Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

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Rulumi
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Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

I'm not sure in how to exactly ask this, but is it possible that the Wii 480p fix only works on some of the affected revisions?

I tried both homebrew using the old SDK version without the fix and the latest SDK with the fix in this console, but I can't see any difference from the direct captures on this console I'm trying it on in any of the homebrew I have tried.

But it doesn't look like the results with the fix properly working or one of the newer boards, it's as nothing changed, 480i doesn't have the problem as expected.

It's not a launch day Wii, while I don't have the screwdriver around to check the board version right now, I'm sure it's not a later RVL-CPU-40 or higher either, since BootMii as boot2 can be installed and works fine on this console.

Could it be that something with the fix and this revision or an external factor can make the fix not work properly as well?

Images:
Spoiler
Old SDK without the Fix
Image
New SDK with the Fix
Image
Any with 480i
Image
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bobrocks95
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

For the 240p test suite, are you saying you compiled a new version yourself with the new SDK? I can upload the beta version artemio sent to me if you want to double check. Here were my results with it: viewtopic.php?p=1490449#p1490449

Though I found a lot less of a difference testing with USB Loader GX and Mario Kart Wii (maybe I should have focused on a more colorful spot if the issue affects chroma):
Stock on top, 480p fix on bottom:
Spoiler
Image
Like I speculated at the time though, neither screenshot has perfect sampling phase set on my OSSC because I really struggle with it, so maybe it's just altering what the optimal sampling phase should be. Both your pics look a lot like my before picture though, with smearing on both sides horizontally. I don't remember if I tried adjusting phase each time before taking those pictures, but I would think I did my best for each of them.

I got my Wii day 1 in the US so it should be an RVL-CPU-01. Multiple sources say RVL-CPU-40 fixes the 480p SDK bug and has better component output, but I got a black Wii (guaranteed 40) and could not see a difference swapping between the 2, AND the WiiDual boards only ever supported RVL-CPU-40+ and I've also seen a lot of people say its 480p analog output is still much better than stock on the 40+ models (see matt's post in that same thread).

So with that in mind I wonder how improved the 40+ motherboards really are. I guess since I'm sitting here thinking about it I could grab my black Wii and get some captures of it.

EDIT: Is the deflicker filter enabled via I2S and the WiiDual is bypassing it maybe?
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Rulumi
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

bobrocks95 wrote:For the 240p test suite, are you saying you compiled a new version yourself with the new SDK? I can upload the beta version artemio sent to me if you want to double check. Here were my results with it: viewtopic.php?p=1490449#p1490449
Yes, sorta, that'll be nice if you can.
Although I tried with other homebrew with official latest releases that are using the updated versions of the SDK as well, but it didn't seem to make a difference on that Wii.

The WiiDual analog output is generated from the digital one and the stock Wii output may be a bit prone to some interference in certain conditions, so it should be cleaner even if the later ones are sharper in 480p.

As for the deflicker filter, it's controlled by the software, so GCVideo shouldn't be able to bypass it, but the methods to disable it on GameCube and Wii normally will work there as well.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Rulumi wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:For the 240p test suite, are you saying you compiled a new version yourself with the new SDK? I can upload the beta version artemio sent to me if you want to double check. Here were my results with it: viewtopic.php?p=1490449#p1490449
Yes, sorta, that'll be nice if you can.
Although I tried with other homebrew with official latest releases that are using the updated versions of the SDK as well, but it didn't seem to make a difference on that Wii.

The WiiDual analog output is generated from the digital one and the stock Wii output may be a bit prone to some interference in certain conditions, so it should be cleaner even if the later ones are sharper in 480p.

As for the deflicker filter, it's controlled by the software, so GCVideo shouldn't be able to bypass it, but the methods to disable it on GameCube and Wii normally will work there as well.
This hopefully works google drive sharing sucks: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MM-Dg8 ... sp=sharing

Wonder what's still the weak link for video quality on the RVL-CPU-40+ stock output. Not a lot of WiiDuals out there to compare with since so few got made. I'm hoping Electron Shephard's AVE-HDMI flex "board" gets RVL-CPU-01 support soon, it's an install I could handle and a very affordable price.

Going to get homebrew running on my black RVL-CPU-40 just to satisfy my curiosity.

EDIT: Not going to post more pics because without perfect sampling on the OSSC I'm not really helping, but- my black Wii (all sources say RVL-CPU-40/60 guaranteed) is *noticeably* darker with the same cables and setup, and there was no visible difference between the regular 240p test suite and the version with the 480p fix.

EDIT2: Scratch the darker part, my OSSC SCART cable was loose in such a way that all it did was make the image slightly darker. Fixable through Pre-ADC gain even, so you wouldn't think it was a loose cable. God please let the Morph come out this month.
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Rulumi
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

Thank you for sharing the beta, although as expected from the results of the other homebrew I tested, there's no difference.

Which it's what's intriguing me, as I thought the fix would of work fine on pre RVL-CPU-40 boards as is, I wonder if maybe it'll need a different configuration according to the AVE-RVL version or something else either with the board revision.

May try to find another one to test, although I'm not sure of having an RVL-CPU-01 console sadly, but I should have an RVL-101 somewhere that should have the fix in hardware in theory as what is said usually, so will see really how that goes in as the documentation of the 101s online on this matter doesn't seem to be the best.

As for this console, if I can't find the screwdriver, I'll try to borrow one or buy a new one to see the board revision next week.

---
If you really want to try modding the hardware out and can't get a GCVideo solution right now, I guess you could try to see how the RGBHV (VGA) mod works, but I haven't used it personally and there doesn't seem to be video captures screenshots online to be sure of how it compares.

It doesn't look to be much more complex to install than the AVE-HDMI, but it may be more laborious as the VGA cable needs to be done by oneself, as well as installing homebrew for the VGA output patches.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Would the battery tray trick be enough to tell the motherboard, or is that also a weird security bit?

Waiting on HDMI to pair with the Morph for full digital processing. Like I said I'd take more pictures for comparison but I just can't lock in phase on the OSSC, so results might already be misleading with the captures I shared before.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by KPackratt2k »

bobrocks95 wrote:Would the battery tray trick be enough to tell the motherboard, or is that also a weird security bit?

Waiting on HDMI to pair with the Morph for full digital processing. Like I said I'd take more pictures for comparison but I just can't lock in phase on the OSSC, so results might already be misleading with the captures I shared before.
IIRC the inside of the battery compartment doesn't reveal enough of the motherboard to know what revision it is, just the inside of the battery holder.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Modretro makes it sound like you can
Spoiler
Image
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by ZellSF »

It's also not a security bit, just a regular small screw. It's supposed to be replaceable. Which batteries should be and somehow it was never been seen before, and wasn't seen again after the Wii. I mean I guess the cooler thing to do is just brick the console when the battery dies.

I'm a bit confused why this topic was created without doing a simple check of the most relevant information.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

ZellSF wrote:I'm a bit confused why this topic was created without doing a simple check of the most relevant information.
You haven't added anything to the discussion about the 480p bug. The mention of checking the motherboard revision via the battery tray was a small aside, not the topic of the thread.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by ZellSF »

You brought it up because of it was relevant to the topic of the thread. You asked if it was a security bit and I answered.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

bobrocks95 wrote:Would the battery tray trick be enough to tell the motherboard, or is that also a weird security bit?

Waiting on HDMI to pair with the Morph for full digital processing. Like I said I'd take more pictures for comparison but I just can't lock in phase on the OSSC, so results might already be misleading with the captures I shared before.
Yes, that'll be enough if you only need to know the motherboard revision, it's a normal screw just small, I think it's size size #00.

And a digital GCVideo solution it's one of the best routes for a clean digital signal for the console right now I think, it can also be fine for some analog needs with a good HDMI to component converter. Although the AVE-HDMI keeps the stock analog output working, just without any changes to it.
ZellSF wrote:It's also not a security bit, just a regular small screw. It's supposed to be replaceable. Which batteries should be and somehow it was never been seen before, and wasn't seen again after the Wii. I mean I guess the cooler thing to do is just brick the console when the battery dies.

I'm a bit confused why this topic was created without doing a simple check of the most relevant information.
The Wii U uses the same kind of system.

And the main point of the topic for which I made this was rather than disscuss the Wii video quality output itself, but rather get to how it's working on different revisions, as it seems like there may be changes (not necessarily related to a better output) before the CPU-40+ boards that might make the SDK bug fix to not work like on older ones.

And again, which my tests focus on that console was with homebrew, not patched retail games.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

Well, now with the tests done and checking the motherboards, I'll put the captures that I got, now using the OSSC and in Line2x mode. And I ended up more intrigued?

On the RVL-101, a black shell one, I don't think there's any difference between the 480 fix or not.

I'm actually not sure of there really being a difference with the RVL-001? I did some more tests and I'm sharing the ones I did with emGBA (progressive mode 480p with a 3x integer setting). The RVL-101 it's an RVK-CPU-01.

RVL-101 Captures:
Spoiler
In the case of the RVL-001, checking it, it's actually an RVL-CPU-01. But indeed not a launch one, albeit I'm still unsure why I'm not sure of seeing a difference with the fix and without it either.

RVL-001 Captures:
Spoiler
Link to full galleries with a few extra images:
-RVK-CPU-01: https://imgur.com/a/Rs0552X
-RVL-CPU-01: https://imgur.com/a/C3RbTyU

In both cases the full 480p 1:1 checkboard of the 240p Test Suite gave similar results to the before fix example by Extrems curiosly enough: viewtopic.php?p=1361335#p1361335

Either it's working fine, I made or looking at something wrong; or indeed there was a change on the consoles manufacturing at a different point than theorized?
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by emmeka »

bobrocks95 wrote:Multiple sources say RVL-CPU-40 fixes the 480p SDK bug and has better component output, but I got a black Wii (guaranteed 40) and could not see a difference swapping between the 2
It's actually the AVE chip that matters, the only ones that have the 480p fix (probably...) are boards with the BU99. The RVL-CPU-40 *can* have the BU99, but has also been found to have the older AVE chips about 50% of the time, seemingly depending on the date of manufacture. See this post for some examples. So it's entirely possibly your 40 has an older chip and that's why you don't notice any difference, only way to know for sure would be a teardown. Only RVL-101 (Family Edition) Wiis seem to be absolutely guaranteed to have the BU99, the vast majority of RVL-CPU-60s seem to have them but there is at least one reported case of it having the old chip.
Rulumi wrote:In both cases the full 480p 1:1 checkboard of the 240p Test Suite gave similar results to the before fix example by Extrems curiosly enough: viewtopic.php?p=1361335#p1361335

Either it's working fine, I made or looking at something wrong; or indeed there was a change on the consoles manufacturing at a different point than theorized?
I'd say that it's likely an issue with your capture card or an issue with OSSC phase not being quite right. The RVL-101 at least shouldn't look like that, I can confirm that with direct component connection to an EDTV LCD I get perfect checkerboard from a BU99 chip Wii (which the RVL-101 should be). Try to get your hands on a little EDTV LCD with component inputs (it's handy to have anyway!), you can find them in 20" 4:3 size very easily and cheaply on like buy and sell listings just by searching for "20" TV" or "19" TV". It'll make comparing pixels a lot easier.

There is another possibility though, maybe the 240p patch you did didn't work quite right *and* your RVL-101 doesn't actually have a BU99 chip. Everyone has assumed that RVL-101s always have a BU99 AVE chip as all teardowns have shown them to, but maybe yours doesn't, who knows. Only way to know for sure is to do a teardown.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

emmeka wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:Multiple sources say RVL-CPU-40 fixes the 480p SDK bug and has better component output, but I got a black Wii (guaranteed 40) and could not see a difference swapping between the 2
It's actually the AVE chip that matters, the only ones that have the 480p fix (probably...) are boards with the BU99. The RVL-CPU-40 *can* have the BU99, but has also been found to have the older AVE chips about 50% of the time, seemingly depending on the date of manufacture. See this post for some examples. So it's entirely possibly your 40 has an older chip and that's why you don't notice any difference, only way to know for sure would be a teardown. Only RVL-101 (Family Edition) Wiis seem to be absolutely guaranteed to have the BU99, the vast majority of RVL-CPU-60s seem to have them but there is at least one reported case of it having the old chip.
Seeing a difference between the 480p fixed 240p test suite and non-fixed on my white launch Wii, while not seeing any difference on my black Wii, implies it has the newer AVE chip with the fix built-in, would it not?

White -> 480p fix noticeably improved picture
Black -> 480p fix looked identical

Of course I'd double-check if disassembling a Wii wasn't a pain in the ass.
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Rulumi
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

emmeka wrote:
I'd say that it's likely an issue with your capture card or an issue with OSSC phase not being quite right. The RVL-101 at least shouldn't look like that, I can confirm that with direct component connection to an EDTV LCD I get perfect checkerboard from a BU99 chip Wii (which the RVL-101 should be). Try to get your hands on a little EDTV LCD with component inputs (it's handy to have anyway!), you can find them in 20" 4:3 size very easily and cheaply on like buy and sell listings just by searching for "20" TV" or "19" TV". It'll make comparing pixels a lot easier.

There is another possibility though, maybe the 240p patch you did didn't work quite right *and* your RVL-101 doesn't actually have a BU99 chip. Everyone has assumed that RVL-101s always have a BU99 AVE chip as all teardowns have shown them to, but maybe yours doesn't, who knows. Only way to know for sure is to do a teardown.
I don't think it should be the capture card, it doesn't have problems with the OSSC setting the phase with that or other resolutions.

Although if it could be an error by my part, using a different capture card through YPbPr input gives the same results between the two. Connecting directly to an LCD TV through component inputs, same results.

As for the 480p patch maybe not working on the apps I guess that could be a possibility, but I didn't do any manually for that galleries, that Beta build of the 240p TestSuite already uses an SDK with the fix. As well as eMGBA by Extrems themself.

Although as it affecting the results in the RVL-101, I don't think it could be that, I didn't share that screenshots but I also tried a retail game on progressive that uses 1:1 horizontal scale and no deflicker by default, same results and that uses Nintendo's SDK.

I think it may be possible that if the difference it's just on the AVE-RVL, maybe it won't be weird if at first the factories used the ones they had at hand when manufacturing them... just like the RVL-CPU-60, which was still on production when the RVL-101s were made at first, since most of Asia never got the RVL-101 and the 201.

But I'll have to manually check the AVE-RVL on the board to know for sure.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by emmeka »

bobrocks95 wrote:Seeing a difference between the 480p fixed 240p test suite and non-fixed on my white launch Wii, while not seeing any difference on my black Wii, implies it has the newer AVE chip with the fix built-in, would it not?

White -> 480p fix noticeably improved picture
Black -> 480p fix looked identical
Sorry, I guess I misunderstood what you said. I thought when you were saying you "could not see a difference swapping between the 2" you meant between the RVL-CPU-40 and the RVL-CPU-01.
Rulumi wrote:Although if it could be an error by my part, using a different capture card through YPbPr input gives the same results between the two. Connecting directly to an LCD TV through component inputs, same results.
To clarify, you've tried the RVL-101 with both capture cards and direct connection to an LCD using the stock 240p test suite, and not just the RVL-CPU-01 and the beta? If you've tried 2 different capture cards and direct connection to a display and get the same result with both Wiis, both with and without the patch, that sure is interesting. We can say for sure then that the 480p fix just isn't working for you. I'm not sure why the 480p patch for the 240p test suite isn't working for you - I've never tried it, and have just seen the difference between an RVL-CPU-60 and earlier revision white Wii using the stock 240p test suite and can confirm it should look like the difference in Extrems' example.

Regardless of why it isn't working, this means that your RVL-101 does not have a BU99. I'd be really interested to see if that's the case. It is entirely possible - there is at least one known RVL-CPU-60 which doesn't have a BU99, and the RVK-CPU-01 (first revision of the RVL-101) is actually almost entirely identical to the 60. If this is the case it'd be a significant discovery because it would mean no revision is truly safe from the 480p issue.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

My comment on not being able to see a difference switching between the two was a more subjective, by eye test on the home menu. Like my Mario Kart Wii captures, I honestly find it hard to notice a difference between the 480p fix being active or not, without zooming 8x integer on a capture and putting them side-by-side. I've said it before but it speaks to the low quality of the Wii's output that people are putting in so much work to try and improve it even slightly.

Still waiting on the Morph and AVE-HDMI for earlier models, I'm about to just learn how to design the flex myself...
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

If you refer to the normal Wii Menu, it'll look somewhat blurry by default regardless of the quality of the output because of the deflicker filter. But there's a Priiloader patch code to disable it.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by bobrocks95 »

Rulumi wrote:If you refer to the normal Wii Menu, it'll look somewhat blurry by default regardless of the quality of the output because of the deflicker filter. But there's a Priiloader patch code to disable it.
I see a "480p graphics fix in system menu" patch option, but that's just the 480p fix we're talking about here. I'm guessing the deflicker filter patch has to be added separately (I remember downloading a pack of patches for the default set)?

Mario Kart Wii also looked almost identical to me. Maybe it has a deflicker filter on too. But it goes back to my argument- games and menus having a blurry deflicker filter even at 480p where it isn't needed, just furthers the point that the Wii's output looks really bad and that's why we're spending so much energy looking at this minor 480p fix in the first place.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

Yes, it's a different code. I'll attach it here, credits goes to its original author SuperrSonic:
Spoiler
[Remove Deflicker]
maxversion=518
minversion=288
amount=5
hash=0x0608080a,0x0C0A0808
patch=0x06000015,0x16150000
hash=0x0608080a,0x0C0A0808
patch=0x06000015,0x16150000
hash=0x0608080a,0x0C0A0808
patch=0x06000015,0x16150000
hash=0x0608080a,0x0C0A0808
patch=0x06000015,0x16150000
hash=0x0608080a,0x0C0A0808
patch=0x06000015,0x16150000
Mario Kart Wii also uses a version of the deflicker filter on progressive, although it should be very easy to notice the difference on the Wii Menu as the Wii Menu uses quite an strong version of it.

And the deflicker filter sadly is something to still be patched if wanted even with an HDMI mod, as it's used quite often on Wii games in progressive, but it's easy to patch it on most games nowdays.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by RebeL9 »

Is there a proper comparison between the fix and the non-fixed 480p?
I have a PAL Revision 50 board.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by emmeka »

RebeL9 wrote:Is there a proper comparison between the fix and the non-fixed 480p?
I have a PAL Revision 50 board.
Woah, that's a rare Wii you've got there. Very few 50s have even been documented. You also might not even need the 480p fix - it is possible for the 50 to have a BU99 AVE chip.

For a side by side of what the fix actually does, here's Extrems' capture of a basic checkerboard test pattern. Also from that same thread, here's a comparison of an RVL-101 and a presumably older board revision of the RVL-001. The RVL-101 always (probably?) has the 480p fix stock.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by RocketBelt »

Also have a PAL 50 and would be interested if the chip can be identified without a teardown.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by emmeka »

RocketBelt wrote:Also have a PAL 50 and would be interested if the chip can be identified without a teardown.
The easiest way to at least be reasonably certain (but not 100% certain, you'd need a teardown for that) would be to run the unpatched version of the 240p test suite (version 1.10b) and run the checkerboard pattern test. A wii with the 480p fix should have a mostly perfect checkerboard, alternating white and black pixels, while one without the fix will have both pixels appear as different shades of grey. See Extrems' capture that I linked above for an example.

Keep in mind that this checkerboard might not display right for you depending how you're capturing it or displaying it, for example chroma subsampling by a display, scaler or capture card could totally mess it up. You may also want to run the patched beta version of the 240p test suite linked here that we've been talking about in this post just to rule out the possibility of capture/phase/display issues causing the checkerboard to not look right. The optimal way is probably with a half-way decent EDTV LCD so you can really see the pixels (or maybe a 1440p monitor would be ok too, so long as it accepts DTV 480p?) All of this will also be easier if you have a known 480p-fixed Wii like an RVL-101, and a known unfixed Wii like an older board RVL-001, to compare it to.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

This isn't something new per say, but since it hasn't been said there, for anyone interested in a less filtered output playing Wii games in any way through hardware, disabling the deflicker and framebuffer may help for people to prefer the image at the cost of more dithering.

Deflicker + Framebuffer size:
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
As always and already well-know I think, for anyone wanting a clean and sharp image, don't use the Wii U's Wii mode, 480p is actually the blurriest since the console is still scaling and zooming the image with the 480p setting and as such has the most loss of detail (specially when a game uses the deflicker filter).

Apart from always having a chroma shift, sometimes being alright and sometimes worse. The worst chroma shift level on the Wii U seems to cut a bit of the software's output frame on the right vertical side...

Wii:
Spoiler
Image
Wii U (Less Worse Chroma Shift):
Spoiler
-480p:
Image
-720p:
Image
-1080p:
Image
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by RebeL9 »

Just a stupid question but if you have a later Wii revision (where the bug is supposed to be fixed) does it affect the output when using the fix in USB Loader GX and similiar?
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

Shouldn't do anything in theory, but if it does something weird you can disable just the 480p fix option.
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Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Rulumi »

Is still an early version, but there's an Aroma plugin to apply patches to the Wii U's DMCU, it's already a great improvement over the default unmodded Wii U's Wii mode output.

Here are some test screenshots with the 480p setting, note that all of them they were made with a 1:1 output resolution set in the software through homebrew or the software itself already supports that by default:

Image

More examples:
Spoiler
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Enhanced vWii (evWii) can be downloaded here: https://github.com/GaryOderNichts/evwii
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Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Wii 480p Bug and Revisions?

Post by Konsolkongen »

Interesting :) I will give that a look when I have the time :)

USB Loader GX has also introduced a new framebuffer aspect ratio option that outputs a much cleaner image, though at a usually more narrow aspect ratio. Ideally you will want to stretch to 16:9 or 4:3 again if you have the option.

I wish it could be implemented system wide. I don't really like USB Loader GX, it's a slower way to boot your disc games, and I think the interface is too cluttered with icons compared to using the original menu.
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