SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
Post Reply
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by TooBeaucoup »

So, apologies for the mildly click-bait title, but I'm just kind of at a loss here. I have Tim Worthington's RGB board in my N64, which is awesome, by the way. However, I've noticed that sometimes when I turn on my N64, I won't get a picture. I thought maybe I did the installation wrong, but realized that wiggling the SCART RGB cable at the N64 multi-out would make the picture come back. With even the slightest wiggle, the picture will cut in and out, and sometimes the colors will just shift in and out. I thoroughly cleaned the multi-out with IPA and then with Deox-IT, and that still didn't help. I thought maybe there was something wrong with the multi-out on my N64, maybe it had gotten worn. So I desoldered it and replaced it with a multi-out from another N64, and the same thing happens! I have three sets of SCART cables, two from Retro Gaming Cables UK, a c-sync and a sync on luma, and also a sync on luma from Retro-Acess. It happens with all three cables.

At that point, for the hell of it, I decided to check my SNES Jr which I've modded with Voultar's RGB board and am currently using HD Retrovision cables with. I found that even wiggling the HD Retrovision cable at the multi-out on my SNES Jr will result in the picture completely cutting out or having shifting colors. Is the multi-out really this sensitive when using an RGB cable? I don't ever remember my N64 or SNES losing picture as a kid or teenager with a standard composite or S-Video cable, even when moving it from the floor to a table or vice versa, which I did a lot. And I'm not talking about vigorously moving the cable. I'm talking about grabbing the SCART or HD Retrovision cable at the plug and even moving it a millimeter to the left or right. The picture seems fine if you move the plug up or down, but any movement side to side either loses picture completely or has colors going in and out. Maybe people have talked about this, but I sure haven't heard any widespread complaints. In fact, many people love using the multi-out connector in their RGB modded NES these days.

Am I just unlucky or a complete dumbass and this is actually a thing that happens?
User avatar
Guspaz
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:37 pm
Location: Montréal, Canada

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by Guspaz »

I can't recall ever having had this issue, I'd imagine your pins are fubar?
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by TooBeaucoup »

Guspaz wrote:I can't recall ever having had this issue, I'd imagine your pins are fubar?
I just don't get it. I replaced the multi-out on the N64, and even my SNES seems to do it. :(
VajSkids Consoles
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:22 am

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by VajSkids Consoles »

I use 8 pin DIN panel mount (C-type) from Jaycar

And Master System RGB SCART cables (C-Type) which are like 5/6 bucks each delivered.
Pop the SCART head open and remove the components/ wire straight through.

The N64 multiouts are ' home made', but ... by the sounds of it, its your cable and not the console.
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3461
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by bobrocks95 »

I guess the question is how official cables work out... I suppose S-Video is the closest you could get though to trying to match the wire count? I think Nintendo cables are fully wired at the multi-out end, but it could be a bit hard when only, what 4 pins are in use on the S-Video end for actual AV data?
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by TooBeaucoup »

VajSkids Consoles wrote:I use 8 pin DIN panel mount (C-type) from Jaycar

And Master System RGB SCART cables (C-Type) which are like 5/6 bucks each delivered.
Pop the SCART head open and remove the components/ wire straight through.

The N64 multiouts are ' home made', but ... by the sounds of it, its your cable and not the console.
It's just odd that I can recreate the issue with four different cables, three SCART cables, and a set of component cables, on two different consoles, the N64 and SNES.
bobrocks95 wrote:I guess the question is how official cables work out... I suppose S-Video is the closest you could get though to trying to match the wire count? I think Nintendo cables are fully wired at the multi-out end, but it could be a bit hard when only, what 4 pins are in use on the S-Video end for actual AV data?
That was my plan, I think I'll dig out my S-Video cable and give that a wiggle and see if I have the same issues.

EDIT: So, I just hooked up my S-Video cable and I do not get video dropouts with the N64 or SNES. In fact, I can rock this S-Video cable side to side extremely aggressively, and the picture stays perfect, but even barely moving these RGB cables causes dropouts on both consoles. My S-Video cable has far less pins inside of the multi-out head which seems pretty obvious. For whatever reason, some of those additional pins in the RGB multi-out heads must be losing contact. It's just very confusing to me that all four cables suffer from the problem and on both the N64 and SNES. :?
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3461
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by bobrocks95 »

Do any of those cables use an injection-molded connector or are they all 3D printed like the Retro-Access? Is the s-video cable OEM and does it fit tighter than the 3rd party cables? Could just be poor manufacturing tolerance on these cables.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by TooBeaucoup »

bobrocks95 wrote:Do any of those cables use an injection-molded connector or are they all 3D printed like the Retro-Access? Is the s-video cable OEM and does it fit tighter than the 3rd party cables? Could just be poor manufacturing tolerance on these cables.
Actually, none of them are 3D printed. They're all hard plastic, like the factory SNES cables. I don't know who supplies these, but it almost looks like every one of my cable makers sourced the plugs from a similar place. In fact, the S-Video cables, I bought from some random guy on E-bay who makes them. I'd actually say the S-Video cable seems to fit more loose than all the other cables. Even weirder, everyone loves HD Retrovision cables, and I've never heard complaints, but even those, the picture cuts out with a slight side to side wiggle.
User avatar
Rulumi
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:40 am

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by Rulumi »

I can't recall having any problems when using RGB on the SFC or SNES either.
I also haven't had problems with S-Video, although my S-Video cable is an official HORI one.
User avatar
Pikkon
Posts: 118
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 6:25 am
Location: Florida

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by Pikkon »

I have a official super famicom jp21 cable that I rewired for regular scart and rocking the cable back and forth on my rgb n64 has no drop outs,same with my other scart cable I made years ago but this one has a more snug fit.
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by TooBeaucoup »

Pikkon wrote:I have a official super famicom jp21 cable that I rewired for regular scart and rocking the cable back and forth on my rgb n64 has no drop outs,same with my other scart cable I made years ago but this one has a more snug fit.
Damn, that's so weird, at least for me. Well, I just ordered an Insurrection Industries SNES SCART cable (Also a reputable company). Maybe 5th cable is the charm. I'm just going to smash my N64 and SNES to pieces if this cable does the same thing. :lol:
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by TooBeaucoup »

OK, I have a conclusion to this gripping drama. It turns out I was wrong about the HD Retrovision cables. They work perfect on both the N64 and SNES. I just didn't have the plug pushed in all the way. What I found was, this HD Retrovision cable definitely has a slightly bigger multi-out plug (The portion with pins that slides in) than my other three cables, probably like a half a millimeter to one millimeter wider. It's completely unnoticeable to the naked eye. All of my SCART cables were purchased around 2017 (So quite a while ago). Wherever Retro-Access and Retro Gaming Cables UK got these mult-out connectors at the time, clearly, the tolerances were off. Considering I got them all very close together, I wouldn't doubt if both companies got them from the same place.

I took my desoldered multi-out port and plugged all of my cables into it. All of my SCART cables rock back and forth very easily and noticeably (Very easy to see when you have a desoldered multi-out port in your hand). They are not snug at all. This HD Retrovision cable makes a pretty audible click when pushed in and does not move at all. Pretty disappointing since I'm just noticing this now and none of these cables can be returned and are expensive as hell, but what do ya do? Hopefully, this Insurrection SCART cable I have coming is the proper size. I'd imagine it will be.
User avatar
Guspaz
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:37 pm
Location: Montréal, Canada

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by Guspaz »

Ste did a blog post years ago about the trouble HDRV went through trying to find a decent Playstation connector. How nobody made connectors using the same style of pins as Sony did, and how hard it was to find one that had a good insertion force:

https://www.hdretrovision.com/blog/2017 ... on-journey

I doubt most cable vendors go through quite the same rigor as they do.
thchardcore
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:20 am
Location: Liberal cesspool

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by thchardcore »

The 3rd party PS multi connectors all fit way too tight and will literally crack the PS2 multi in as the surround is plastic (and not metal like the PS1).

For the Nintendo multi connectors, the issue for me has been the cheapo cords. That's awesome the manufacturer used a strain relief but it's pointless if your rubber is more like plastic and breaks off at the point of the strain relief. :roll:

For the Nintendo multi pins themselves, you could try quickly adding a bit of solder at low temp to raise the pins slightly for a snugger fit. I've done this with the gamecube SD2SP2 boards that would fall out as soon as you flipper the console back over.
Last edited by thchardcore on Wed May 18, 2022 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A camel is a horse designed by a committee
User avatar
Sumez
Posts: 8019
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:11 am
Location: Denmarku
Contact:

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by Sumez »

I have a lot of different consoles using the multi AV (modded NES, AV Famicom, several SNES'es, two N64s, and a GameCube) and have never had such an issue with them.
Of course, that's purely anecdotal, but in comparison I've had the issue with several PlayStations as well as the mini din in almost every MegaDrive model 2 I've met.

A bigger issue I have with the Multi AV is the dangerous ambiguity of pin 3
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by TooBeaucoup »

Guspaz wrote:Ste did a blog post years ago about the trouble HDRV went through trying to find a decent Playstation connector. How nobody made connectors using the same style of pins as Sony did, and how hard it was to find one that had a good insertion force:

https://www.hdretrovision.com/blog/2017 ... on-journey

I doubt most cable vendors go through quite the same rigor as they do.
Now that you mention it, I remember them talking about this connector issue at the time.
thchardcore wrote:The 3rd party PS multi connectors all fit way too tight and will literally crack the PS2 multi in as the surround is plastic (and not metal like the PS1).

For the Nintendo multi connectors, the issue for me has been the cheapo cords. That's awesome the manufacturer used a strain relief but it's pointless if your rubber is more like plastic and breaks off at the point of the strain relief. :roll:
I've had cords crack or start to come apart near the plug or point of stress. That's another issue in itself. Weird that cables seem to be such an issue to get decent ones made.
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2310
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by Konsolkongen »

Nintendo's connector design is probably one of their greatest achievements in console design. That's really not saying much, but plugging in a SNES controller is super satisfying :mrgreen:

I've had no issues using the AV multi out with original cables. Din sucks, I regularly have to make small adjustments and/or spray with contact cleaner on consoles that use those connectors. For a while I even went so far as to change the din socket on my Mega Drive 1 for a male 8 pin aviation one instead. I am now using a Hirschmann plug instead, and while not as rock solid as the aviation plug, it's noticeably better than the cheap no name din plugs I've used in the past.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/265676711397?ha ... SwhjpicnZb
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by TooBeaucoup »

OK, my SCART cable from Insurrection Industries arrived, and it works great. I get a nice, stable picture when giving it a little side to side jiggle. No picture loss at all. It doesn't fit as snug as this HD Retrovision cable, but it's much tighter than my other 3 from Retro-Access and Retro Gaming Cables UK. Sheesh, what a freakin' ordeal!
User avatar
Syntax
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by Syntax »

Made me go check the cables I recently made with connectors from Console5.
Snug as a bug in a rug :)
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by TooBeaucoup »

Syntax wrote:Made me go check the cables I recently made with connectors from Console5.
Snug as a bug in a rug :)
It's good to know, for future reference, theirs are reliable.
RocketBelt
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:46 pm

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by RocketBelt »

I've had an n64 scart cable from Retro Gaming Cables UK with no issues. Bought a few years back.
Also had svideo cables (pal and ntsc) from consolegoods.co.uk that fit fine.
neorichieb1971
Posts: 7668
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:28 am
Location: Bedford, UK
Contact:

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by neorichieb1971 »

I bought a SNES retrovision component cable and when I first used it I got a red image only. Then with all my strength I pushed it in as hard as I could and saw flicking of the full image come in and out. Just one little vibration and it lost it again. I paid a fortune for that cable as I live in the UK, paid high shipping, high taxation and the cable was already $50. I bought another Super Famicom and the same deal.

If I plug other cables it works absolutely fine. This is the only issue i've had the Nintendo AV output. Sounds more like a cable issue to me.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
RocketBelt
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:46 pm

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by RocketBelt »

Sounds like there was a bad batch of ill-fitting connectors made, and TooBeaucoup got unlucky as all his cables were made with them.
User avatar
TooBeaucoup
Posts: 398
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am

Re: SNES/N64 multi-out sucks??

Post by TooBeaucoup »

RocketBelt wrote:Sounds like there was a bad batch of ill-fitting connectors made, and TooBeaucoup got unlucky as all his cables were made with them.
You could be right. I got them all within a fairly short time from one and the other, and they really move around. These most recent sets are much more snug.
Post Reply