setting.

So, if you'd like to regularly "pull out" the lagless DAC transcoder, get access to the back panel, get light, and use a tool to manipulate a very difficult small wheel, it might work for you.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Extron DVI-RGB 200 Questions

Post by maxtherabbit »

orange808 wrote:It's not a video scaler. It doesn't add lag. It is just a DAC.
I see, sorry I just assumed it was like the 300 series
Ikaruga11
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Re: Extron DVI-RGB 200 Questions

Post by Ikaruga11 »

orange808 wrote:It's not a video scaler. It doesn't add lag. It is just a DAC.

The DVI-RGB unit I own in stored away. I remember some noise in the output, but that was probably related to the unit's age. I think it had a lot of hours on it. But, the reason I decided I didn't like it had nothing to do with the video quality.

I had to manually change the setting on the very small "EDID wheel" on the rear face of the device to support different inputs. YMMV. I remember other people had similar experiences. I couldn't find one setting for everything. Maybe it will work for others; I didn't like it. The EDID wheel probably does more than just set the EDID; I think it also configures the device and affects the DAC process.

I don't remember how well it supported 240p. Extron doesn't mention NTSC or PAL at all in the docs, so even standard video isn't officially supported. I disliked the need to manually configure the machine using that inconvenient and awful wheel that is hidden away on the rear of the machine.

The selection wheel is ridiculously tiny and (unlike most controls) it isn't raised above the face of the machine (the wheel is not much higher than the surface). You may need a small tool to set it. It also can be difficult to find the exact setting you want, because each setting on the extremely small wheel is close together. It's easy to accidentally click past your desired setting.

So, if you'd like to regularly "pull out" the lagless DAC transcoder, get access to the back panel, get light, and use a tool to manipulate a very difficult small wheel, it might work for you.
I see. So using HDMI -> HD Fury 3 -> RGBHV -> Extron RGB 203 Rxi -> RGBS -> BVM would be better and more conienent than HDMI -> DVI -> Extron DVI-RGB 200 -> RGBS -> BVM?
strayan
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Re: Extron DVI-RGB 200 Questions

Post by strayan »

The DVI RGB 150 works with 240p. You’ll need to set your devices to output limited range though. You can also output RGsB which is handy in certain use cases.

I think fudoh might have a DVI RGB 200 so he might be able comment further: https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.p ... 8#p1441618
Last edited by strayan on Wed Jun 07, 2023 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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orange808
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Re: Extron DVI-RGB 200 Questions

Post by orange808 »

Is this is about MiSTer? I think it is.

Make better choices. What is outputting 240p over HDMI?

Last time I checked, no MiSTer cores (outside of experimental) use the extra memory on that digital board. Get an analog output board and call it a day. Ignore the noise. The convenience and output quality of the analog board is just fine. There were a lot of dumb posts that said it's easy to plug in Chinese cheap crap and get better results than the analog board. Well, read around this forum and tell me if that's true. Don't install that digital board and don't bother with RAM you don't need. Get something plug and play that works. Yeah, the digital output is technically better, but setting up a quality DAC isn't.

You can speculate about the future, but the speed of the DE-10 and the amount of gates will probably limit what can be done tomorrow. Will you ever need that RAM? Seems like you're "future proofing" for nothing--and giving up the best overall analog option for no good reason.
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kitty666cats
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Re: Extron DVI-RGB 200 Questions

Post by kitty666cats »

Ikaruga11 wrote:
orange808 wrote:It's not a video scaler. It doesn't add lag. It is just a DAC.

The DVI-RGB unit I own in stored away. I remember some noise in the output, but that was probably related to the unit's age. I think it had a lot of hours on it. But, the reason I decided I didn't like it had nothing to do with the video quality.

I had to manually change the setting on the very small "EDID wheel" on the rear face of the device to support different inputs. YMMV. I remember other people had similar experiences. I couldn't find one setting for everything. Maybe it will work for others; I didn't like it. The EDID wheel probably does more than just set the EDID; I think it also configures the device and affects the DAC process.

I don't remember how well it supported 240p. Extron doesn't mention NTSC or PAL at all in the docs, so even standard video isn't officially supported. I disliked the need to manually configure the machine using that inconvenient and awful wheel that is hidden away on the rear of the machine.

The selection wheel is ridiculously tiny and (unlike most controls) it isn't raised above the face of the machine (the wheel is not much higher than the surface). You may need a small tool to set it. It also can be difficult to find the exact setting you want, because each setting on the extremely small wheel is close together. It's easy to accidentally click past your desired setting.

So, if you'd like to regularly "pull out" the lagless DAC transcoder, get access to the back panel, get light, and use a tool to manipulate a very difficult small wheel, it might work for you.
I see. So using HDMI -> HD Fury 3 -> RGBHV -> Extron RGB 203 Rxi -> RGBS -> BVM would be better and more conienent than HDMI -> DVI -> Extron DVI-RGB 200 -> RGBS -> BVM?

HDFury 3 can output RGBS if you configure the MiSTer to output RGBS over the HDMI out
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Fudoh
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Re: Extron DVI-RGB 200 Questions

Post by Fudoh »

if you configure the MiSTer to output RGBS over the HDMI out
this is something I haven't been able to wrap my head around to this very day. I have absolutely no idea what the source is altering in a digital signal to make a DAC output composite sync instead of horizontal sync. True magic!
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Unseen
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Re: Extron DVI-RGB 200 Questions

Post by Unseen »

orange808 wrote:Make better choices. What is outputting 240p over HDMI?
GCVideo can do it if you run something that uses 240p. It's also a standard video mode available with Raspberry Pi, so it might be useful for some emulators.
Last time I checked, no MiSTer cores (outside of experimental) use the extra memory on that digital board.
There is no memory on the digital board. It leaves the second 40-pin GPIO header free though, so you could add a second RAM module.
Get an analog output board and call it a day. Ignore the noise. The convenience and output quality of the analog board is just fine.
The analog board only has 6-bit DACs per color channel though, going through an HDMI DAC would give you full 8 bits. Of course this only matters for those systems whose original video hardware can actually generate more than 6 bits per color channel - the two that I can think of are PSX and Minimig in AGA modes.
Fudoh wrote:
if you configure the MiSTer to output RGBS over the HDMI out
this is something I haven't been able to wrap my head around to this very day. I have absolutely no idea what the source is altering in a digital signal to make a DAC output composite sync instead of horizontal sync. True magic!
Not really - in the data stream there are basically two bits that indicate the current state of the HSync and VSync signals. To get composite sync, you just xor the original syncs and output that with the HSync bit. HDMI doesn't even abstract out the classic sync polarity, the bits just indicate that the corresponding signal is high or low and the sync polarity can change with the display mode - still matching the original CGA/EGA/VGA conventions from the 1980s.
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