Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

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Superior Sephiroth
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Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by Superior Sephiroth »

Would Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler be good for scaling retro gaming consoles (I think it will only work with 480p and up consoles) to modern 4K (OLED) TVs and will it be easy to use (just connect and power up with no configuration)?
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by maxtherabbit »

I did some limited testing with mine and it actually does work with 240p
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orange808
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by orange808 »

It depends on your expectations. If you just want some kind of image on the screen, it might do that. It won't be very good.

The RetroTink5x Pro is a significantly better product for upscaling video games. The 'Tink-5x was specifically designed for games and it will significantly outperform an old Extron machine.

There's no frame lock on the RGB-HDMI 300 A. There will be glitches in scrolling.

I don't remember if it accepts 480i at all, but I have never liked Extron deinterlacing (anyhow). Even if it does do 480i, the deinterlacing won't be great. It may also apply incorrect deinterlacing to 240p inputs and create some very ugly artifacts.

IIRC, the RGB-HDMI 300 A is 4:2:2 with 8 bit internal color processing, so it won't upscale low resolution signals very well. Even if it properly recognizes 240p and 480i, the scaling will be blurry. It's an old machine and it shows.

Get a Retrotink 5x Pro if you want a reasonably simplified upscaler for old video game consoles in 2022.

There are some edge cases where some specific people might find a use for the RGB-HDMI 300 A, but those are odd circumstances--and there are other machines that I would still recommend over this one. They're cheap because nobody really needs them, anymore.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by maxtherabbit »

orange808 wrote: I don't remember if it accepts 480i at all, but I have never liked Extron deinterlacing (anyhow). Even if it does do 480i, the deinterlacing won't be great. It may also apply incorrect deinterlacing to 240p inputs and create some very ugly artifacts.
480i support is touch and go, and it just applies a very basic bob deinterlace

240p is NOT deinterlaced
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Austin
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by Austin »

maxtherabbit wrote:
orange808 wrote: I don't remember if it accepts 480i at all, but I have never liked Extron deinterlacing (anyhow). Even if it does do 480i, the deinterlacing won't be great. It may also apply incorrect deinterlacing to 240p inputs and create some very ugly artifacts.
480i support is touch and go, and it just applies a very basic bob deinterlace

240p is NOT deinterlaced
Correct, and it plays quite nice with oddball refresh rates too, like the 70hz MS-DOS games use. It's very flexible and a good solution for retro PCs, and it helps that it just works immediately. No waiting for resolution switches or anything like that. Can take anything from 320x240 all the way up to (and possibly beyond) 1280x1024.

I can't vouch for consoles because I already have a FM for HD play and capture, and I'd have to get converters to route to the 300A's RGB input which is cumbersome. It is something I wouldn't mind experimenting with some day though. When using retro PCs I also use a VGA splitter, routing one end to the 300A (which then goes to my HDMI capture card), then routing the other to a VGA CRT, so I don't have a lot of experience playing on the HD display and what sort of input lag is introduced. That said, I did dabble with some Wolf 3D going to a HD display when I first got the 300A and it seemed pretty responsive. I didn't have any issues playing (and I play that game fast), but I can't definitively say how it would feel with a game console.

Obviously a scaler like the Tink5X is going to be the ideal choice, however, 300A scalers are still about $60 - $80 on the used market as of this writing, so that's a big money saver for someone on a budget. It might be worth trying, but to the OP, I'd wait for more feedback when it comes to input latency.
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Fudoh
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by Fudoh »

both the RGB-DVI and the RGB-HDMI 300 are actually still really quite good at what they were built for - upscaling odd computer signals.

The missing frame lock doesn't really matter when you're going from a 70Hz VGA source to a 1080p HDMI 60Hz output anyway and with a little bit of fine tuning the hickups for 60Hz to 60Hz handling (let's say Dreamcast to Full HD) are quite rare.

I'm also pretty sure that the unit was full 4:4:4 just like it's successor, the DSC 301.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by maxtherabbit »

The 300 has one frame of lag, also like it's successor
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orange808
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by orange808 »

I stand corrected on chroma . :-)

I recall Extron had an open letter on the website and sent out literature regarding their new found commitment to full chroma some time ago. They made a big deal out of it. I thought Extron made that move as the DSC 301 arrived. I had a 300 A at one point, but I don't know what happened to it. It might be 4:4:4. I can't test it.

For reference, I see the DSC 301 trading recently in America around $30usd to $40usd if frame lock matters. That one is a good companion for an OSSC and we are absolutely certain it's 4:4:4.
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Superior Sephiroth
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by Superior Sephiroth »

It accepts RGBHV and component but does it accept RGBS?
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by maxtherabbit »

I've tested mine with 240p RGBS and it accepts it just fine
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by Dochartaigh »

Does anybody like the 240p upscaling on these though? I like my Extron DSC 301 HD for 480p to 1080p (or when used with an OSSC at 2x: a 960p to 1080p signal), and granted I tried native 240p into it for like a whopping 20 minutes total lol – but that was long enough for me to see that my 240p consoles looked really crappy through it, and never wanted to try it again. I might be on the rare side here too, but the DSC 301 HD is the only upscaler so far that didn't like my particular phat 1CHIP-03 CSYNC SNES (assume because it doesn't have a dejitter mod, but that's just a guess) - which also means it probably didn't like my NESRGB either (w/out dejitter).
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orange808
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by orange808 »

Dochartaigh wrote:Does anybody like the 240p upscaling on these though? I like my Extron DSC 301 HD for 480p to 1080p (or when used with an OSSC at 2x: a 960p to 1080p signal), and granted I tried native 240p into it for like a whopping 20 minutes total lol – but that was long enough for me to see that my 240p consoles looked really crappy through it, and never wanted to try it again. I might be on the rare side here too, but the DSC 301 HD is the only upscaler so far that didn't like my particular phat 1CHIP-03 CSYNC SNES (assume because it doesn't have a dejitter mod, but that's just a guess) - which also means it probably didn't like my NESRGB either (w/out dejitter).
+1
I experienced identical issues with Nintendo sync jitter on recent Extron machines. :-(
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by maxtherabbit »

my SNES is dejittered, so I don't care about jitter tolerance but I agree the scaling is pretty soft
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Das Muel
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by Das Muel »

The 240p scaling's fairly soft but that's a matter of taste. I quite like it. The 300a's great for 480p and also for basically everything my retro pc puts out. It's also really good for the medium resolution arcade boards I have (Virtua Fighter).

I use a Retrotink 5x for 480i and 240p these days, but the 300a for everything else. It's a versatile device and has very solid performance with no major bugs or quirks. I don't know that there's a single signal I've thrown at that it hasn't at least tried to process, and it does a good job with most. Quite underrated I think.
Last edited by Das Muel on Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dochartaigh
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Re: Extron RGB-HDMI 300 A Scaler for retro gaming consoles?

Post by Dochartaigh »

Das Muel wrote:The 240p scaling's fairly soft but that's a matter of taste. I quite like it. The 300a's great for 480p and also for basically everything my retro pc puts out. It's also really good for the medium resolution arcade boards I have (Virtua Fighter). It's a versatile device and has very solid performance with no major bugs or quirks. Quite underrated I think.
I probably wouldn't say underrated, it's just that most looking for something like this would grab the Extron DSC 301 HD instead, with more inputs and better features. Those also go for around $60 all day long (50 pounds), if not cheaper if you setup eBay alerts.
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