I need help making a VGA MOD for my PS2 FAT

[Irome]

I take this opportunity to say hello to all the members of this forum, I'm new and I got here reading various interesting threads on video modding.

I've had this idea in my head for years now and would like to make it happen, I would like to take my old PS2 out of the closet to be able to use it comfortably in my room with a VGA monitor. "I state that I have already done this type of MOD on other Consoles, e.g. XBOX Classic, obtaining impressive results comparable to a Native VGA signal by extrapolating the RGB and Vsync and Hsync signals directly from the Console Motherboard. I would like to repeat the same thing on the PS2 but I know it's not easy at all.In the past I tried to build a circuit using a LM1881 Video Sync Separator to get V-Sync and H-Sync signals from the PS2's green signal, but I didn't get a satisfactory result, the quality of the picture was bad.

Mine is a PlayStation 2 FAT SCPH-50004, Motherboard GH-23 1-688-757-41 (V9): https://www.psdevwiki.com/ps2/Motherboards#GH-023

My goal is to build a VGA adapter, taking if possible the native analog signals from the PS2 motherboard, as close as possible to the outputs of the Graphics Synthesizer or Digital Video Encoder CXM4000R-T6, to get the best video quality, ( by quality I don't mean resolution, but a pure signal free from interference and distortion caused by other signals such as for example Sync On Green "SOG" or MacroVision's piracy protection jamming signals).

I've read various articles on this forum and other sites like this: https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av: ... 2_rgb_sync
where I understood that unlike the previous versions of the PS2 FAT, such as the SCPH-39000, in the SCPH-50000 the RGB and HV signals at the GS output are digital and cannot be taken directly from there, but only at the output of the DIGITAL VIDEO ENCODER.
I ask for an expert opinion on this matter, to understand where I should get the synchronization signals.

[jd213]

If the goal is the purest signal possible, then you might want to wait until the PixelFX HDMI mod becomes available (and then use that with an external HDMI to VGA adapter). But I guess that could be a while, especially if the initial run sells out immediately.

[BazookaBen]

This is unnecessary if your monitor supports Sync on Green. So, PS2 already can already put "VGA" without modification.

You just use a component cable with a 3 RCA>VGA adapter

[bobrocks95]

This would only be compatible with 480p games right? That's quite a small percentage of the library.

[DejahThoris]

This would only be compatible with 480p games right? That's quite a small percentage of the library.

Plenty of monitors with DSUB15 inputs support lower resolutions. Whether OP's does or not, I don't know, but I would hope if this is their aim they already know that it will handle them fine..

[Irome]

If the goal is the purest signal possible, then you might want to wait until the PixelFX HDMI mod becomes available (and then use that with an external HDMI to VGA adapter). But I guess that could be a while, especially if the initial run sells out immediately.

I had read a thread about a PS2HDMI prototype: https://twitter.com/chriz2600/status/10 ... _&ref_url= but I wasn't aware of that of the Pixel HDMI Mod project, if it will be available for purchase, it will be very interesting, in the meantime I would like to be able to build my own VGA adapter, I would already be more than satisfied if I could.

This is unnecessary if your monitor supports Sync on Green. So, PS2 already can already put "VGA" without modification.

You just use a component cable with a 3 RCA>VGA adapter

I know there are VGA monitors that support SOG, it's not quite accurate that the PS2 supports VGA, you need a Modchip or MC with FMCB to run Homebrew OPL or GS Mode Selector to force
VGA video encoding. my monitor supports SOG, I already have this adapter and I am not satisfied with the video quality of VGA with SOG, it has the same quality as Composite...
I've also bought converters like PS2 to HDMI, the quality is better than composite, but it's not sharp and still has the flicker and flicker of component, that's why I'm trying to get the separate syncs...

This would only be compatible with 480p games right? That's quite a small percentage of the library.

Plenty of monitors with DSUB15 inputs support lower resolutions. Whether OP's does or not, I don't know, but I would hope if this is their aim they already know that it will handle them fine..

This modification would be compatible with most games, using OPL's built-in GSM one can force standard VGA resolutions even if the games natively have lower resolutions.

[Irome]

I did a lot of research and studied the SCPH-50000 Service Manual: https://gamesx.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.p ... manual.pdf
Looking at the circuit board the only RGB output signals I can find come from the Digital Video Encoder, (the RGB Output signals going from the GS to the Encoder look digital, any 7 pin signal going into the Encoder...).
As far as the Csync, Vsync and Hsync signals are concerned, I found them both at the input and output of the encoder.

What I'm wondering at this point is whether the Encoder's input HV signals are digital or analog, and whether it's possible to take the input HV signals to build the VGA adapter?


I have a 74HC14 Hex Schmitt-Trigger Inverter IC to Buffer the Vsync and Hsync signals. Do you think I should Buffer these signals? Could someone help me or point me in the way of doing the circuit or maybe send me a link to a guide? I have already used this component on the Xbox OG, taking the sync signals directly from the GPU with excellent results, but I wouldn't know how to adapt the circuit I used on the XBOX to the PS2, not knowing the voltage values of the sync signals and not knowing what voltage the HV signals output from the 74HC14 should be. I ask for your help for this, any suggestion will be useful.

[bobrocks95]

This thread could be useful - if you have RGBS I think there's chips to split the sync signal into HV
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.p ... 96&start=0

Want to point out though that GSM 480p compatibility is quite low. Tons of games that use early SDK field rendering that breaks completely in 480p. Plenty more that crash on all FMVs or cut off a significant amount of picture data because the backbuffer and frontbuffer resolution differs greatly, and GSM tampers with the transfer between them.

If you thought your SoG adapter looked like composite I wonder if you were using GSM on a field rendered game and had half your resolution thrown out (it ditches one of the 480i fields with GSM on games that render this way).

[maxtherabbit]

if the quality of SoG looks like composite your setup is fucked

[BazookaBen]

I am not satisfied with the video quality of VGA with SOG, it has the same quality as Composite...

Something was wrong with how you had things set up. Sync on Green (RGsB) looks identical to typical "VGA" (RGBHV)

And for some GSM games that don't run at 480p, a potential workaround is to use 960i. That allows some games to work and look correct.

That said, it's true that tons of games won't work with either 480p or 960i and need to be output in 480i

[SGGG2]

VGA mod isn’t worth the trouble. Use component or SoG, they look identical in my experience.

[RocketBelt]

If you want a fun hardware mod project, go for it. If you want to play some PS2 games, better to get a good deinterlacer.

[Syntax]

You either get a 3000 series that has the SOG jumper and hope it works turning it off OR get a buffer like what is used in the dreamcast cable and buffer the 3 signals directly from the second last amp before green gets added to sync. The annoying thing is the mains power is super close to the video output, and can easily make the picture wavey or grainy if you don't shield things properly or space them correctly.

I have 1 PS2 fat ive set up with 2 vga ports, one HV and the other csync. HV one never gets used.

Unless you have monitors that do not support SOG just skip the whole mess. https://imgur.com/a/a1LzreC

http://www.dansprojects.com/ps2sync.html

[Irome]

This thread could be useful - if you have RGBS I think there's chips to split the sync signal into HV
https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.p ... 96&start=0

Want to point out though that GSM 480p compatibility is quite low. Tons of games that use early SDK field rendering that breaks completely in 480p. Plenty more that crash on all FMVs or cut off a significant amount of picture data because the backbuffer and frontbuffer resolution differs greatly, and GSM tampers with the transfer between them.

If you thought your SoG adapter looked like composite I wonder if you were using GSM on a field rendered game and had half your resolution thrown out (it ditches one of the 480i fields with GSM on games that render this way).

This thread is very interesting, even if I didn't understand exactly what is the purpose of deactivating or replacing the LUMA or COMPOSITE line with CSYNC.
For what reason was this done?
Would this MOD also be useful for VGA?
Wouldn't it be better to take the RGBHV signals directly at the output of the GS and DVE and build a separate buffer circuit without interfering with the motherboard circuit and leave the AV Multi OUT connector intact with its output signals?
What I think is useful for VGA is to remove the Csync at the encoder input and insert a switch so that you can use it with both the Component to PS2 TO HDMI converter and for VGA without SOG.

if the quality of SoG looks like composite your setup is fucked

I am not satisfied with the video quality of VGA with SOG, it has the same quality as Composite...

Something was wrong with how you had things set up. Sync on Green (RGsB) looks identical to typical "VGA" (RGBHV)

And for some GSM games that don't run at 480p, a potential workaround is to use 960i. That allows some games to work and look correct.

That said, it's true that tons of games won't work with either 480p or 960i and need to be output in 480i

The advice to use 960i/480i for games that don't run at 480p is very useful, I wasn't aware of this solution.
I don't know if it's a personal impression but there was no improvement in the video quality using SOG on my monitor, probably the cause could also be GSM, but still the image has some flickering and interference, it's not sharp, it could also be the 'interlacing...

VGA mod isn’t worth the trouble. Use component or SoG, they look identical in my experience.

Have any of you already done the VGA MOD? Have you done any comparisons to see if there is a real difference between RGBHV, VGA SOG and Component?

At this point I would like to make this attempt.

[Irome]

You either get a 3000 series that has the SOG jumper and hope it works turning it off OR get a buffer like what is used in the dreamcast cable and buffer the 6 signals directly from the second last amp before green gets added to sync. The annoying thing is the mains power is super close to the video output, and can easily make the picture wavey or grainy if you don't shield things properly or space them correctly.

I would like to attempt to take the 6 signals and buffer them, but I don't know how. Could you send me wiring diagram of the circuit to buffer the signals or could you tell me how to do it and what components to use? I'm very curious about this!

I have 1 PS2 fat ive set up with 2 vga ports, one HV and the other csync. HV one never gets used.

Why did you put 2 VGA ports in your PS2?
Which of HV or Csync looks better?

Unless you have monitors that do not support SOG just skip the whole mess. https://imgur.com/a/a1LzreC

http://www.dansprojects.com/ps2sync.html

Have you had the opportunity to compare your MOD with VGA SOG?

[Syntax]

It was awhile ago, I just copied the Dreamcast VGA buffer.
https://www.raphnet.net/electronique/dr ... dricas.gif

2 VGA ports for a dedicated HV one and Csync one.

HV was for some older PC CRT monitors that seemed to center better on HV than Csync.

The mod usually turns into a buzzy shaky mess for most that attempt, mine was fine with this buffer and proper shielding from the mains power source.
I found an old video of mine, Im pretty sure this rolling line was from having wires too close to the mains input wires. It was easier to capture in component than RGB.
I remember being in OPL and seeing the lower button pictures super buzzy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWzyv2APdh8

Difference between SOG and RGBS = 0.
I use RGBS for my Extron VGA matrix which was the whole reason to csync mod.

[Lord of Pirates]

The advice to use 960i/480i for games that don't run at 480p is very useful, I wasn't aware of this solution.
I don't know if it's a personal impression but there was no improvement in the video quality using SOG on my monitor, probably the cause could also be GSM, but still the image has some flickering and interference, it's not sharp, it could also be the 'interlacing...

What kind of monitor are you using? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in the thread.

[BazookaBen]

I don't know if it's a personal impression but there was no improvement in the video quality using SOG on my monitor, probably the cause could also be GSM, but still the image has some flickering and interference, it's not sharp, it could also be the 'interlacing...

If you saw any flickering etc., that wasn't because of SoG. That was down to the individual game and how well it works with GSM. A good portion of the library (maybe as high as 50%) has to be played at 480i, it won't work well with any mode in GSM.

So if you mod your system to have H/V instead of SoG, you're going to see the same results. You're still going to have to use GSM to 480p or 960i on a lot of games.

[strayan]

If you want to spend some money you could use this https://www.tindie.com/products/chipnet ... aystation/ and pair it with a GBS-C or other sync seperator.

This thread is bananas though.

[Guspaz]

Is there any advantage over doing internal VGA mods to a PS2 instead of just buying a decent component to VGA adapter? RGB output on the PS2 being higher quality turned out to be a myth caused by people comparing terrible quality component cables to good quality RGB cables.

[BazookaBen]

Is there any advantage over doing internal VGA mods to a PS2 instead of just buying a decent component to VGA adapter? RGB output on the PS2 being higher quality turned out to be a myth caused by people comparing terrible quality component cables to good quality RGB cables.

Well, you don't need to do mods to use VGA, first of all. Since VGA is RGB and PS2 outputs RGB. With Sync on Green in 480p+, meaning you can actually just use a component cable to hook up to your PC monitor

But to get PC resolutions, like 1280x1024 (I think this is actually 1280x960 with black bars, made from line-doubled 480p), 800x600, 640x480 @ 85hz, 640x960i etc, you need to be in RGB mode. In GS Mode selector they're listed under "VGA" modes.

So yeah, I don't know about differences in picture quality, but if you want access to those non-TV output modes, you need to be outputting RGB (aka "VGA"). Especially 960i, which is pretty useful for a portion of the PS2 library to get crash-free high resolution

[RocketBelt]

Is there any advantage over doing internal VGA mods to a PS2 instead of just buying a decent component to VGA adapter? RGB output on the PS2 being higher quality turned out to be a myth caused by people comparing terrible quality component cables to good quality RGB cables.

In my own experience the issue was brightness. The picture was so dark when using component cables I had to increase the brightness quite a bit which revealed the noise. This was on various TV's and video processors. Official Sony cable, btw, as well as other quality cables. I also found other people on the internet complaining about dark PS2 component. So I always used RGB instead, and complained on the internet about the PS2's dark, noisy component.

Much later I tried the PS2 with component on the OSSC and was surprised to find the picture had the correct brightness, so no need to boost the brightness, and therefore no noise. Picture quality equalling RGB. I've never found out why, but the only device I have that is able to interpret the PS2 component signal at the correct brightness is the OSSC. Maybe Marqs knows.

So then I got curious and tried increasing the brightness by the same amount I had been, but this time using the PS2 with RGB scart. And wouldn't you know it, the same noise was there on RGB scart as it was on component.

TLDR. Turn up the brightness and there is noise on PS2 both RGB and component.

[NewSchoolBoxer]

I agree with all the comments. Sometimes people post mods that really shouldn't exist. I think the gamesx mod you linked is one of them. My LCD and Plasma televisions and 1 of 2 of my LCD computer monitors accept sync on green. The link mentions the "popular" LM1881 sync stripper. It's popular because it's cheap and the EL1883 and ISL59885 are superior and should be used instead when you aren't trying to min your costs. If and only if you need RGBHV or RGBS for your display or capture card, take Composite or preferably Luma on the multiout, plug that into a better sync stripper. Nothing wrong with PS2 Component either.

In fact, I bought such a device from maxtherabbit two years ago who has posted in this thread. Uses ISL59885 and has a switch to choose between RGBHV and RGBS. Has 3.5mm audio out jack. I requested TTL versus 75 ohm sync. Nice product.

Syntax's comment is telling. The one example I saw of someone doing a PS1 pulling CSYNC off the hardware mod turned out to be a noisy mess and the mod instructions were suboptimal imo. You pull a video signal from a pin and route it all around, it's probably noisier than the CSYNC you get from a stripper.

I believe you that the LM1881 gave low quality video. You're saying you fed the green by, I presume, passive splitting. That's not great to do with Component or RGB and none of these sync strippers are designed to accept sync on green. Further LM1881 is power hungry and running the console hotter isn't great either.

Anyway, ISL59885 producing RGBS and RGBHV looked identical to the native 480p RGsB to me, as well as 480i RGB with Composite video as sync. Chip hate aside, the difference could instead be due to PCB design or lack of a 1% 75 ohm resistor between chip input and ground. Or your PS2 power supply caps (or power supply) need to be replaced since the sync stripper is powered off the 5V rail.

[Guspaz]

The LM1881 also doesn't output separate horizontal and vertical sync. You feed it composite video (which you'd need to appropriately actively buffer) and it outputs composite sync and vertical sync. If you want horizontal sync, you'd need to have extra sync processing after the LM1881 to produce the hsync.

The only reason anybody should ever be using these sort of sync strippers is if you have a very specific compatibility need.