Wii component vs Wii U component

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
RebeL9
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:38 am

Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by RebeL9 »

I’ve recently hooked my Wii to my BVM D24. The results are good although a bit soft. I might be wrong but I could swear that it’s even softer than 480p on Gamecube lol.
Anyway I wonder if I would get better results buying a Wii U and using component cables outputting 720p or 1080i instead?
Thanks in advance
Taiyaki
Posts: 1050
Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:31 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by Taiyaki »

Any difference you might see probably won't be discernible on a CRT even a professional one, imo.
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3461
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by bobrocks95 »

Wii U is worse in every way, chroma shift and pixels cut off and I think a couple other things.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by ZellSF »

From everything I've seen the Wii U's HDMI scaled output is pretty bad; I would assume the same holds true for component.

If HDMI is any indicator to go by, you will get a slightly sharper picture, but awful chroma shift in some scenarios. Not worth it.

Pro tip: just play good games. You'll forget quickly that the image is slightly soft.
dojima
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:51 am

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by dojima »

RebeL9 wrote:I might be wrong but I could swear that it’s even softer than 480p on Gamecube lol.
You're not wrong; it's significantly worse.
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by ZellSF »

It should be noted that earlier Wii models had a bug with 480p that can be fixed with homebrew, that made it worse.
https://www.retrorgb.com/wii-480p-video ... vered.html
So Wii might not look quite as terrible as implied here.
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3461
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by bobrocks95 »

The bug is in the official SDK and should affect all models of Wii.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by ZellSF »

There's likely a hardware workaround in RVL-CPU-40+ models:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/wii-480p-vi ... st-8607094
So, no, it's only an issue with older Wii models. If you have a RVL-101 you're probably good.
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3461
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by bobrocks95 »

ZellSF wrote:There's likely a hardware workaround in RVL-CPU-40+ models:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/wii-480p-vi ... st-8607094
So, no, it's only an issue with older Wii models. If you have a RVL-101 you're probably good.
Oh dang, good to know. Interesting since WiiDual was only officially released for 40+ models as I recall, and there was a lot of talk of it bypassing the DAC and that configuration bug and looking better as a result.

I think it continues to speak to people's disappointment with Wii video quality in general that we get so much talk like this.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
User avatar
kitty666cats
Posts: 1270
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:03 am
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by kitty666cats »

Using a HDMI to VGA on Wii-U will allow full range RGB, if that’s relevant to ya. Haha
RebeL9
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by RebeL9 »

ZellSF wrote:There's likely a hardware workaround in RVL-CPU-40+ models:
https://gbatemp.net/threads/wii-480p-vi ... st-8607094
So, no, it's only an issue with older Wii models. If you have a RVL-101 you're probably good.

I have a PAL Revision 50 model. I’m using official component cables. Still feel it’s quite a soft image
fernan1234
Posts: 2175
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by fernan1234 »

RebeL9 wrote:I have a PAL Revision 50 model. I’m using official component cables. Still feel it’s quite a soft image
If you use 480i instead of 480p the picture will be sharper, as sharp as 480i on other Wii models or a Gamecube.
User avatar
BazookaBen
Posts: 2077
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:09 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by BazookaBen »

kitty666cats wrote:Using a HDMI to VGA on Wii-U will allow full range RGB, if that’s relevant to ya. Haha
Pretty sure this isn't true. I don't think Wii U switches to 0-255.

Some HDMI>VGA converters will "upscale", for lack of a better term, 16-235 to full range
RebeL9
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by RebeL9 »

fernan1234 wrote:
RebeL9 wrote:I have a PAL Revision 50 model. I’m using official component cables. Still feel it’s quite a soft image
If you use 480i instead of 480p the picture will be sharper, as sharp as 480i on other Wii models or a Gamecube.
This is outrageous. How the hell did they make 480i sharper than 480p?
fernan1234
Posts: 2175
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by fernan1234 »

RebeL9 wrote:This is outrageous. How the hell did they make 480i sharper than 480p?
In the specific case of the Wii, the interlaced output does not have the bug mentioned above which only affects 480p.

More generally, when using a broadcast CRT monitor (like the one you use) 480i can be and often is sharper than 480p, since 1) CRT technology is best suited for interlaced video (computer graphics and text are another matter) and 2) broadcast CRTs in particular were optimized for interlaced video (both SD and HD), not just at the level of calibration but at the level of design. Progressive pictures on the other hand look sharper compared to CRT on fixed pixel displays that happen to have a native resolution that matches the content (otherwise one or the other may be sharper for a given resolution depending on many factors).

This is all just to say, give 480i a try, you may be surprised. The assumption that 480p is always better for this gen of game consoles comes from the transitional time to LCDs for the most part.
fernan1234
Posts: 2175
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by fernan1234 »

ross wrote:Not sure it's about interlaced vs. progressive. With interlaced video, you often have to deal with flicker filtering anyway and multiformat CRTs can have tubes that seem more suited to progressive video (like the PVM-20L5).
Interlaced video, particularly SD, does have its own disadvantages such as flicker on certain monitors more than others (20L5 is one of the worst at this). On the 20L5 in particular, I wouldn't say it's suited to progressive video, since 1080i on it will still be superior to both 720p and 480p on it, but rather that it's particularly bad at 480i. This is not the case with TC's monitor though, a D24 is excellent with 480i.

A more general disadvantage of SD interlaced video, especially on very sharp and large CRT displays, is combing artifacts (especially on AG tubes), but some may find it acceptable especially for content that is originally interlaced.
ross wrote:You need a digital output feeding a digital display to overcome that.
This will certainly be an advantage for progressive signals in general.
RebeL9
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by RebeL9 »

So is there a way to fix this 480p bug on the Wii?
The information I've read is somewhat conflicting. Some say that the bug is present at the earlier Wii models (6 layers) while other states that its present on all models.
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by ZellSF »

RebeL9 wrote:So is there a way to fix this 480p bug on the Wii?
For Gamecube games I think loading games with either Nintendont or Swiss will work.

For Wii games USB Loader GX or WiiFlow should work.
RebeL9 wrote: The information I've read is somewhat conflicting. Some say that the bug is present at the earlier Wii models (6 layers) while other states that its present on all models.
I mean, you can just try for yourself.

Unless you're considering buying a Wii, in which case buying a later revision is better anyway, why would you want an earlier one?
RebeL9
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by RebeL9 »

ZellSF wrote:
RebeL9 wrote:So is there a way to fix this 480p bug on the Wii?
For Gamecube games I think loading games with either Nintendont or Swiss will work.

For Wii games USB Loader GX or WiiFlow should work.
RebeL9 wrote: The information I've read is somewhat conflicting. Some say that the bug is present at the earlier Wii models (6 layers) while other states that its present on all models.
I mean, you can just try for yourself.

Unless you're considering buying a Wii, in which case buying a later revision is better anyway, why would you want an earlier one?
I already have a Rev-50 model. That's why it's so confusing. That some say it affects all models while other say it affects just the earlier models.
User avatar
Lopenator
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:40 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by Lopenator »

The HDMI mods bypass the bug? I have a 60 model with a Wiihdmi installed in it. Always thought it looked pretty decent.
User avatar
Gunstar
Posts: 617
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:29 am
Location: UK

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by Gunstar »

So if it's not the '480p bug' (as ZellSF pointed out, Extrems believes there's some evidence that it's fixed in post RVL-40s) then could it be that 480p has an overzealous delficker filter? Seems it should be off for some games but for others, like the Resi 4 example in the video below, it's used to blend dithering
Image
^From Wobbling Pixels video turning deflicker off/on (I think they post here too?):
Image
I've not touched my Wii (RVL-50) in a long while but like some others here I've found 480i to look a bit sharper than 480p. Going to have to mess with this when I have some time.
fernan1234
Posts: 2175
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by fernan1234 »

Yeah specific games can apply their own filters, and I guess some can apply a different filter to 480p vs 480i, maybe some were implemented wrong and apply the same filter to both (deflicker) when they shouldn't. I've also seen some games that use a simple blurring filter (or a bilinear filter?) to make things look smoother. In rare cases there's a setting that lets you turn it on/off. You find this kind of thing in PS2 games a lot as well. Dreamcast games pretty much never use filters which is why they look so sharp also in 480p. Not sure about Xbox but I get the sense that it's like the DC.

I'm not surprised if the filter implementation for GC/Wii 480p output by some designers was not ideal, which would be another reason why counter-intuitively 480i will look better on the same CRT if it supports both scan rates.
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by ZellSF »

Flicker filter can usually be turned off with homebrew software, for those who don't know.
User avatar
Gunstar
Posts: 617
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:29 am
Location: UK

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by Gunstar »

fernan1234 wrote:Yeah specific games can apply their own filters, and I guess some can apply a different filter to 480p vs 480i, maybe some were implemented wrong and apply the same filter to both (deflicker) when they shouldn't. I've also seen some games that use a simple blurring filter (or a bilinear filter?) to make things look smoother. In rare cases there's a setting that lets you turn it on/off. You find this kind of thing in PS2 games a lot as well. Dreamcast games pretty much never use filters which is why they look so sharp also in 480p. Not sure about Xbox but I get the sense that it's like the DC.

I'm not surprised if the filter implementation for GC/Wii 480p output by some designers was not ideal, which would be another reason why counter-intuitively 480i will look better on the same CRT if it supports both scan rates.
Yeah, I'm so used to DC's sharp 480p that the softness for Wii's 480p is kind of odd to see, understandable it's there for 6-bit colour/dithered games though. I've been out of the loop for a few years, really need to check out USB Loader GX Enhanced
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by ZellSF »

Not contributing anything to the topic I know, but I find the Wii's component 480p plenty sharp enough, almost too sharp, with 480p fix and deflicker disabled. Certainly worth trying before using lots of money on alternatives.
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3461
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by bobrocks95 »

Disabling the deflicker filter runs into the same issue for me as the 480p fix- I just want to run my discs like normal, but there doesn't seem to be say an IOS level patch that would just automatically do it for all games launched on the disc channel.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by ZellSF »

bobrocks95 wrote:Disabling the deflicker filter runs into the same issue for me as the 480p fix- I just want to run my discs like normal, but there doesn't seem to be say an IOS level patch that would just automatically do it for all games launched on the disc channel.
I mean functionally it's the difference between two clicks (disc channel > launch game*) vs three (install game: no > disc > launch game).

I don't think anyone's going to spend a lot of work on hacking software when there already are better alternatives.

* doesn't appear if you boot with a disc already in.
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3461
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by bobrocks95 »

ZellSF wrote:vs three (install game: no > disc > launch game).
Is that USB Loader GX or what? What about setting up the patch, can you just do it as a global option and it will always apply to any disc, and work for all games, or am I going to get glitches and have to remember when to turn it off/on? Also wouldn't launching the channel turn it into 5 steps?
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by ZellSF »

Most people who softmod their Wii set it to autolaunch USB Loader GX, I think. There's rarely any reason to use the Wii System Menu.

You can set both 480p fix and deflicker as global options, I'm not sure if it remembers discs or not (for setting exceptions). There's a "Safe" and "Extended" option for deflicker, so I guess there are some compatibility caveats, but I would be surprised if there are many titles for which those apply.
fernan1234
Posts: 2175
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Wii component vs Wii U component

Post by fernan1234 »

GX does support per-game settings which override the global settings.
Post Reply