Can't wrap my head around upscaling, so here's an example

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ZTylerDurden
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Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:10 pm

Can't wrap my head around upscaling, so here's an example

Post by ZTylerDurden »

Let's say I have a 4K tv connected to a Retrotink5x that doesn't have 4K support. Retrotink5x currently supports up to 1440p. Let's say my 4K tv supports 1440p resolution.

When I get a video feed at 1440p and go to my TV's OSD to check "display status" or whatever it might be called, what resolution will my TV tell me I'm in? 1440p/60hz?

If that's what my OSD is telling me, isn't my tv using its own upscaler to "fill up the screen" 1440p->4k? Therefore, I'm subject to the tv's potential upscale lag regardless of using the retrotink5x?
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bobrocks95
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Re: Can't wrap my head around upscaling, so here's an exampl

Post by bobrocks95 »

Yes, but TV upscaling isn't really laggy for most any modern display. Check rtings or some other source but I'd be surprised if any 4K display on the market had more than a millisecond or two difference between native and non-native inputs.
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ZTylerDurden
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Re: Can't wrap my head around upscaling, so here's an exampl

Post by ZTylerDurden »

Thanks for confirming that.

This is surprising, to be honest. For example, Bob's retrorgb channel is based on educating folks to avoid using your tv's inherent upscaler because most have lag. Now, I'm learning that modern display built-in upscalers don't have that bad of lag?
EnragedWhale
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Re: Can't wrap my head around upscaling, so here's an exampl

Post by EnragedWhale »

ZTylerDurden wrote:Thanks for confirming that.

This is surprising, to be honest. For example, Bob's retrorgb channel is based on educating folks to avoid using your tv's inherent upscaler because most have lag. Now, I'm learning that modern display built-in upscalers don't have that bad of lag?
The issue isn’t scaling already high resolution, progressive signals. Its deinterlacing 480i and 240p (most displays will treat 240p as if it’s 480i) and that’s very laggy and often with combing artefacts. Most modern 4K displays deal with 720p upwards pretty well without a lag penalty. 480p can be more hit a miss and is often a very soft scale in my experience.
gray117
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Re: Can't wrap my head around upscaling, so here's an exampl

Post by gray117 »

ZTylerDurden wrote:For example, Bob's retrorgb channel is based on educating folks to avoid using your tv's inherent upscaler because most have lag. Now, I'm learning that modern display built-in upscalers don't have that bad of lag?
This is generally good advice... but yes I'd say in general in the last 5 years the chips in the tvs have gotten a lot better. Similarly there used to be some extremely poor input lags, most tvs these days from almost anyone half reputable with a game mode will be just fine. Hell 10 years ago even decent colours wasn't a given on some half reputable brands...

Now, you still won't get good low res game scaling; as pointed out de-interlacing can be a crap shoot, and it'll be a blurry mess even if it is fast, because this is still really about the AV/TV look and although they want to avoid complaints about issues with audio sync, the fact is they also want to avoid complaints about jaggies/pixels...

... but, yeah, turns out there are some advantages to the constant annual churn in tv models - they are generally getting better.

... who knows maybe one day someone in tv manufacturer land may even opt for gamer friendly integer scaling and/or prescale options.... I think there are a few monitors that offer this now....
ZTylerDurden
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Re: Can't wrap my head around upscaling, so here's an exampl

Post by ZTylerDurden »

Excellent. Finally makes sense. My retro console is a DC so I was concentrated on 480p. Totally makes sense that 240p and 480i can get screwy with modern displays.

This makes me feel better about my old Dell monitor's vga signal processing 480p. Probably a minimal hit on display lag.


Appreciate the responses and insight on modern tv performance.
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