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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:07 pm 


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What the info screen say for the input resolution = 640x480 or 720x480 (=480p) ? Tried the automatic adjustment ? Unfortunately I haven't a grey unit on hand yet for trying.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:22 pm 


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Set the XRGB's polarity's to inverted. Gefen properly reads the resolution as 640x480. Proper ratio (as far as I can tell, been a while since I've used a 4:3 set), with uneven scaling.

em0ti0n wrote:
It works with its default 1024x768 resolution, at least on my XRGB3 + Gefen combo.


Huh. The image's quality's very close to Konsolkongen's picture, but the Gefen sees the XRGB as 720x480, the picture's slightly compressed horizontally, and there's some uneven scaling. Every 7th or 8th "line" is thicker and blurred -- okay, figured it out; those are NTSC DC artifacts. Wow, Konsolokongen's setup has it completely calmed. :shock:

Changing the following resolutions in B1 causes the Gefen to re-sync; 640x480, 1024x768, 1080x1920. Weird.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:15 pm 


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My Genesis Model 1's now jailbar free!!! :shock: I lifted pin 50 on the VDP 315-5313 as per Link83's instructions; http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... tcount=137

I had already lifted pin 6 on the Sony CXA1145 chip... it helped somewhat, but it was still bad. While the stripes were most noticeable in the color blue, if you play around with image settings you'll see that they're actually present through the entire picture. So this is worth investigating.


Last edited by SGGG2 on Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:22 pm 


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SGGG2 wrote:
My Gefen broke, so I picked up another one; gray with firmware 4.9. Unfortunately, the scaling is uneven as above. I have both of the XRGB-3's polarity output set to inverted, are there any other settings I should know about?


It actually matters which console you have hooked up to your XRGB-3. The Saturn looks 1:1 perfect on my screen but if I use my MegaDrive I get a little bit of moire patterns on the Gefen again.

If you have a Saturn try setting your XRGB-3 to 640x480 mode and change the phase option on the Gefen to 99.

EDIT: And yes lifting pin 50 on the MD1's VPD helps a lot! I'm Bearking on Assembler.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:47 pm 


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I have a problem that I can rotate my LCD Monitor only in 1 direction to TATE Mode. (Clockwise)

Many games do only support on direction if so counter clockwise.

Is there any possibility to rotate the image manually with another converter?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:07 pm 


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viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38531

or just unscrew your monitor from your stand, turn it and re-attach it. It will rotate the other way around afterwards...


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:18 pm 



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After tracking down my problem with the missing blue input on the "GAME IN" port to a faulty AN15865 video switch IC and some very generous help from Konsolkongen in replacing the part it seems that unfortunately the same has happened again. Although this time the only thing I have plugged into the "GAME IN" port since replacing the AN15865 is my PS2 via my home made 21 pin RGB cable.

I haven't had chance to check the home made 21 pin RGB cable yet as I super glued it together when I made it which makes it difficult to check at this point without completely destroying it but to be on the safe side I doubt I will use it again anyway.

The worst part though is that it seems that the AN15865 video switch IC has been discontinued and Digikey, the one place that previously sold them is out of stock now.

Does anyone here know of any other electronic component distributors that have these in stock?

EDIT: I managed to take the scart cable apart without too much trouble in the end and the problem was that I didn't insulate the legs on the caps and the one connected to the blue pin also touches the blue ground pin sometimes if moved slightly like when plugging it into a scart socket :roll:

I also noticed that the scart cable has no shielding between the audio and video wires. I'm supprised that I didn't notice this when I origianlly modified it to 21 pin RGB and it probably didn't help with the excessive noise problem that I have had when using the PS2 with the XRGB-3.

Now I just need to find another AN15865 from somewhere. Also a decent PS2 scart cable with shielding for a reasonable price would be nice as the official PS2 scart is going for anything upto £65 on ebay at the moment :shock:


Last edited by kel on Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:13 am 



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So, question:

Should I use scanlines? I always thought that throwing scanlines on the game was stupid, because then you've just got a bunch of lines on the picture so it's like you're getting half the image.

But then I realized that I was probably wrong. Maybe that's how it's supposed to be due to the way these old-ass games were designed!

Point is, I tried turning on scanlines and playing some Battle Garegga, and I've never seen the game look so good. So is it basically "proper" to use scanlines on these games, or is it just a nostalgia thing?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:43 am 


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It is a debatable subject. CRT monitors when used in 15khz mode, just as these games do, produce scanlines because of the natural 2x scaling that is taking place. However, they are only noticeable on monitors bigger than 24" as far as I can tell.

I love using them, since I believe them to be an integral part of the image (each pixel is duplicated horizontally when drawn on the CRT and every other line skipped). Some however, believe that to be a limitation and want to go for complete pixel doubling.

It is a matter of choice in the end, since 240p is not a documented part of the NTSC standard.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:26 am 


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kel wrote:
After tracking down my problem with the missing blue input on the "GAME IN" port to a faulty AN15865 video switch IC and some very generous help from Konsolkongen in replacing the part it seems that unfortunately the same has happened again. Although this time the only thing I have plugged into the "GAME IN" port since replacing the AN15865 is my PS2 via my home made 21 pin RGB cable.


Hey kel. Sorry to hear that this has happened to your XRGB-3 again :( I have two AN15865's left and I just want one for myself in case mine dies again at some point, but you can have the other one :)

PM me for details.

Quote:
EDIT: I managed to take the scart cable apart without too much trouble in the end and the problem was that I didn't insulate the legs on the caps and the one connected to the blue pin also touches the blue ground pin sometimes if moved slightly like when plugging it into a scart socket :roll:


Crazy that shorting the blue with GND could be enough to brick the video switcher chip in your XRGB-3. It really is a sensitive IC it seems :(


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:33 am 



Joined: 22 Dec 2010
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Konsolkongen wrote:
Hey kel. Sorry to hear that this has happened to your XRGB-3 again :( I have two AN15865's left and I just want one for myself in case mine dies again at some point, but you can have the other one :)

PM me for details.


Hi Konsolkongen, that is very kind of you, thankyou.

It was very frustrating to turn on the XRGB-3 and see the blue missing again :(

Hopefully now that I have found the cause though this should never happen again.


Konsolkongen wrote:
Crazy that shorting the blue with GND could be enough to brick the video switcher chip in your XRGB-3. It really is a sensitive IC it seems :(


I agree, surely a fault as small as that should not do any damage. You're right though it is a sensitive IC, Katsuhiro said as much in one of his emails to me last time I had this problem. I could imagine that Micomsoft have probably had to repair a few like this in the past. Although in this case admitedly it was my own fault for not insulating a connector properly that I had modified.

It would be good idea if possible that I get hold of a handfull of these chips in the future before they become completely obsolete. That way if anybody here ever finds themselves in the same situation inculding you and I then at least we would not be stuck without a way to replace them.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:09 am 



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edit: taking to pm


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:54 pm 



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Posts: 24
i did a rough google search for the chip, this is what i found
http://www.chinaicmart.com/series-AN1/A ... pplierList
maybe that helps? (dont slap me if it did not..)


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:17 pm 



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Posts: 205
CrackLtd wrote:
i did a rough google search for the chip, this is what i found
http://www.chinaicmart.com/series-AN1/A ... pplierList
maybe that helps? (dont slap me if it did not..)


Thanks for taking a look.

I suppose it wouldn't do any harm for me to try to request a quote from 1 of those suppliers although I get the impression that they are probably more used to dealing with large OEM companies and bulk orders as opposed to hobbyists and enthusiasts and I was only looking to buy 4 or 5 ICs.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:28 pm 



Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 19
still experimenting on why the picture has nicer colours in b0 than in b1. it`s not only the resolution. b0 in 640x480 still has better colours than b1, so it`s obviously the tv`s fault. damn, now I have to consider getting a gefen or a dvdo edge.


Last edited by Eggy on Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:52 pm 


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What consoles are you testing with? Be sure and check the D/A conversion setting in B1 before you jump to conclusions.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:45 pm 



Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 19
n64(rgb mod), snes, wii, wii in gamecube mode->the picture is always less colourful than via hdmi. I reduced adc to 150, but it barely changes the picture.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:21 pm 


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So you are using DVI to HDMI cables for B0 and VGA for B1?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:47 pm 


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Try a lower D/A setting. I have to set mine around 45 or so. I had a similar issue where the colors in B0 (DVI) looked more vibrant than B1 (VGA). Turns out it was the TV, the color's fine when chained into another upscaler.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:48 pm 



Joined: 18 May 2009
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When i connect my NeoGeo Arcadeboard (MV-1FZ) i get some Inteferences. Its some kind of wave moving in the background slowly up, sometimes changes direction then moves slowly down across the whole picture. I took a snapshot of that here:

Image

I entered the green Cheatmenu of the Unibios to make those waves more visible for the photo. Beside that waves interference the picture is near to perfect. To get the waves fixed Markus B. offered me to help. What would be your guesses to fix that?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:10 pm 


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That's bad shielding on the MVS RGB mod or a bad RGB cable.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:17 pm 


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I've noticed that the RGB output on some arcade PCBs is noisier than others. What does the connection from the JAMMA harness to your XRGB-3 look like? I've wondered if the RGB output can be improved on some PCBs by replacing the main power filtering caps and/or filtering the output with ferrite beads... :shock: I have two CPS-1 Strider PCBs and the output from both is different (levels and noise).

Do all of your arcade PCBs have the same interference pattern?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:54 pm 


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I had an interference problem similar to that on a Super Famicom once, that was solved by replacing the PSU, so you might be onto something.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:58 pm 


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I have similar interference on my SNES 2 with RGB mod and original Super Famicom RGB cable. I should try a different PSU as well. The one I'm using now is a modified SEGA Master System one.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:01 pm 


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Okay, I just noticed something XRGB-3 related while playing Comix Zone through the Genny and figured I would ask you guys about it.

I noticed in a lot of shadows and transparencies turn into seperated bars. An example of this can be found in Sonic 2 when you hit those pipes in the Chemical Plant Zone (2nd stage) normally in Composite & RF the pipe is see-through but when the XRGB-3 is connected there are vertical lines getting broke-up. I've checked pretty much every setting there is on the XRGB-3 menus yet nothing seems to remedy this problem.

Another thing, I realized this was sort of covered before in pages prior. But I was interested in the CSYNC leads for some of my consoles, mainly the Genesis. I forget the page I found it on but from what I remember. A Composite Sync RGB cable is possible for the Genesis, the system itself does not require a hardware mod for it to output in CSYNC. Can anyone direct me to someone that sells these? Also, I heard there was a CSYNC device that demonstrates the same properties as CSYNC cable, it's called the XSYNC1. Would I be better off getting that item instead of CSYNC cables, is it even out yet? I remember seeing it on Micomsoft's website but wasn't sure if it was available for order. The goal here is clearing up jailbars on my Sega Genesis & future NeoGeo AES (should I run into those machines with the latter day serial number), I'm aware CSYNC is key.

Also, I would like to eventually add filters around my retro stuff. Give them an XBLA/PSN feel. By filters I mean something that creates smoothness for the graphics on old systems. I'm told the DVDOEdge does this in Component, but purchasing a converter at that price point isn't within my plans. I just want to find a way to smoothen the graphics sometimes is all. Even though I normally prefer them pixelated I'd like to have that option available. I tried the DOT MAN setting or whatever it's called on the XRGB-3 but I think I can do better.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:08 pm 


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The Sega Genesis requires a hardware mod to output correct pure sync, I'm not sure on the details of the best mod for removing jailbars etc at the moment? SGGG2 did you work out something?

I updated that thread about the pure sync leads, there's a seller in the US selling them for SNES and Saturn now on E-bay

Quote:
Also, I would like to eventually add filters around my retro stuff. Give them an XBLA/PSN feel.


You want to make them look emulated? Use an emulator then :roll: The DVDO Edge just makes 240p look all smudgy, hence why people use the XRGB3 along side it.

XSYNC1 and other sync splitters attempt to strip out the composite video and leave just sync, why bother if you can get a pure sync cable anyway? You'll need to mod your Genesis to get rid of the Jailbars so might as well sort pure sync out then.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:15 pm 


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Quote:
The Sega Genesis requires a hardware mod to output correct pure sync

The Genesis and MD do NOT require a hardware mod to the system to output correct pure sync, but they require a little mod to the RGB cable. You have to add a capacitor to the sync line to meet the required specs for the Sony RGB encoder used in the Mega Drive.

Quote:
I'm not sure on the details of the best mod for removing jailbars etc at the moment? SGGG2 did you work out something?

using raw sync is a good step in the right direction. With LPF switched on on the XRGB, this should be fine for many users. To kill the remaining jailbars you have to lift a pin of the graphics chip on the PCB. Details can be found here: http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... 94&page=11


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:17 pm 


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Quote:
Also, I would like to eventually add filters around my retro stuff

could we have this user banned ? Anyone ? Mods ? NOW ?

Quote:
I'm told the DVDOEdge does this in Component, but purchasing a converter at that price point isn't within my plans.

you need a processor with diagonal enhancement. You could use an Edge with an older firmware, or some other (older) DVDO Processor.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:18 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
The Sega Genesis requires a hardware mod to output correct pure sync, I'm not sure on the details of the best mod for removing jailbars etc at the moment? SGGG2 did you work out something?


I simply followed Konsolkongen's lead. :wink: Check out the thread linked in my post further up, it not perfect but it looks like that's as good as it's going to get. Enabling the low pass filter on the XRGB and noise reduction on the Optoma gets rid of what's left completely (scaler chain is XRGB > Gefen > Optoma) I couldn't get the mmmonkey mod to work -- not sure why, it's very straightforward. I'd just recommend getting a Sync Strike.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:34 pm 


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Ah right, well, the MMonkey mod is what I had done to mine and that seemed to fix jailbars for me, guess I got lucky, not sure why it won't work for you. Is there any chance that lifting this graphics chip pin would fix other problems with the Gennys output? (on my setup it has those dreaded white streak lines if I frame lock the output on the Edge, and it also lags at 25ms).
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