Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

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Legi0n
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Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Legi0n »

I see 3 brands that stand out as being the best on amazon.ca ... Kaico Mcbazel and linkfor ...

Which brand should I get ? Does it matter ? Kaico is like $70 more expensive than Mcbazel...Should I save 70 bucks and buy the Mcbazel ?

I already have a pre-assembled GBS-C unit that I bought from aliexpress. Haven't unboxed it yet ....

Which upscaler should I get for Wii+PS2 ?

is Retrotink 5X-Pro really worth it ? any upcoming upscalers that are cheap ?
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Guspaz
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Guspaz »

VGPerfection is the only OSSC vendor that is reputable. Wait until they get them back in stock. The Amazon sellers are marking poorly made ones way up.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by bobrocks95 »

If you want to use the PS2 a lot the Retrotink 5X would be worth the upgrade for its deinterlacing capabilities. PS2 is effectively a 480i only console (at least it's easier to think of it that way).

Nothing else on the horizon that will be cheap. The OSSC and RT5X fill their marget segments pretty nicely- anything else announced, in development, or upcoming is going to be higher-end and more expensive than the 5X (Retrotink 4K, OSSC Pro, PixelFX Morph).

Continuing FPGA shortages means we're not getting anything new for quite a while anyways.
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Steven
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Steven »

Only ever buy the VGP OSSC. Kaico is a shit company that steals non-open source designs from other companies and sells them as their own.

For PS2 you need a deinterlacer and the bob deinterlace on the OSSC is kind of terrible. I have heard the GBS-C AIO is actually one of the best for PS2, but I have never used it. Might as well try the one you have and see how it is.
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kitty666cats
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by kitty666cats »

The 3rd party ones are completely fine
fernan1234
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by fernan1234 »

Yeah the 3rd party ones are fine. At the same time I wouldn't really go for an OSSC at this point with the 5X being vastly superior, unless we're talking about very niche use cases that the OSSC may still cover more effectively (probably just some retro PCs?). I'd just go for a 5X or wait for one of the upcoming scalers.

And the GBS is indeed a great option for 480i systems, so you may just want to unbox yours and try them out with your Wii and PS2 before deciding if you need something more advanced.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Steven »

OSSC has VGA input for use with the glorious Dreamcast. RT5X does not, but you can get that converter to turn that one weird connector that nobody outside of Europe has ever seen into VGA.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by ldeveraux »

Steven wrote:OSSC has VGA input for use with the glorious Dreamcast. RT5X does not, but you can get that converter to turn that one weird connector that nobody outside of Europe has ever seen into VGA.
I assume you're joking about SCART as many of us still use it religiously.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Steven wrote:OSSC has VGA input for use with the glorious Dreamcast. RT5X does not, but you can get that converter to turn that one weird connector that nobody outside of Europe has ever seen into VGA.
The lack of LPF on the VGA input actually made Dreamcast look a bit bad on the OSSC for me. It's not quite a proper input without it. Eventually I got a VGA adapter that can convert to RGBS, fed through my Extron and out to (unfortunately) SCART.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by fernan1234 »

The Morph was supposed to spare us from all this with both BNC and D-Sub input options. Mike also toyed with our hearts at one point talking about a potential D-Sub version of the 5X that never happened. Maybe the Tink 4K will finally do the right thing.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Konsolkongen »

You guys might not, since you are american and got to the RGB party late, but a huge number of people in other countries have used scart cables for their RGB consoles for decades. Not having such an input would be a mistake.

The Morph is a weird design, but since it relies on their modular switch I guess it can be excused for not having it directly.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Konsolkongen wrote:You guys might not, since you are american and got to the RGB party late, but a huge number of people in other countries have used scart cables for their RGB consoles for decades. Not having such an input would be a mistake.

The Morph is a weird design, but since it relies on their modular switch I guess it can be excused for not having it directly.
In Japan where most all of the old consoles you'll be plugging into one are originally from they're not getting any of their RGB inputs covered by SCART either. Options are always good, though if you're only putting one RGB input and a significant number of users are going to have to use some sort of conversion cable or adapter anyways, maybe go with one that has some sort of locking mechanism on the physical connector...
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Konsolkongen
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Konsolkongen »

bobrocks95 wrote: In Japan where most all of the old consoles you'll be plugging into one are originally from they're not getting any of their RGB inputs covered by SCART either. Options are always good, though if you're only putting one RGB input and a significant number of users are going to have to use some sort of conversion cable or adapter anyways, maybe go with one that has some sort of locking mechanism on the physical connector...
I never said that scart should be the only option. I’m all for these devices having every kind of input. They can have composite and s-video too for all I care. I would never use those personally, but as long as they don’t drastically increase the cost of the device why should I be bothered if it has a feature that might benefit others?

The whole scart must die thing that some users preach is silly. Are they seriously suggesting that we spend hundreds of euros to replace our cables with another standard for no gain in picture quality, just because they don’t like the connector? :mrgreen:
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by fernan1234 »

I spent "hundreds" of USD replacing all the SCART cables I had, and it was totally worth it. A one time expense for years of more comfortable use and easier access to pro-grade gear and a greater variety of adapters while enjoying a superior connector.

Not saying that anyone has to do the same thing, but the more that people opt for a better standard the better off the hobby can be for all, so I'm all for the anti-SCART preaching.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Sumez »

I've been slowly replacing all my SCART connectors with d-sub as well, which has been quite a relief once actually done. The more links you have in a setup all using SCART connectors, the more fragile it feels, and don't get me started on trying to plug in a SCART plug that's on the back of something while being unable to see it :P

That said, I wouldn't recommend anyone else going through that massive bother, it's really much easier to just stick to readily available SCART cables.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by ldeveraux »

fernan1234 wrote:I spent "hundreds" of USD replacing all the SCART cables I had, and it was totally worth it. A one time expense for years of more comfortable use and easier access to pro-grade gear and a greater variety of adapters while enjoying a superior connector.

Not saying that anyone has to do the same thing, but the more that people opt for a better standard the better off the hobby can be for all, so I'm all for the anti-SCART preaching.
Nonsense. I already spent "hundreds" on SCART cables years ago because it was the standard for my ~15 consoles that support it. Why would I spend "hundreds" more for whatever you consider 'more comfortable use'? Why would I need a greater variety of adapters when I already have a fully working SCART system? I already have RGB, is that output somehow going to get better?
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by fernan1234 »

ldeveraux wrote:Nonsense. I already spent "hundreds" on SCART cables years ago because it was the standard for my ~15 consoles that support it. Why would I spend "hundreds" more for whatever you consider 'more comfortable use'? Why would I need a greater variety of adapters when I already have a fully working SCART system? I already have RGB, is that output somehow going to get better?
You don't!

The point was that it can be and has been worth it for many people, not that you in particular need or have to do the same.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by ldeveraux »

fernan1234 wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:Nonsense. I already spent "hundreds" on SCART cables years ago because it was the standard for my ~15 consoles that support it. Why would I spend "hundreds" more for whatever you consider 'more comfortable use'? Why would I need a greater variety of adapters when I already have a fully working SCART system? I already have RGB, is that output somehow going to get better?
You don't!

The point was that it can be and has been worth it for many people, not that you in particular need or have to do the same.
If I was starting over today, I'd probably go with component because it's overall cheaper and certainly more ubiquitous. BNC seems just as niche as SCART IMO. But what benefit does anyone gain by ditching SCART for the alternative? That's what you haven't explained, what makes it 'worth it'?
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Konsolkongen »

Sumez wrote:...and don't get me started on trying to plug in a SCART plug that's on the back of something while being unable to see it :P
You're not gonna have an easier time doing that with d-sub. I would argue that is much more annoying since the scart cable at least has the pointy bit that tells you the orientation.

D-sub is also complete garbage unless you get it tightened really well, if it's ever so slightly loose you'll get very noticeable ghosting in the image. For permanent installations they are great, but for plug and play use they don't even compare to the convenience of scart.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Deubeul »

Konsolkongen wrote:
Sumez wrote:...and don't get me started on trying to plug in a SCART plug that's on the back of something while being unable to see it :P
You're not gonna have an easier time doing that with d-sub. I would argue that is much more annoying since the scart cable at least has the pointy bit that tells you the orientation.
That.

35 years of blind scart plugging made my fingers so agile and skillfull that it benefits many other aspects of my life.

With scart you just have to "feel" the TV's connector with one finger and insert the plug with the others, it's super easy, while blindly plug a dsub is a nightmare.

Konsolkongen wrote:
D-sub is also complete garbage unless you get it tightened really well, if it's ever so slightly loose you'll get very noticeable ghosting in the image. For permanent installations they are great, but for plug and play use they don't even compare to the convenience of scart.
That too.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Konsolkongen wrote:D-sub is also complete garbage unless you get it tightened really well, if it's ever so slightly loose you'll get very noticeable ghosting in the image. For permanent installations they are great, but for plug and play use they don't even compare to the convenience of scart.
Never had a D-Sub in all my years of computer usage that required screwing in. I mean I'm gonna do it because that's what secures the connector, but for a quick test I've never had to. I have had my 1 SCART connector for my OSSC come loose countless times though!
ldeveraux wrote:If I was starting over today, I'd probably go with component because it's overall cheaper and certainly more ubiquitous. BNC seems just as niche as SCART IMO. But what benefit does anyone gain by ditching SCART for the alternative? That's what you haven't explained, what makes it 'worth it'?
The price of a gscartsw alone made it worth it for me. SCART being a consumer standard means not a lot of quality switchers for it. D-Sub or BNC open up tons of professional grade options in much sleeker (bit less for BNC), rack-mountable form factors for much less money.

It's not like you throw all your SCART cables away, you resell them at a slight loss. If they're quality people will gladly pay without having to wait on Retro-Access, or take a slight discount off a retrogamingcables unit. If they're original European OEM SCART cables you've probably even got weird cable collectors willing to pay even more.

Not saying anybody has to do anything, but I will outright say it's kinda ridiculous that the only RGB input on the Retrotink 5x is the SCART connector (unless the RCA inputs can take RGB and I didn't know it), not to mention it being backwards. If there is going to be a single connector it needs to be more mechanically robust because sorry guys, SCART is loose, bulky, and has no locking mechanism. I'm not even saying it's gotta have MY preferred input on there, just anything that I don't have to check all the time like my OSSC's SCART.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by maxtherabbit »

Konsolkongen wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote: In Japan where most all of the old consoles you'll be plugging into one are originally from they're not getting any of their RGB inputs covered by SCART either. Options are always good, though if you're only putting one RGB input and a significant number of users are going to have to use some sort of conversion cable or adapter anyways, maybe go with one that has some sort of locking mechanism on the physical connector...
I never said that scart should be the only option. I’m all for these devices having every kind of input. They can have composite and s-video too for all I care. I would never use those personally, but as long as they don’t drastically increase the cost of the device why should I be bothered if it has a feature that might benefit others?

The whole scart must die thing that some users preach is silly. Are they seriously suggesting that we spend hundreds of euros to replace our cables with another standard for no gain in picture quality, just because they don’t like the connector? :mrgreen:
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by fernan1234 »

bobrocks95 wrote:It's not like you throw all your SCART cables away, you resell them at a slight loss. If they're quality people will gladly pay without having to wait on Retro-Access, or take a slight discount off a retrogamingcables unit. If they're original European OEM SCART cables you've probably even got weird cable collectors willing to pay even more.
Exactly. I actually got most of my money back when I resold all of my retro-access SCART cables a few years ago. They're still painfully slow to ship cables so there's always someone happy to buy them for basically the same price even if used.

bobrocks95 wrote: but I will outright say it's kinda ridiculous that the only RGB input on the Retrotink 5x is the SCART connector (unless the RCA inputs can take RGB and I didn't know it), not to mention it being backwards.

Yep, this is what it comes down to. It's not about how anyone is wrong for using SCART, or that SCART is really 100% bad and has no good points (a single connector for both video and audio is indeed convenient, as long as everything is shielded well). The issue is when it becomes the main standard for our retro niche hobby and incentivizes products like the 5X or the OSSC to default to it for RGB input (the OSSC's "VGA" input has the filter issue, and the 3 RCA route is awkward), resulting in these devices having to deal with drawbacks or compromises. That's why this whole side-topic arouse as part of the conversation on the OSSC.

At the end of the day none of these analogue connector options is perfect, but you can easily make a pros and cons list and find that one will be much better especially for product designs than the other.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Sumez »

Deubeul wrote: That.

35 years of blind scart plugging made my fingers so agile and skillfull that it benefits many other aspects of my life.

With scart you just have to "feel" the TV's connector with one finger and insert the plug with the others, it's super easy, while blindly plug a dsub is a nightmare.
35 years of blind scart plugging makes me completely unable to believe those claims lol. It's probably the worst connector I've ever had to deal with.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

On my USA region Dreamcast console, I use a Toro box with a Euro Scart cable fed into a Retrotink 5X -- works like a charm (regardless if 15.7kHz scart mode or vga mode is selected on the Toro box though). For some folks, this particular setup would be more expensive (but totally worth it in the end).

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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Konsolkongen »

fernan1234 wrote: Yep, this is what it comes down to. It's not about how anyone is wrong for using SCART, or that SCART is really 100% bad and has no good points (a single connector for both video and audio is indeed convenient, as long as everything is shielded well). The issue is when it becomes the main standard for our retro niche hobby and incentivizes products like the 5X or the OSSC to default to it for RGB input (the OSSC's "VGA" input has the filter issue, and the 3 RCA route is awkward), resulting in these devices having to deal with drawbacks or compromises. That's why this whole side-topic arouse as part of the conversation on the OSSC.

At the end of the day none of these analogue connector options is perfect, but you can easily make a pros and cons list and find that one will be much better especially for product designs than the other.
Why should these upscaling devices only have one input? Why not support all standards so most users individual needs are covered? You don't seem to acknowledge that there are many more users who have only scart than there are people with custom VGA/BNC/component cables. Not everyone is looking to have a permanent setup either, some just want to plug in whatever console they are using right now.
Scart isn't becoming a standard for RGB, it always was.

In my setup everything goes through an Extron RGBHV matrix. I made female scart to BNC adapters, and I haven't had much issue with the scart cables loosening, but your millage may vary. I could probably lift the OSSC by the scart cable, it's really tight. Difference in connector quality and all that :)
I would be happy enough with just a single VGA or BNC input on my upscaling device, but like I said this won't apply to most peoples use cases.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by fernan1234 »

Konsolkongen wrote:Why should these upscaling devices only have one input? Why not support all standards so most users individual needs are covered? You don't seem to acknowledge that there are many more users who have only scart than there are people with custom VGA/BNC/component cables.
I wish they had more than one input for RGB! I can understand design and cost-related issues getting in the way, leading upscalers to default to the connector that the majority uses.

There's no need to acknowledge that most people use SCART for their RGB needs still, that's a well known fact. The hope is that this could change over time, for the benefit of all in the long run, but I know this is unlikely. Change is hard.

If I were in charge of a 5X/OSSC revision or say the Tink-4K and OSSC Pro, I'd probably keep SCART but at the same time add two more RCA plugs in between R/R-Y, G, B/B-Y and the L R audio jacks, for CS/H and V sync. That wouldn't add much more size on the board/device while giving D-Sub/BNC users the option to use them with the simple addition of 5 female BNC to male RCA adapters.

Alternatively, if I wanted the board/device to be as space-efficient as possible, I'd go with a single D-Sub port that can do it all, composite, s-video, YPbPr, RGBS, RGsB, RGBHV, etc when paired with the appropriate pigtail/adapter. SCART users simply need a female SCART to D-Sub pigtail, and BNC users a BNC to D-Sub cable which they probably already have anyway. That's what Analogue for instance did for the analogue output on the Nt Mini, and it works really well.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by orange808 »

Five BNC inputs and two RCA plugs would cover anything analog. That's my preference. Unfortunately, that would be expensive, because you really need a nice, solid, metal, rack-sized case to properly accommodate the plugs. BNC cables are heavy. You need a heavy and sturdy case that mounts up properly. That's what the video professionals invented for pro gear where reliability and flexibility matters. That's what works.

Most people are extremely price sensitive, so I'm not going to get what I want. I'm a niche inside of a niche.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by Deubeul »

Sumez wrote:
Deubeul wrote: That.

35 years of blind scart plugging made my fingers so agile and skillfull that it benefits many other aspects of my life.

With scart you just have to "feel" the TV's connector with one finger and insert the plug with the others, it's super easy, while blindly plug a dsub is a nightmare.
35 years of blind scart plugging makes me completely unable to believe those claims lol. It's probably the worst connector I've ever had to deal with.
I really find it easy actually, but to be honnest I would be doubtfull too if you told me the same for D-sub ^^


This Shart x D-shub war, besides all the technical and empirical arguments about quality/price/availability/convenience/whatever really resume to one thing: personnal preference based on one's own story.

Being an emotional guy, having grown in France, when I see a scart cable my mind automatically and unconsciously associates it with videogames, VHS, pleasure, fun.

when I see a D-sub cable, I see work.

No argument will ever change that.
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Re: Which brand of OSSC should I purchase ?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Konsolkongen wrote:I could probably lift the OSSC by the scart cable, it's really tight. Difference in connector quality and all that :)
You need to tell Retro-Access where your SCART connector came from, because mine comes loose if I don't hold the OSSC down when flicking the power switch. I'm at the point where I push on it every time I use it just to make sure it hasn't popped out.

Of course if SCART was designed with a locking mechanism this never would have happened :wink:
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