NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = Solid

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GeorgeSpinner
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NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = Solid

Post by GeorgeSpinner »

Hi.

I am attempting in install an NESRGB v4 into my NES Front Loader.

The console seems to be in good, working, order. I play it regularly.

I few days ago, I did a 2600RGB and it went very well.

A little while ago, I installed an NESRGB v2 in my Famicom AV. It also went very well.

I'm having trouble with my Front Loader and NESRGB v4.

LED 7 is flashing - meaning there is an issue with the reset circuit.

I followed all the instructions for v4 (https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/NESRGB40.html), including changing the reset circuit capacitor.

I installed the original capacitor in parallel with the new 220n capacitor and the result is exactly the same.

I set all of the jumpers appropriately, and have manually selected a single palette by bridging 3L and GND.

LED 0 is solid - meaning the NESRGB is not active.

The NES's original composite video output still works fine.

Although I took care in all my soldering, I removed all of the wires to rule out any type of short or unintended cross connection. The result was the same.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them.

Thanks.

Edit: corrected value of new capacitor
Last edited by GeorgeSpinner on Tue Nov 22, 2022 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Lopenator »

Pictures of install
GeorgeSpinner
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by GeorgeSpinner »

https://ibb.co/album/HDb5nf

This album should have images of the install.

The current state is with all wires removed.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Lopenator »

GeorgeSpinner wrote:https://ibb.co/album/HDb5nf

This album should have images of the install.

The current state is with all wires removed.
You tried it with both j3 opened and closed I noticed you had both options done.

Just to clarify, you tried the nesrgb with all the "features" disabled? Try it with with the barebones and see if it works.
GeorgeSpinner
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by GeorgeSpinner »

I did try it with all the features disabled.

I've tried every conceivable combination that I can think of.

I closed j3 because I don't have the external regulator hooked up at the moment.

I only want the bare bones functionality.

I don't need palettes or in-game reset.

I would just like the front loader with RGB.
GeorgeSpinner
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by GeorgeSpinner »

I have made progress on my front loader NESRGB V4 install.

It doesn't make much sense to me, but I verified the solution and have confirmed the what allowed the progress to be made.

I was uninstalling the RGB mod (since it did not work). During the course of the uninstall, I removed the 220n capacitor. I did not have the stock 100n capacitor, so I installed the 100NJ100 plastic capacitor that came with the 2600rgb install kit (it was not needed with the 4 switch in was modding).

I decided to test that I installed the capacitor correctly by using the composite video cable. I was alarmed to see a black and white partial image on my screen. I double checked my cap install and it was good. It then occurred to be that perhaps the NESRGB was working because I remembered that the composite should not work when the NESRGB has a palette loaded.

I checked again and it turns out this new capacitor did cause a palette to finally load. Led 7 still flashes quickly but a palette does load and the NESRGB is outputting all is audio/video signals.

The NESRGB did not work with the stock capacitor. It's function was exactly the same as with the 220n capacitor that came with the kit and other capacitors that I also tried.

I removed the capacitor and the function went back to led 0 illuminated along with led 7 flashing.

I reinstalled 100NJ100 and the partial functionality returned.

I am providing this information for anyone else that has trouble with an NESRGB V4.
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Donttouchthedoor
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Donttouchthedoor »

double post this can be ignored or deleted.
Last edited by Donttouchthedoor on Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Donttouchthedoor
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Donttouchthedoor »

Did a NESRGB v4 install over the weekend with the same results LED 0 solid with LED 7 flashing but then going to solid after. I am able to swap palettes though. Also tried the original reset timing capacitor as well as the new 220 included in the kit as well as both the 100 and 220 with no luck. Ordered a kit of capacitors to test some bigger values and get the reset timing down. Ill post here again if im able to get a more successful result maybe it can help you as well.

I am also wondering what jumper j9 does? was looking for j8 to put the board in 75 ohm but noticed it was not on it and found j9 in its place? does this version automatically detect 75 vs ttl?
Last edited by Donttouchthedoor on Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jarzarello
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by jarzarello »

Hi, I´m new in this forum. I have a question; led 7 on my NESRGB 4 blinks when I turn on the console, and finally stays on. It is OK, or is it indicating an error?

NES motherboard is NES-CPU-11

Thank you
GeorgeSpinner
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by GeorgeSpinner »

jarzarello wrote:Hi, I´m new in this forum. I have a question; led 7 on my NESRGB 4 blinks when I turn on the console, and finally stays on. It is OK, or is it indicating an error?

NES motherboard is NES-CPU-11

Thank you
According to the NESRGB site, flashing is not a good sign.

Fast flash = bad
Slower flash = ok?

Does a palette load for you?

If the palette loads you can at least get RGB out if it.

I belong the flashing indicates an issue with the input reading functionally for in game reset and palette selection via controller.
GeorgeSpinner
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by GeorgeSpinner »

Did anyone email Tim Worthington?

I did, several times, and only heard back once.

I said I had followed all the instructions but palette won't load and fast flashing of led 7.

He replied to ask if I'd changed the capacitor (I had).

I replied that I had and that I was at a loss.

I sent him some pictures of the install and provided feedback on what else I had tried.

I never heard back from him again.

I didn't expect him to devote his life to getting my nesrgb to work but I did at least expect reasonable replies to my emails. Even if they were to say "idk."

I completely understand that he's a single person and that we are working on decades old hardware. But I've been waiting weeks for a reply.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Lopenator »

I wouldn't hold my breath to hear back from him.

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jarzarello
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by jarzarello »

GeorgeSpinner wrote:
According to the NESRGB site, flashing is not a good sign.

Fast flash = bad
Slower flash = ok?

Does a palette load for you?

If the palette loads you can at least get RGB out if it.

I belong the flashing indicates an issue with the input reading functionally for in game reset and palette selection via controller.
Yes, NESRGB load palette 6. I have signal via RGB (I use SNES multiout and HD Retrovision cable), but via RF and original AV output the image is in gray and white, and some graphics error after 10-12 minutes playing.

Images:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... share_link
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Syntax
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Syntax »

Change the 0.47uf capacitor near the reset button to a new one. - This should fix cold boot issues.

Add the supplied 220pf cap between pin 30(Reset) and pin 20 ground on the PPU. As close to the leg as possible.

Add a 47-220pf between pin 13(CS) and pin 20 ground on the PPU - This should fix colors desyncing

Remove 3 surface mount resistors - This should fix the hardware attenuator overdriving colors.
Image

https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_fault/nesrgb40/
Last edited by Syntax on Tue Nov 22, 2022 9:29 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Lopenator »

Syntax wrote:Change the reset capacitor to a new one instead of reusing the dead old one in parallel with a new ceramic.

Also add a 200pf (The first post states 200n, this is wrong) cap between the reset leg of the ppu and ground. As close to the leg as possible.
Do you mean pin 13 and ground?

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Syntax
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Syntax »

? Reset is pin 3 from memory, right next to the sound channels.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Lopenator »

Got ya. I was thinking about somethibg else.

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Syntax
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Syntax »

I was looking at the wrong PPU lol, Pin 30 is reset. Its labeled on the NESRGB kit too. Post edited and pictures added for clarity.
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Donttouchthedoor
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Donttouchthedoor »

Just tried some different sized caps over the 224 given in the kit. I went as high as 4.7uf or 475 cap and still had no luck with led 7. I hope Tim can reach out here and give us some kind of explanation of what is going on with this version of the NES RGB.
GeorgeSpinner
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by GeorgeSpinner »

jarzarello wrote:
GeorgeSpinner wrote:
According to the NESRGB site, flashing is not a good sign.

Fast flash = bad
Slower flash = ok?

Does a palette load for you?

If the palette loads you can at least get RGB out if it.

I belong the flashing indicates an issue with the input reading functionally for in game reset and palette selection via controller.
Yes, NESRGB load palette 6. I have signal via RGB (I use SNES multiout and HD Retrovision cable), but via RF and original AV output the image is in gray and white, and some graphics error after 10-12 minutes playing.

Images:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... share_link
The white image from the composite RCA jack is normal when the NESRGB is working. If you want composite to work through that jack, you need to cut the trace for the jack and run a wire from the NESRGB derived composite to the jack.
GeorgeSpinner
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by GeorgeSpinner »

Syntax wrote:Change the 0.47uf capacitor near the reset button to a new one instead of reusing the dead old one in parallel with a new ceramic. - This should fix cold boot issues.

Also add a 220pf (The first post states 200n, this is wrong) cap between the reset leg of the PPU (pin 30) and ground. As close to the leg as possible. - This should fix colors desyncing.
Image

Remove 3 surface mount resistors - This should fix the hardware attenuator overdriving colors.
Image
Thank you for the information.

I corrected the mistake, regarding 220n capacitor in the original post.

This is very specific information you are offering.

How do you know this solution?
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Lopenator »

Donttouchthedoor wrote:Just tried some different sized caps over the 224 given in the kit. I went as high as 4.7uf or 475 cap and still had no luck with led 7. I hope Tim can reach out here and give us some kind of explanation of what is going on with this version of the NES RGB.
I do wish I had a different version. I don't even use palattes.
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Syntax
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Syntax »

GeorgeSpinner wrote:
This is very specific information you are offering.

How do you know this solution?
I did some testing with the v4 proto for Tim. The only issue I found with the top loader Pal unit I was using was the cold boot issue which was fixed with a new .47uf electro cap.
I was told from the start to install the 220pf cap on the PPU. The picture is from my install it may be hard to see the cap in the red circle just above the pin.
I never noticed the attenuator issue but I did not test any of the effected titles it seems.

https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_fault/nesrgb40/
jarzarello
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by jarzarello »

Well, finally I was able to resolve my issues. I forgot to change the C8 capacitor, and when I did, Led 7 on the RGB board stopped blinking.

Color and graphics issues were resolved by adding a 100pf capacitor connected across PPU pin 13 and GND.

Regardless, RF and original composite video still look in gray and white.

Thank us all for help me.
GeorgeSpinner
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by GeorgeSpinner »

Syntax wrote:
GeorgeSpinner wrote:
This is very specific information you are offering.

How do you know this solution?
I did some testing with the v4 proto for Tim. The only issue I found with the top loader Pal unit I was using was the cold boot issue which was fixed with a new .47uf electro cap.
I was told from the start to install the 220pf cap on the PPU. The picture is from my install it may be hard to see the cap in the red circle just above the pin.
I never noticed the attenuator issue but I did not test any of the effected titles it seems.

https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_fault/nesrgb40/
Thank you for the link. I appreciate the help.
GeorgeSpinner
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by GeorgeSpinner »

jarzarello wrote:Well, finally I was able to resolve my issues. I forgot to change the C8 capacitor, and when I did, Led 7 on the RGB board stopped blinking.

Color and graphics issues were resolved by adding a 100pf capacitor connected across PPU pin 13 and GND.

Regardless, RF and original composite video still look in gray and white.

Thank us all for help me.
As I mentioned previously, the composite is white because the nesrgb has disabled it.

Please scroll up to read the solution.
GeorgeSpinner
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by GeorgeSpinner »

Lopenator wrote:
Donttouchthedoor wrote:Just tried some different sized caps over the 224 given in the kit. I went as high as 4.7uf or 475 cap and still had no luck with led 7. I hope Tim can reach out here and give us some kind of explanation of what is going on with this version of the NES RGB.
I do wish I had a different version. I don't even use palattes.
While beggars cannot be choosers, and we ARE fortunate that Tim Worthington even offers and provides this product... I, also, wish for a simpler solution.

The v2 was perfect IMO. If I could trade my v4 for a v2, I would.

I do not need in game reset from my RGB chip (and so I do not have it connected).

That being said, I am grateful for what I do have. It is far superior to composite or RF modulation.
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Syntax
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Syntax »

Tim went thru the trouble of redesigning the NESRGB kit so he could still produce it with available parts during the chip shortage.
Some teething issues are to be expected unfortunately with the new boards and their code.
I'd say he's away at the moment if not returning emails as he is usually very fast with replies.
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Donttouchthedoor
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Donttouchthedoor »

Syntax wrote:Tim went thru the trouble of redesigning the NESRGB kit so he could still produce it with available parts during the chip shortage.
Some teething issues are to be expected unfortunately with the new boards and their code.
I'd say he's away at the moment if not returning emails as he is usually very fast with replies.
Would you say Tim could update the firmware and release it for us to flash with a usb blaster?
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB v4 on Front Loader - LED 7 = Flashing / LED 0 = S

Post by Lopenator »

Are most of the people here with issues from the most recent batch of v4.0? The 2nd batch?
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