Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

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AlivE
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Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

Post by AlivE »

Hey guys.
I'm trying to get a clear picture on xbox 1.6 via ossc. I tried adjusting the timings, but it didn't help. Image is not sharp as on ps2.
Spoiler
Image
Image
I read that on xcalibur encoder the picture is better through rgb, I thought to try to display RGsB using vga patched bios, but it does not work with this encoder, as written in the readme.
I found this video https://youtu.be/jTUBSPNzX9k. I don't know if the author uses the correct settings, but on screenshots I can clearly see sampling errors. The vertical resolution is correct, but on horizontal there are clearly gradient steps.
So, is it even possible to get the "pixel perfect" image from XBOX component cable?
tongshadow
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Re: Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

Post by tongshadow »

Posting here because I also noticed this, the Xbox component video output isnt as good as the PS2's. In 480i it applies that really blurry flicker filter and in 480p the picture looks as if it's oversharpened and processed.
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SGGG2
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Re: Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

Post by SGGG2 »

It looks like this is due to bad internal scaling. XBOXHD+ HDMI board has the ability to turn it off, a must have, IMO. I hope the upcoming GEM mod has this feature.

https://imgur.com/a/gppHCli

https://twitter.com/WobblingP/status/16 ... 1208301568
Last edited by SGGG2 on Fri Aug 25, 2023 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
tongshadow
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Re: Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

Post by tongshadow »

Hah, I knew I wasnt seeing things! The Xbox does apply a nasty sharpening filtering.
Dochartaigh
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Re: Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

Post by Dochartaigh »

XBMC4Gamers (like THE most popular front end and launcher for hacked OG Xbox) has a couple 'deblur' (or similar verbiage) in it's settings – anybody know what this does? I haven't noticed a difference in-game... but if that option is there I assume it does something.

Regardless, have to say that my two OG Xbox's look AMAZING on my BVM/PVM CRT's, my 32" widescreen multiformat CRT, and even my 480p-native plasma. But I've struggled with upscaling to modern screens... even made a topic exactly about that which is 8 pages long so far... and still don't have an image that holds a candle even to the crappy contrast plasmas I have...
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SGGG2
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Re: Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

Post by SGGG2 »

When I had a Samsung HDCRT Xbox looked amazing on it. Internal scaling / processing appears to be the culprit for flat screen woes. I’m surprised a direct render option isn’t baked into one of the many custom BIOS’s.
tongshadow
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Re: Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

Post by tongshadow »

Quick shots comparing GGXX running at 480p on both Xbox and PS2, through the OSSC at 2x mode. It's pretty obvious how bad the Xbox looks compared to the cleaner video output of the PS2. Look at the ringing around the sprites and pixel transitions!

https://i.imgur.com/znNkkmD.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/KRnU0hE.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/52iBWmD.jpeg
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SGGG2
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Re: Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

Post by SGGG2 »

FBX confirmed the Xbox does some form of internal scaling:
FBX wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:38 pm Followup on my hair-pulling struggle trying to find optimal H. samplerate on 480p for XBOX:

It turns out the default value of 858 for 720x480p really was correct for XBOX after all. Strange as it may seem, the software itself is stretching the graphics of games, causing internal linear interpolation of some of the graphics. In Capcom vs SNK EO for example, the original 640 horizontal graphics are extended to 654, and pre-drawn graphics are getting partially interpolated. This shows up really nice and ugly on the S-N-K groove meters that have grid sections. They were pre-drawn at 640 res, and then the 656 stretch makes them look like shit.

I wish there was some way to turn this off and 'force' XBOX to output 1:1 pixel ratios, but at least now I know I'm no going crazy with why my OSSC techniques weren't working on the XBOX 480p mode.
viewtopic.php?p=1289166#p1289166
tongshadow wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:14 pmLook at the ringing around the sprites and pixel transitions!
Did you try enabling upsampling?
tongshadow
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Re: Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

Post by tongshadow »

Yes, that's what I always use on 480p content. I can see the ringing on my 14L5 too, so it's not the OSSC's fault.
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AlivE
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Re: Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

Post by AlivE »

SGGG2 wrote: Fri Aug 25, 2023 1:36 am FBX confirmed the Xbox does some form of internal scaling:
FBX wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:38 pm Followup on my hair-pulling struggle trying to find optimal H. samplerate on 480p for XBOX:

It turns out the default value of 858 for 720x480p really was correct for XBOX after all. Strange as it may seem, the software itself is stretching the graphics of games, causing internal linear interpolation of some of the graphics. In Capcom vs SNK EO for example, the original 640 horizontal graphics are extended to 654, and pre-drawn graphics are getting partially interpolated. This shows up really nice and ugly on the S-N-K groove meters that have grid sections. They were pre-drawn at 640 res, and then the 656 stretch makes them look like shit.

I wish there was some way to turn this off and 'force' XBOX to output 1:1 pixel ratios, but at least now I know I'm no going crazy with why my OSSC techniques weren't working on the XBOX 480p mode.
viewtopic.php?p=1289166#p1289166
tongshadow wrote: Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:14 pmLook at the ringing around the sprites and pixel transitions!
Did you try enabling upsampling?
As a result of searching for information, I also found this post. Maybe some bios mod can fix this. I really want to get a clean picture, without hardware mods :|
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SGGG2
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Re: Sharp picture on xbox 1.6

Post by SGGG2 »

MakeMHz states the stand alone Project Stellar chip has “Analog video improvements and fixes with feature parity of the XboxHD+” which means it should have the ability to turn off pre scale. Can anyone confirm this?

https://makemhz.com/products/stellar

EDIT: According to this post from February https://twitter.com/WobblingP/status/16 ... 4043655173 the HD+ is the only way to turn off pre scale currently. The stand alone Stellar chip has an incomplete feature set right now, it’s not clear if it’s been updated to support this.

@tongshadow, try turning off the low pass filter on the OSSC, I get a significantly sharper and even cleaner image with PS2 and Xbox that way. Go figure!
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