A device to rotate analog RGB 90 degrees?

[emuola]

I need to rotate analog RGB signal before it enters my BVM20F1E. I know I should get another monitor and put it on its side, but sadly no.

What would be my best option to rotate the signal with minimum lag?

[parodius]

BVM20F1E, that means 480p max if you want to use the full height of the monitor, right?

There might be better/more specialized devices in the future (PixelFX Morph, OSSC Pro...) but the solutions that I know of are (from newer to older):

Dido Jr
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=64015

Datapath X4
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48297

SOIA
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38531

I think I'm missing at least one though.

[Fudoh]

The F1 is 15khz only, so it would need to run in 480i in order to display to full vertical res of a rotated title. Will be messy at best.

Is the source 15khz as well ? If so, your ideal path would likely be OSSC - DIDO - EXTRON VSC.

[emuola]

Thank you for the replies guys, although they made me realise it's not gonna be easy/cheap/compact or anything like that to solve this

Yeah, I completely did not realise the vertical resolution limits that kinda make the whole idea a big pile of c*ap.

Now that I have the experts around, I'll present the whole scenario, that I'm trying to solve:

I currently have ca. 10 retro computers (and one CoreGrafx) hooked up to the BVM via video/audio switches and custom made "atari-joystick" swicther etc.
I've just bought a Mister with all the bells and whistles and, oh boy, isn't that something else... It has all the "home computers" I've got on the shelf and also most of the 15Khz arcade cores, I'm so fond of.

The only PITA are the vertical arcade cores. I don't love shooters, but I want to have Bomb Jack at least at my disposal. As we all know, BVM's cost kidneys/arms/legs/retinas/other organs now and can be pretty complicated to maintain. The one I have has new caps all the way., under 20k hours, in pristine condition - yeah, I was lucky back then.

I cannot afford another BVM and also I've got no room to have another CRT on its side

Am I screwed or what? I guess I have to stick to the horizontal arcade games or buy another CRT and put it on its side?

I'm familiar with the retro/CRT stuff in general, but the deep insights of CRT's are definitely not my expertise.

What would you do if you were me?

Thanks for listening this whining guys

[kitty666cats]

FYI: The Dido Jr only does RGBHV, RGsB sync on green & component (as far as analog signals on the DVI-I connectors goes). No RGBS, derpity derp.

They are cool, I have the Dido LT which sadly lacks the rotation. But yeah, with custom timings you can downscale to 240p and upscale to 1920x1440p. Not very laggy from my experience (I could play Street Fighter Alpha 3 with no issues, heh) but I don’t have measurement tools

P.S. You won’t need a Extron VSC chained with the Dido Jr, you can just set the output to sync on green. Can also adjust image size and position! Let me warn you, punching in the custom timings for the resolutions can be a pain…

Fudoh you’d probably enjoy messing with the Dido unit, you should keep an eye out for one (if you ever want to tinker with one, I could maybe mail it to you to borrow. Unless you’re pretty much retired from playing with scalers, lol)

[kitty666cats]

Also: getting a separate TATE CRT is probably the wisest and most economical choice with the least headaches

[Fudoh]

@emuola:

the MiSTer does allow rotated (Yoko) output through HDMI, so you don't need an extra device for that. All you need is a HDMI to RGB dongle (cheap) and an Extron VSC to scan-convert the MiSTer's output to 15khz for your Sony. $20 for the DAC and $50 for the Extron via ebay.

[Dochartaigh]

The only PITA are the vertical arcade cores. I don't love shooters, but I want to have Bomb Jack at least at my disposal. As we all know, BVM's cost kidneys/arms/legs/retinas/other organs now and can be pretty complicated to maintain. The one I have has new caps all the way., under 20k hours, in pristine condition - yeah, I was lucky back then.

I cannot afford another BVM and also I've got no room to have another CRT on its side

If you're into BVM's I assume you're into image quality above all else... and putting a vertical shooter pillarboxed on a horizontal/regular screen honestly just sucks – it's pretty bad (especially when the scanlines are just totally wrong). I also might be alone in this, but I find Sony Trinitrons and PVM/BVM's (sans the widescreen/flat ones), with their glass curved only in that one direction, also aren't ideal to go TATE to begin with (something about the curve - which you don't notice much when used regular, is extremely exaggerated when on its side). I much prefer a flatscreen or traditional curved screen for TATE (which is weird as I specifically don't own any non-Sony 4:3 PVM/BVM's because I really hate curved screens lol). This means a cheap/free (but decent and with YPbPr) consumer set might be a great thing for occasional use.

Anyway, my advice, especially since you said you 'don't love shooters', and don't have any more room (assuming horizontal room) is to build UP in your setup. Yeah, yeah, I know right above I said I don't like a PVM/BVM in TATE, but this is the only pic I have handy showing you what I mean. Same desk footprint, but once stacked (I prefer a small triangle foam wedge underneath the top CRT to angle it down a little bit so it's more in-line with your eyes) doesn't take up any more left-to-right space and you have a proper TATE monitor. Also if you're going the consumer route, that is WAY more similar to the lower-grade A-tubes most arcade cabs use (especially if you run Component to it) if you like that sort of mimicked realism.

[kitty666cats]

@emuola:

the MiSTer does allow rotated (Yoko) output through HDMI, so you don't need an extra device for that. All you need is a HDMI to RGB dongle (cheap) and an Extron VSC to scan-convert the MiSTer's output to 15khz for your Sony. $20 for the DAC and $50 for the Extron via ebay.

The MiSTER can do 15kHz over HDMI, they don’t need a VSC just a RGB interface for combining sync. Unless there’s some reason 480i is ideal for TATE games…?

[fernan1234]

The MiSTER can do 15kHz over HDMI, they don’t need a VSC just a RGB interface for combining sync. Unless there’s some reason 480i is ideal for TATE games…?

Advantage of 480i would be 1) enough space to fit the "vertical" resolution of tate'd games, and 2) compatibility with SD-only CRTs.

The MiSTer could do this via the scaler both for the direct-video HDMI and IO board analogue output, if only it supported 480i as a global scaled output resolution (something I've been hoping for, but not a priority for Sorg who only really cares about flat panel use). The MiSter now does support 480i output for specific cores where the system originally supported it like PSX, so maybe eventually it can make it over into a scaler output resolution.

[Fudoh]

I wasn't aware that the MiSTer could to 480i output for cores running progressive resolutions, since scaling to interlaced resolutions isn't as easy as it sounds.

[kitty666cats]

Tangentially related, but I recently picked up a down-scan converter that accepts 15kHz inputs - so, when used that way, it’s essentially a encoder/transcoder. I have yet to see if it passes through 240p or converts it to 480i on the output - likely the latter. Nothing groundbreaking but definitely interesting… most scan converters have a minimum input frequency of 24kHz. It’s a CorioScan Pro SG. Not to be mistaken with Corio2 units which are full-fledged scalers / this is your classic down-scan converter like a VSC-_00 from Extron

[BazookaBen]

I don't understand why everybody's trying to help the OP who wants to ruin his image quality just because he doesn't want to turn his monitor on its side.

[ldeveraux]

I don't understand why certain people can't recognize that their 'best solution' doesn't always translate to the person asking the question

[orange808]

Large CRTs and CRT projectors, I suppose. An extreme edge case among gaming edge cases.

Could be useful for a game of Ms Pac Man on a big beamer when friends come around.