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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:49 am 


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Indeed out of those three I only own the Master System and it's a power base converter (no problem).


:shock: You have that and you don't even need to manually adjust AFC??

Yep I changed my mind, you do have some sort of magical, one of a kind XRGB3 :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:03 pm 


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Fudoh and others,

what are your opinions about AV recievers like Onkyo ? They are upscalers aswell nowadays. Why buying for Composite Video upscaling a DVDO instead of a av reciever who can do even more maybe?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:20 pm 


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- deinterlacing and scaling is optimized for video, not graphics.
- no proper 240p handling. Possibly no 240p support at all.
- high processing lag.
- no extensive video options (no overscan control, no variable zoom controls etc).


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:17 pm 


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ok I'm tending to buy a SCALER DVDO IScan VP50

now when I want to connect my XRGB-3 unit via VGA output to bnc via this adapter then the unit will spit out the image in HDMI?

Image


Image

or should I more likely look out for a DVDO unit which already has VGA in? any cheap recomendations ?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:34 pm 


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that's alright. The earlier DVDOs with physical HD15 VGA inputs were passthrough only.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:07 am 


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so vp50pro is the machine to get

the analog video bnc inputs do provide via VGA adapter output via HDMI so I can hook my xrgb with scanlines to it.

how is the LAG for gaming?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:55 am 


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how is the LAG for gaming?

6-7ms


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:22 am 



Joined: 22 Nov 2015
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Hello everyone! Its my first post at the Shmups forum!! :D

Thanks to everyone for all the help youve given to retro gamers by keeping this forum so alive!!

I had a similar problem mentioned by skips regarding background noise in dark areas on his xrgb mini... First noticed it in B1 mode and scanlines enabled on the XRGB3 ...

Went back to XRGB3 to re-test in B1 (i always use B1) and upon turning scanlines down to 0% the noise went away ... the noise kicks in for certain shades of black or greyish tones almost as soon as i turn the scanline intensity up even by a one or two fractions... (Tested dreamcast and slg3000 and got same noise)... So it was the SCANLINES!! ... But there is a workaround if you want to keep scanlines - adjust brightness, gamma and black level via xrgb3 menu to minimize the noise. Also adjust the displays settings for brightness in particular to get the best 'harmony' of settings between xrgb3 and display. Sometimes i can get rid of the apparent 'noise' completely sometimes not depending on the game/source but usually it can be minimized greatly and mostly unnoticeable when adjusted well... also i think that by not having scanlines too intense helps to lessen the noise in dark backgrounds.

What skips described may be caused by something different but sounded very similar and reminded me of this issue!! For me too it was always black/dark grey backgrounds that were the probelm. Apart from that i have not noticed instability in dark backgrounds on xrgb3 or any real problems. It needs clean sync for 21pin so it doesnt cut out during bright flashes (cuts out for a fraction of a second only) but thats it... I use vga input2... its brilliant as a linedoubler - horizontal scaling in B1 even for the unusual Capcom 384 horizontal resolution is resolved marvelously.. Tested the xrgb3 B1 scalines and also dreamcast with slg3000 on a different display and the dark background instability or noise wasnt an issue... So this was more a scanlines - display incompatibility.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:18 pm 



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So last night I got a XBR55X810C Sony HDTV (fucking amazing TV by the way) and want to get the XRGB-3's B1 mode working on it (B0's scaling is utter garbage and hideous looking). I am basically looking at two devices to accomplish this. Here are the two devices.

https://www.radioshack.com/products/rad ... 5717012421

http://frys.com/product/7386674?site=sr ... IN_RSLT_PG

amazingly enough I have actually never had to convert VGA to HDMI or Component in the past since I usually just use PC monitors for everything. I am wondering what the best path for the XRGB-3 would be.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:20 pm 


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^ This: http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Authority-Component-Transcoder-Audio/dp/B00ASVXAFI

Although I have no idea if the current X models handle the SD/analogue scaling to 4K well or not...
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:27 pm 



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Xyga wrote:
^ This: http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Authority-Component-Transcoder-Audio/dp/B00ASVXAFI

Although I have no idea if the current X models handle the SD/analogue scaling to 4K well or not...


This TV handles 480p up-scaling INCREDIBLY well. I am actually really impressed with the TV. Even 240p over composite video has almost not feel-able lag although it looks like shit because its composite video. I will give VGA to component video a try, I just wasn't sure if VGA to component video or VGA to HDMI would be the best option. Thanks though!
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:37 pm 


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Definitely VGA to Component. The Audio Authority is one of the last known good transcoders still available/manufactured.
There are other choices though, I'd guess the Micomsoft X-Select D4 is even better and a fantastic pairing with the XRGB3 as Fudoh suggested.

Someone's selling his in the trading station, but it might be a bit late to get it...
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:34 pm 


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Looking for some advice on pairing a Wii + XRGB-3 + Mini-SLG

This setup's relevant for getting scanlines on:
(1) a bunch of 480p/480i-only WiiWare games that the Wii renders as line-doubled 240p (e.g., Castlevania/Gradius/Contra ReBirth, Mega Man 10, Retro City Rampage, etc.)
(2) N64 Virtual Console titles (also 480p/480i-only, but these contain a bunch of doubled 240p elements that look better with scanlines)

So I have a Mini-SLG after the XRGB-3 (running in B1 mode) to add in the scanlines for these two kinds of games. But Mini-SLG wants 640x480 whereas the XRGB-3's outputting 720x480. My current solution has a Gefen scaler after the XRGB-3; the Gefen recognizes the 720x480 and outputs 640x480 DVI, a passive DVI->VGA adapter then connects to the Mini-SLG before finally the TV.

I don't like using the Gefen because (1) it adds some lag, (2) it's powered and always on, and (3) it's horizontally compressing the 720px lines into 640px, where ideally I'd rather just crop 40px from both ends of the 720px to obtain my 640px.

Are there any means of converting the RGBHV signal from 720x480 to 640x480 via cropping the sides (preferably unpowered and lag-free)?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:56 pm 


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But Mini-SLG wants 640x480 whereas the XRGB-3's outputting 720x480. My current solution has a Gefen scaler after the XRGB-3; the Gefen recognizes the 720x480 and outputs 640x480 DVI, a passive DVI->VGA adapter then connects to the Mini-SLG before finally the TV.

Your MiniSLG doesn't care nor see if the actual resolution is 720x480 or 640x480. Where did you get that idea ?

Quote:
Are there any means of converting the RGBHV signal from 720x480 to 640x480 via cropping the sides (preferably unpowered and lag-free)?

no. You can use an iScan HD/HD+. That's the cheapest full blown scaler to support that kind of operation at minimal lag (6ms).

Marqs' OSSC would be a better idea as it takes 31khz VGA (or component) adds scanlines to it and outputs as HDMI. Unless there's a reason why you want to stay analogue ?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:22 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
But Mini-SLG wants 640x480 whereas the XRGB-3's outputting 720x480.

Your MiniSLG doesn't care nor see if the actual resolution is 720x480 or 640x480. Where did you get that idea ?


Not an idea---an observation! When I try connecting the Mini-SLG directly to the XRGB-3's VGA output, the Mini-SLG's scanline feature doesn't work. But as I described above, its scanline output works fine after down-sampling to 640x480 with the Gefen. To double-check, I tried outputting both resolutions from my Windows PC (720x480 and 640x480) and found, again, that the MiniSLG doesn't provide scan for 720x480 but does for 640x480. The Mini-SLG's documentation states (http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/scan- ... i-slg.html):

"Best results are obtained at 640x480* resolution (1024x768* is also supported). Other resolutions will pass-through the adapter, resulting in a normal display."

So I guess this behavior is expected...

Quote:
Quote:
Are there any means of converting the RGBHV signal from 720x480 to 640x480 via cropping the sides (preferably unpowered and lag-free)?

no. You can use an iScan HD/HD+. That's the cheapest full blown scaler to support that kind of operation at minimal lag (6ms).

Marqs' OSSC would be a better idea as it takes 31khz VGA (or component) adds scanlines to it and outputs as HDMI. Unless there's a reason why you want to stay analogue ?


Thanks for the advice, much appreciated!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:29 am 


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So I guess this behavior is expected...

no, it's not. It's a sync polarity issue then. So what you need isn't a scaler, it's a polarity switch. You can use an Extron interface for that. From $20 on ebay.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:58 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
So I guess this behavior is expected...

no, it's not. It's a sync polarity issue then. So what you need isn't a scaler, it's a polarity switch. You can use an Extron interface for that. From $20 on ebay.


Looks like no Extron is needed---simply inverting the vertical polarity setting in XRGB-3's menu did the trick (horizontal polarity need not be changed). So now I can sucessfully feed XRGB-3's output directly into MiniSLG for adding scanlines to 480p content.

Thanks Fudoh for your helpful diagnosis of this issue! Would never have figured that out myself :D


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:35 am 



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I just tried my XRGB-3 with my N64 (composite) and tried Star Fox 64, It seems to cause the XRGB-3 to lose sync with the console whenever there is lots of bright white on screen, it happens with certain explosions here and there, and most significantly when ever you fire a bomb it happens, Which makes it unplayable. It's not a composite problem as it happened with my genesis through rgb with sonic 2 when you enter a special stage. And it only happens with b1 mode the analog line doubler, b0 the digital scaler seems to be unaffected.

is this a known issue? is there any way around it? and is there any other low-lag analog line doublers that dont have this problem?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:45 pm 


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any benefit for getting a DVDO Edge over a DVDO VP50 pro?!


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:57 pm 


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No. In our day and age only look at the the vp50pro. Make sure it's coming with a power supply in perfect shape and you've got the best 'addon' to any linedoubler of the 'pre-Mini' XRGB family.

But if you've got a really good TV set like a Sony W series (there's a dedicated thread about those) even a vp50pro is optional. In place of a DVDO a good VGA to Component transcoder will do, or even a VGA to HDMI.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:52 pm 


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dead_screem wrote:
Is this a known issue? is there any way around it?


IIRC, this is a known issues with the signal level during bright white screen. The same thing happens with my Saturn. Not sure if there's a fix.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:53 pm 


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I just tried my XRGB-3 with my N64 (composite) and tried Star Fox 64, It seems to cause the XRGB-3 to lose sync with the console whenever there is lots of bright white on screen


Well known and documented on the wiki. Use RGB with clean sync or luma for sync usually cures it.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:38 am 



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I turned my XRGB-3 on tonight for the first time in awhile and I'm noticing an audible hum from my speakers that wasn't there before. I can't hear it when there is music playing in-game, but it is very noticeable when the game audio goes silent for any period of time. I hear the hum regardless of source (tested both my NES and Jaguar) and out of both outputs (Rear Line Out and Front Headphone Out). I tried all the obvious troubleshooting... re-seating cables, switching cables, etc, but nothing seems to make any difference. Is there anything else I can possibly do to fix this?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:02 am 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Quote:
I just tried my XRGB-3 with my N64 (composite) and tried Star Fox 64, It seems to cause the XRGB-3 to lose sync with the console whenever there is lots of bright white on screen


Well known and documented on the wiki. Use RGB with clean sync or luma for sync usually cures it.


I can confirm, that using clean-sync I was able to eliminate the signal drop-out problem with white-screen transitions.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:08 am 



Joined: 18 Apr 2013
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I am revisiting the xrgb-3 atm and I was wondering if there is yet a fix for pc engine duo/r? I still have the distorsion on the top with doujindance and an otaku store modded duo-r.the AFC setting is helping a bit but not curing it 100%.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:35 pm 


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XRGB-3 has been discontinued.

Micomsoft has a few dozen units left in stock that are available for sale. No more units will be produced.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:58 pm 


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amaradona wrote:
I am revisiting the xrgb-3 atm and I was wondering if there is yet a fix for pc engine duo/r? I still have the distorsion on the top with doujindance and an otaku store modded duo-r.the AFC setting is helping a bit but not curing it 100%.


The only fix I know of is to replace your XRGB-3 with a XRGB-mini. :?

Fudoh wrote:
XRGB-3 has been discontinued.

Micomsoft has a few dozen units left in stock that are available for sale. No more units will be produced.


Is this any indication that we will see a XRGB-4, or is Micomsoft still content with selling the XRGB-mini? I hope they will provide a 2160p solution within the next year.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:56 pm 



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Not exactly certain on that. The recent driver debacle with capture cards may potentially put a stint into that. Who knows at this point?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:02 pm 


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Is this any indication that we will see a XRGB-4, or is Micomsoft still content with selling the XRGB-mini? I hope they will provide a 2160p solution within the next year.

no way. I see potential for something simpler in 2017 and maybe a bigger processor in 2019 or 2020. Right now the Mini the selling at a solid and steady rate and unless that changes they wouldn't think about releasing anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:13 am 


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My XRGB-3 is exhibiting some strange behavior and I am not sure what to do about it. After not using my XRGB-3 for quite sometime now, I booted it up and fed a video signal into it.

The display is flickering and very staticy / shakey. It is constantly flipping between 525i and 525p modes, and this is happening through any input video source. It basically looks like a really bad VCR/VHS tape output. Very chaotic. I tried both S-Video and D-Terminal in on the front D3 input. The signal looks like this when connected to both a CRT Monitor and an Extron Scan converter outputting to an SDTV. So its not the displays.

When this is happening, any attempt to access the XRGB-3's menu is interrupted, as if the system is constantly resetting. However, when no video signal is fed into the unit, the menu is accessible just fine.

I fear something is horribly wrong :/ Would an internal menu setting have causes this type of behavior? I can't remember changing any settings that would cause this.

I did recently rewire my space with Furman M-8X2 Power Conditioners and Furman SS6B Power Strips. *scratches head* But this tech is supposed to provide a cleaner overall power setup. I hope nothing strange happened to the XRGB-3 plugging it into these.

The last thing I remember using my XRGB-3 for was to test out my newly acquired XSelect-D4 to verify the improvement of PS2 signal processing.

EDIT: It seems I am having the same issue as strider77: viewtopic.php?p=1123501#p1123501

These videos posted by ikaruga007 reflect the same issue I am having:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8l4Gk1OTFk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMLyu1YvhVg

So it seems this is a capacitor issue in the XRGB-3's PSU. My Furman units are 120V 60hz. Could connecting my XRGB-3 to this blow the capacitors? or was this just something that happens over time with the XRGB-3's PSU? I/P on the XRGB-3's PSU says 100-120V 50/60hz. Same with the XSelect-D4. These always worked just fine in the past. Should I have been using something similar to a Step Down Transformer to ensure safe operation of the unit?

Any further insight into this issue would be greatly helpful. Thanks!
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