Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th gen

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Taiyaki
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by Taiyaki »

People need to keep in mind that the newer high end models from 2021 and up are practically impossible to get to trigger ABL. For instance on the flagship A90J model from 2021, I've only ever seen ABL get triggered in a game when the user forced the setting to "Dolby Bright" (Dolby Dark is the setting preferred for accuracy) and was playing around in a bright level purposefully trying to stress test the TV. In pretty much 99.99% of cases (number I'm pulling out of a hat but it's to give you an idea of how strongly I believe this) this would not happen. The same should be true for LG's higher end models from the last couple of years.

Furthermore yes SDR is set to 100 nits max. OLED's will have zero issues keeping up with that, even with games that use a lot of bright graphics and a lot of near or full white screen scenes. Will not be a problem in the slightest.

OLED's have come a very very long way over the course of the last few years. The progress has been absolutely incredible. That being said I still wouldn't use one for a computer monitor (nor would I have used a Plasma back in the day either).
tongshadow
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by tongshadow »

nissling wrote:
tongshadow wrote:I have my LG C2 calibrated to 100~110nits, and I dont see any issues whatsoever with ABL. A small window and fullscreen white produce the same luminance levels. This is how I know when people use their OLEDs way above optimized levels, the screen noticeably dims when going from low to high APL levels.
To reach similar luminance levels with BFI@60hz, my OLED Pixel setting is 80~85.
This is not in line with what my test results showed. ABL was equally agressive regardless of what OLED Pixel brightness setting with full field maintaining aprox 55% of the light output as APL25. I always opt for 80-100 nits but the LG OLEDs shifts very strongly when comparing such test patterns. Even with the setting at 0 there was still no way to get rid of the ABL unless you disabled it through the service menu.

A friend of mine reviewed the 42C2 for the same magazine and had a very similar experience. For gaming and movies this is usually not an issue, but for desktop usage it quickly gets annoying.
Wouldnt that actually be ASBL/TPC, the one that dims the picture if the average APL stays the same for long, regardless of luminance levels?
https://tftcentral.co.uk/articles/oled- ... -explained

Tests conducted by TFT Central show that luminance stays the same from 1% windows all the way to 100%, at around 120nits, for regular ABL.
Image
Taiyaki wrote:That being said I still wouldn't use one for a computer monitor (nor would I have used a Plasma back in the day either).
Been using one as a monitor for the past 2 months and couldnt be happier. The price-performance ratio just cant be beaten, specially in the current awful offerings of the monitor market. OLED monitors are finally coming, but still too expensive compared to the C2. 2160p at 42" has similar pixel density to 1440p 27", which, in my eyes, it's just perfect for non-scaled text on Windows 10. Ionically, while the C2 is a TV first and monitor second, I think its capabilities and specs are more suited for PC users.
The burn-in concerns are too overblown, specially considering how LG panels have evolved alot since earlier generations.
nissling
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by nissling »

Taiyaki wrote:Furthermore yes SDR is set to 100 nits max. OLED's will have zero issues keeping up with that, even with games that use a lot of bright graphics and a lot of near or full white screen scenes. Will not be a problem in the slightest.
...Until it is a problem. Which it certainly still is on the LG OLEDs.

These are the results from the LG OLED Flex which I reviewed a few months back. All measurements are in cd/m² and the TV was properly calibrated (only adjusted the OLED pixel light). The peak brightness control was greyed out and couldn't be adjusted.

Image

It was essentially impossible to maintain a 100 nits peak brightness in SDR as the ABL is clearly just as agressive regardless of which light output you aim for. This is extremely evident and annoying for desktop usage, but pretty much never an issue for gaming. With HDR on desktop it's a freaking roller coaster with varying preaks from 100 to 700 nits.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by bobrocks95 »

nissling wrote:]You're missing the point. Lots of people use OLED TVs as computer monitors and for certain tasks, ABL will be abysmal. Going from 100 to 65 nits just by opening an Excel sheet or Word document is going to drive you nuts. The burn in protection will also dim static elements on screen which become extremely in Windows or macOS. You won't have this issue when playing video games or watching movies, but desktop is a completely different thing.
I've been using my 55" B9 as a computer monitor for over two years now. The only time I notice ABL kick in is when I have a bright window open for an extended period. Any big movement on the screen kicks it back off too. I do not notice anything weird with the taskbar in Windows, web browser up for extended periods, etc. Only concession is that I use dark mode for most everything like a sane human being, just like I do on every LED display I use.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by tongshadow »

bobrocks95 wrote:
nissling wrote:]You're missing the point. Lots of people use OLED TVs as computer monitors and for certain tasks, ABL will be abysmal. Going from 100 to 65 nits just by opening an Excel sheet or Word document is going to drive you nuts. The burn in protection will also dim static elements on screen which become extremely in Windows or macOS. You won't have this issue when playing video games or watching movies, but desktop is a completely different thing.
I've been using my 55" B9 as a computer monitor for over two years now. The only time I notice ABL kick in is when I have a bright window open for an extended period. Any big movement on the screen kicks it back off too. I do not notice anything weird with the taskbar in Windows, web browser up for extended periods, etc. Only concession is that I use dark mode for most everything like a sane human being, just like I do on every LED display I use.
Same experiences here. Energy saving and AI Brightness settings should be off as well.
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Guspaz
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by Guspaz »

Taiyaki wrote:People need to keep in mind that the newer high end models from 2021 and up are practically impossible to get to trigger ABL. For instance on the flagship A90J model from 2021
This is quite far from reality. From RTINGS data, with SDR content, the A90J goes down to 64% brightness with a 50% window and 38% brightness with a 100% window, and their "real scene" test hit 58% brightness. If used as a computer monitor, this is enough to result in a significant shift in brightness as you open/close/minimize/maximize/resize windows, or even just navigate around the web.

In HDR mode, it's much worse, where it will hit 23% brightness at 100% window, and this is relevant because many people use Windows with HDR enabled full-time, which means that all SDR applications are tonemapped by Windows into the HDR output, which means the HDR ABL applies to SDR content too. I've experienced this myself, as I use a QD-OLED monitor (not a TV, but still OLED), which had no ABL at all in SDR mode (because it's a monitor), but does have heavy ABL in HDR, meaning that simply clicking the HDR checkbox in Windows suddenly induces an extremely annoying ABL to SDR content.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by bobrocks95 »

What's the advantage of leaving Windows' fake HDR on for SDR content? I only turn it on for the rare game that requires it to be on for HDR to be enabled. Close out of the game and turn it back off...
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by tongshadow »

YouTube videos I suppose, but HDR videos are so rare that it's better to manually enable it instead of having it on all the time.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by fernan1234 »

Taiyaki wrote: Furthermore yes SDR is set to 100 nits max. OLED's will have zero issues keeping up with that, even with games that use a lot of bright graphics and a lot of near or full white screen scenes. Will not be a problem in the slightest.
Definitely true, these newer OLEDs will be fine with SDR content, as long as you like full sample-and-hold blur. Once you turn on BFI to get a bit better than plasma motion clarity and about halfway to CRT motion clarity, you'll be cutting through that 100-120nits brightness. Then again it's been clarified that plasmas have their own brightness limitations as well in spite of their nice motion clarity. All display types involve compromises still sadly.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by Konsolkongen »

While motion is generally good on a plasma it's worth mentioning that though it is not blurry like sample and hold, the actual image is a bit of a dittering mess when there is heavy movement. At least on Panasonic plasmas.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by tongshadow »

Every Plasma does that due to the way the Subfields generate a frame. Still less noticeable and preferable to sample and hold garbage, which is only useful for flicker-free viewing.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by Dochartaigh »

bobrocks95 wrote:I was always under the impression that SDR content was mastered for a peak 100 nits and anything a TV is giving you above that is only useful if you have it in a bright room or are enabling BFI or scanlines that darken the overall brightness?
I get how it might be mastered for that, and perhaps ONLY for viewing in a movie theatre or a pitch-black viewing/mastering booth or whatever they're called... but in real use, in a normally lit living room, I've always wondered about this, and how true it is anymore for a basic (modern 4K) TV in a living room like that (i.e. in a room with lights on, and/or windows)... I feel like many people could barely see the image being nice and vibrant with it only at 100 nits.

My CRT BVM's are calibrated for 100 Nits, and can appear not super bright unless I have my black-out window shades closed AND I've given my eyes at least 10+ minutes to adjust to the dark (not even kidding... I mean, it's not that bad, but if I want the searing eyeballs effect on bright scenes like I feel it should be... and on the opposite the room to be dark enough so I truly get those super inky blacks these old CRT's are known for... yeah, kinda has to be this way).

Had a problem with my most recent 4K modern LCD TV (~5 year old now, TCL 65R617) and took some reading with my X-Rite (during moderate daylight, room has partially light blocking curtains), and it reads 430 nits for SD content! That's with all standard settings - gets WAY, WAY brighter if I change the setting. My new TV, Hisense 75U8H, I wouldn't be surprised if it's like 500-600 nits in SD (as that's supposedly one of the brightest sets out now). None of these have the setting turned on where it reads ambient light and tunes accordingly fyi (which I find to make the image WAY to dark...).

The new MacBook's (like 2021? onward) are tuned to hit 500 nits on SD content... but don't know if that's so you can still see the screen when outside or whatever...
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Guspaz
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by Guspaz »

bobrocks95 wrote:What's the advantage of leaving Windows' fake HDR on for SDR content? I only turn it on for the rare game that requires it to be on for HDR to be enabled. Close out of the game and turn it back off...
I don't see any advantage, but trying to make the argument that AW3423DW owners should turn off HDR for the Windows desktop to avoid ABL has been futile, many of them just do it anyways. There's even a keyboard combo to instantly turn HDR on/off in modern Windows. WIN+ALT+B in Windows 11 stock, and Win10 if you've installed the xbox game bar. There are also third-party utilities to do that
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by tongshadow »

Some considerations I'd like to add for choosing Plasmas in 2023. Unlike CRT TVs, it goes beyond "input options", "size" and "brand". For Plasma TVs the software matters alot for picture quality. Look for models that support HDMI "PC Mode", either by editing the input name or a special menu. On my Samsung it looks much better on that mode, there's no processing/scaling and the color are better. My older Panasonic Viera lacks that option, so HDMI sources look compressed and not as sharp as they should.
Also, some HD models dont support 1920x1080 through DB15 or PC Mode, so before pulling the trigger, always refer to the user manual and see how the software treats signals and inputs.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by tongshadow »

So, I finally managed to snag a 1080p Plasma and well, there were some revelations... turns out the HD Plasma still looks better for 720p sources.
Spoiler
Image
The 1080p Plasma is closer to the 4k OLED and due to scaling we lose the crisp look seen on the HD set. Will the 1080p Plasma look better on actual 1080p sources? Absolutely, but in this topic I want to talk about 720p games! And for that case, an HD Plasma is still the more appropriate display choice.
And sure: "No shit that 720p doesnt scale well to a 1080p panel". But I wanted to bring this to light because I've seen people treating 1080p Plasmas as if they were some kind of holy grail that's always better than easier to find, and often cheaper, HD Plasma sets. Perhaps 1080p sets are more versatile because that resolution multiplies perfectly 240p and 480i/p, so a retro console+linedoubler/scaler would look amazing on this thing. 1080p is also still largely used even by the latest consoles, and for PC gaming it does work better for modern games. However, they're not as good as an HD set for 720p games.
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Guspaz
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by Guspaz »

Pick your poison, on the left you're losing lots of detail, on the right you're losing lots of sharpness.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by cfx »

Yeah, that severe detail loss on the left is totally unacceptable to me.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by bobrocks95 »

Which one also has the incorrect aspect ratio? Guessing the 720p panel since it's a 4:3 resolution with wider PAR?
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by tongshadow »

cfx wrote:Yeah, that severe detail loss on the left is totally unacceptable to me.
There's no "severe loss", the 768p sprite (this game runs at 1280x768) scales better into the 768p panel. Here's the raw sprite for reference, it looks just as sharp, pictures cant do justice:
Spoiler
Image
This is even looks like... putting scalines on a 240p sprite to achieve a super sharp CRT look, that this forum is definitely very fond of! Of course, we use a screendoor here instead because we have plasma cells instead of raster lines. A very minor softening effect can be seen around the pixels (due to minor internal scaling) but it's still more pleasing than the dirty bilinear scaling the 1080p/4k display do.
bobrocks95 wrote:Which one also has the incorrect aspect ratio? Guessing the 720p panel since it's a 4:3 resolution with wider PAR?
The shot was taken slightly off-axis, so the sprite looks a little thinner because of that.
The Xbox 360 can send a proper widescreen 1024x768 into the display, if we were to see that signal in its raw form, a circle would look like an egg. But because most 42" Plasma cells are retangular, this "egg" will now look like a proper circle on the display.
Think of CPS1 resolutions (384x224), the sprites look "squished/fater" but when displayed on the proper 4:3 they look normal. I know I shouldnt be comparing raster and pixed based displays, but the principle here is the same: Sending a distorted picture that looks correct on the display.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by cfx »

tongshadow wrote:
cfx wrote:Yeah, that severe detail loss on the left is totally unacceptable to me.
There's no "severe loss", the 768p sprite (this game runs at 1280x768) scales better into the 768p panel. Here's the raw sprite for reference, it looks just as sharp, pictures cant do justice:
There may not be any severe loss to you but I know what I see in your images, and also see in the one of the raw sprite by comparison.
tongshadow wrote:This is even looks like... putting scalines on a 240p sprite to achieve a super sharp CRT look, that this forum is definitely very fond of! Of course, we use a screendoor here instead because we have plasma cells instead of raster lines. A very minor softening effect can be seen around the pixels (due to minor internal scaling) but it's still more pleasing than the dirty bilinear scaling the 1080p/4k display do.
And I disagree 100%; the 1080p plasma looks superior without any question in your images.

It doesn't matter. You have what you're happy with, and I don't buy old used displays so I'm not going to be buying a plasma at this point. Where I live I couldn't buy an old plasma even if I wanted one. I'm also not going to buy any monitor or TV specifically just to use with PS3, a console I like but don't even have that many games for, especially when I'm perfectly happy with what it looks like on my 1080 LCDs.

At least use the terminology correctly. The sub-1080P plasmas aren't HD. HD means 1080P at this point, period, and using the term for 720/768 panels is just confusing and deceptive. Some marketing nonsense used to call those "HD ready" and 1080 "full HD"; that was stupid enough but at least use that terminology if nothing else.
Lord of Pirates
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by Lord of Pirates »

I'd take a good later model plasma over an early one any day. How's the overscan on your older Samsung?
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by NewSchoolBoxer »

I see your nits, BFI and APL bullying and counter with Plasmas are better for 1st to 6th gen, if you get the Panasonic TH-42PHD5, TH-50PHD5, TH-42PHW5 or TH50PHW5 from the early 2000s. I bought the first one used for $50. Check out the datasheet. Those models accepts all analog inputs, including SNES and PS2 RGB over either its VGA or BNC inputs and as a consumer model! PS2 480p sync on green works too. I haven't tried other consoles or composite video or luma as sync.

You do need a remote to change video inputs and switch between 16:9 and 4:3 and has menu to view hours of use. We're talking about a set released in the US that accepts retro video game console video in any analog format or resolution you want to throw at it, including PAL and SECAM. My set came with five RCA to BNC adapters too.

Weakness of no DVI or HDMI inputs, no 1080p or above so isn't going to replace the OLED you have. I'm not sure if the DVI-D interface board specified in the datasheet really exists. I found a Sony Plasma datasheet that also showed SD RGB, NTSC, PAL and SECAM support but didn't save it.

I've been wanting to make a ghetto website showing budget display that are good enough for most people. Plasma look is close enough to CRT for my purposes. Lack of scanlines but I can still see differentiated pixels versus LCD pixel smoothing. Not sure about input lag but I found no issues with what games I played.

Oh and per cfx, 720p/1080i are HD to me. Was always referred to as such and use tri-level sync unlike SD and ED. But yeah, HD sets that didn't have 1080p were lower tier options. I paid extra for a 1080p LCD in 2009 and was glorious with Xbox 360.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by tongshadow »

cfx wrote:It doesn't matter. You have what you're happy with, and I don't buy old used displays so I'm not going to be buying a plasma at this point. Where I live I couldn't buy an old plasma even if I wanted one. I'm also not going to buy any monitor or TV specifically just to use with PS3, a console I like but don't even have that many games for, especially when I'm perfectly happy with what it looks like on my 1080 LCDs.
I respect that, many are perfectly happy plugging retro consoles straight into their flat panels as well.
Lord of Pirates wrote:I'd take a good later model plasma over an early one any day. How's the overscan on your older Samsung?
I gave the impression the Samsung was older, but it's actually a 2012 model, the 1080p Panasonic is from 2010 (G13 series). The Samsung has better software and I never had issues with over/underscanning, the picture always fits perfectly. It also has aged better because despite being an HD panel it accepts and processes 1080p, internal downscaling will happen of course. Also it does 4:4:4 Chroma Subsampling on HDMI inputs, while the Panasonic doesnt! This feature was implemented on 2012 models, and onwards, it's called "1080p Pure Direct". One more thing important to mention is that in a baffling decision made by Panasonic, 1920x1080 is NOT accepted through VGA.
NewSchoolBoxer wrote:I see your nits, BFI and APL bullying and counter with Plasmas are better for 1st to 6th gen, if you get the Panasonic TH-42PHD5, TH-50PHD5, TH-42PHW5 or TH50PHW5 from the early 2000s. I bought the first one used for $50. Check out the datasheet. Those models accepts all analog inputs, including SNES and PS2 RGB over either its VGA or BNC inputs and as a consumer model! PS2 480p sync on green works too. I haven't tried other consoles or composite video or luma as sync.

You do need a remote to change video inputs and switch between 16:9 and 4:3 and has menu to view hours of use. We're talking about a set released in the US that accepts retro video game console video in any analog format or resolution you want to throw at it, including PAL and SECAM. My set came with five RCA to BNC adapters too.
I have a 2008 HD Panasonic Plasma and it's pretty amazing how it processes 480i/480p sources. I'd dare to say it looks just as good as the DVDO VP30. However, the newer 2010 model doesnt look anywhere as good, maybe Panasonic changed the scaling engine or something. So, if the intent is to use a Plasma for 6th gen it's essential to test 480i/480p before pulling the trigger because the scaling quality varies between brands and even models from the same brand.
Last edited by tongshadow on Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by cfx »

I think all Panasonics had that VGA limitation though maybe some didn't?

I remember trying to help someone set up a Pansonic plasma with their PC, and maybe this was a quirk of their particular graphics card or my own failing to understand something, but I had an issue getting the display to work the way you'd want with PC, to be at native resolution and also not overscan.

The fact the 720/768 plasmas accept 1080 signals is why they were called HD ready. They were not HD, no matter how many times you insist on saying so.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by bobrocks95 »

NewSchoolBoxer wrote:Weakness of no DVI or HDMI inputs, no 1080p or above so isn't going to replace the OLED you have. I'm not sure if the DVI-D interface board specified in the datasheet really exists.
They exist, I bought one and added it to my TH-42PWD8, Panasonic's last professional 854x480 set. It accepts up to 720p/1080i. The display's been in my closet since I got an OLED though lol
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by Lord of Pirates »

tongshadow wrote:I gave the impression the Samsung was older, but it's actually a 2012 model, the 1080p Panasonic is from 2010 (G13 series). The Samsung has better software and I never had issues with over/underscanning, the picture always fits perfectly. It also has aged better because despite being an HD panel it accepts and processes 1080p, internal downscaling will happen of course. Also it does 4:4:4 Chroma Subsampling on HDMI inputs, while the Panasonic doesnt! This feature was implemented on 2012 models, and onwards, it's called "1080p Pure Direct". One more thing important to mention is that in a baffling decision made by Panasonic, 1920x1080 is NOT accepted through VGA.
My mistake, you mentioned it being a later model in your first post and I missed it. I replaced an older Panasonic (don't remember the model) with the TC-P50ST50 and it was a great improvement but overscan is still an issue no matter the setting. It makes text only modes impossible to use. Desktop use is fine if you compensate with GPU underscan controls.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by H6rdc0re »

As someone who has owned a still owns a couple of Plasma TVs and also owns a couple of OLED TVs I can tell you this. Without BFI used on an OLED then Plasma easily beats it in motion, no contest. However when using the proper BFI setting on an OLED the Plasma has no chance at all. I never seen any display that comes as close to CRT motion as the LG CX does with BFI set to high with matched content (60fps/60Hz or 120fps/120Hz).

A couple of false claims in this thread. Scaling on a Plasma is generally no better than on an OLED as both are fixed pixel displays so it depends on the scaler and scaling algorithm used. Even with BFI used OLED still goes much brighter than Plasma which even on a brand new Plasma screen is very hard to even get over 120cd/m2 on a 100% window. With these used Plasma screens I doubt you go over 100cd/m2 on a 100% window. Input lag on older panels like Plasma also is a lot higher because of their slow and limited display processing.

Running 120Hz BFI only results in something like 12-13ms input lag. So still very low. 60Hz BFI is higher with something like 26-27ms of input lag.
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by tongshadow »

Lord of Pirates wrote:
tongshadow wrote:I gave the impression the Samsung was older, but it's actually a 2012 model, the 1080p Panasonic is from 2010 (G13 series). The Samsung has better software and I never had issues with over/underscanning, the picture always fits perfectly. It also has aged better because despite being an HD panel it accepts and processes 1080p, internal downscaling will happen of course. Also it does 4:4:4 Chroma Subsampling on HDMI inputs, while the Panasonic doesnt! This feature was implemented on 2012 models, and onwards, it's called "1080p Pure Direct". One more thing important to mention is that in a baffling decision made by Panasonic, 1920x1080 is NOT accepted through VGA.
My mistake, you mentioned it being a later model in your first post and I missed it. I replaced an older Panasonic (don't remember the model) with the TC-P50ST50 and it was a great improvement but overscan is still an issue no matter the setting. It makes text only modes impossible to use. Desktop use is fine if you compensate with GPU underscan controls.
That's strange, the ST50 is one of the later models so it should have plenty of options for proper overscan controls. My P50V20 scales perfectly 1080p from a PC source, here's what a review says about your display:
[Overscanning on HDMI - 0% with [16:9 Overscan] set to “Off“]
https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panason ... 041899.htm
H6rdc0re wrote:As someone who has owned a still owns a couple of Plasma TVs and also owns a couple of OLED TVs I can tell you this. Without BFI used on an OLED then Plasma easily beats it in motion, no contest. However when using the proper BFI setting on an OLED the Plasma has no chance at all. I never seen any display that comes as close to CRT motion as the LG CX does with BFI set to high with matched content (60fps/60Hz or 120fps/120Hz).

A couple of false claims in this thread. Scaling on a Plasma is generally no better than on an OLED as both are fixed pixel displays so it depends on the scaler and scaling algorithm used. Even with BFI used OLED still goes much brighter than Plasma which even on a brand new Plasma screen is very hard to even get over 120cd/m2 on a 100% window. With these used Plasma screens I doubt you go over 100cd/m2 on a 100% window. Input lag on older panels like Plasma also is a lot higher because of their slow and limited display processing.

Running 120Hz BFI only results in something like 12-13ms input lag. So still very low. 60Hz BFI is higher with something like 26-27ms of input lag.
100% Fullscreen white is an useless metric that doesnt reflect on real world usage or content, and OLEDs are also nothing to brag about when compared to the newest MiniLED panels. When viewing actual content in SDR, a proper calibrated Plasma doesnt lose to an OLED. Some of the later Plasmas were even capable of reaching luminance levels as high as 220nits:
https://www.avforums.com/reviews/samsun ... eview.544/
This is more than enough for SDR content and not far from an OLED's performance (without BFI). With BFI luminance is roughly reduced in half, depending on the model.

I'm aware that the CX has the best BFI implementation and it's probably the best option for 4k/60~120hz sources but I still think HD Plasmas are better for 720p/60 sources, specially when you consider the price. And still hold up pretty well if they can accept 1080p signals.

Plasma input lag varies alot between models and brands, some models, like Panasonic's, can go as low as 16ms, while others, LG models in particular, can indeed reach unplayable 100ms of input lag.
https://www.avforums.com/reviews/panaso ... eview.131/
https://www.avforums.com/reviews/lg-pz9 ... eview.201/
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Konsolkongen
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by Konsolkongen »

I used to own a 50" Panny ST50. You could disable overscan on it for sure. But there could be weird regional differences perhaps?
Taiyaki
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Re: Why Plasma HDTVs are better than modern 4k OLEDs for 7th

Post by Taiyaki »

Plasma's did degrade pretty fast in terms of their brightness output I found. I kept my Panasonic VT50 for almost 8 years (I had a VT25 back in the day before it), but by year 4 or so I noticed the peak brightness capabilities to have diminished quite a bit (I ended up having to push it up for the later years). I think there's very little chance that a used Plasma today could in any way shape or form output the levels of brightness a new high end OLED would be capable of (the newest high end OLED's do closer 180cd/m2), in many cases OLED would possibly win even with BFI enabled.

More importantly I'd have to ask, unless you play in a very bright room would that even matter? For SDR there's a point where enough is enough, and as a user who tends to try and play in a darker room I would not want it beyond the standard calibration goal of 100 nits brightness for SDR anyway.

H6rdc0re made some good points that counter a lot of the arguments this thread made as to why Plasma is superior. I love Plasma, it was a wonderful technology that ruled for quite a long time (unanimously for movies). I'm just not sure it's about to turn into the CRT's of Gen 7 where it's without question the superior way to run those consoles. The longevity and durability of the technology was not so great (with burn in being the most common issue most people will find on used sets). Maybe for those who kept a unit with little use there might be some value in saving it for GEN 7 but for the bulk of people this isn't going to be a viable option I think.
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