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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:54 pm 



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 13
Thanks BuckoA51 but no luck. :(

If I change the options stops flashing but can not get clear image or video input SCART RGB.

Do you know any other possibility?

I've seen your page, if I buy a DVDO (conect XRGB-3 to DVDO Edge) solves anything?

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:58 pm 



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I forgot, BuckoA51:

Where did you buy the DVDO? (I live in Spain)

Regards.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:28 pm 


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Got my DVDO Edge from AVToad here in the UK, yes using the Edge and the XRGB3 in tandem solves most problems, but it's an expensive solution. You also need to find composite sync RGB cables for most consoles for best results.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:44 pm 


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Hi all,

I've been helping a friend setup his new XRGB-3 and all is good with his LCD TV.

He's got a taste for it and is now looking to get a new LCD monitor too. Looking at the wiki it looks like TVs generally have compatibility issues at high resolutions but the two monitors listed don't. Is it generally the case that the XRGB drives monitors at 1080p without issue?

I've recommended he gets the NEC EA232WMi but he's also looking at the ViewSonic VX2739wm and BenQ XL2410T.

Has anybody run the XRGB with any of these monitors? Will they more than likely accept its high resolution signals?

Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:49 pm 


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The Viewsonic and the BenQ are TN panels. Not recommended if the intends to use the display in tate.

I would first ask if he really wants to use the XRGB in B0 (high resolution mode). Most people prefer B1 (480p with scanlines).

In generel monitors are less problematic (than TVs) when it comes to the XRGB's 1080p output, but you cannot be sure without trying.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:09 pm 


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Wow. Thanks for the quick response :)

I agree about the monitors BTW - that's my recommendation.

I'm not sure what mode he'll be using. Like I say it's a new unit so there will be lots of experimenting to find the preferred modes - I'm just trying to help find a monitor that provides the most options.

However, it's mostly going to be used for PC Engine, SNES, Saturn, PS1 etc so from what I gather B1 may well be the best option.

Out of interest though, is there generally a problem with input lag when the monitor has to scale the input to its native resolution?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:18 pm 


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Quote:
Out of interest though, is there generally a problem with input lag when the monitor has to scale the input to its native resolution?

no, don't worry. But scaling in the XRGB (= using B0 mode) adds 2 frames of lag.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:28 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Out of interest though, is there generally a problem with input lag when the monitor has to scale the input to its native resolution?

no, don't worry. But scaling in the XRGB (= using B0 mode) adds 2 frames of lag.


Thanks for the help. Very useful


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:21 pm 



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Hi there. I just got a Core GrafX Console (= PC-Engine) and it is not yet RGB modded. As i am no tech and i want it to be modded in a way it works perfectly with the XRGB-3 i am asking here, since so many experts are here, maybe someone is willing to mod it for me!? That would be great. It needs RGB mod (+ RGB amp /+ sync chip !?) and a SCART Cable too. The mod should be optimized to work with the XRGB-3. Okay, would be great if someone reply. Thx. (I am in Germany, but i would send within Europe, np)


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:13 pm 


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Moosmann's first choice in Germany. I'll send you a PM with his email adress.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:46 pm 


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Alright guys,

I got really lucky and some how located an FZ-10 RGB Output 3DO. It's the Japanese version which benefits NTSC displays.

Gave it a full test run using my XRGB-3, the SCART 3DO performs magnificantly exceeding initial expectations. Thankfully there are no vertical interference lines which outdoes certain other consoles true RGB out there for instance later AES models along with the Mega Drive/Genesis (jailbars). The filtering is indeed superb while intense color depth gives it that smooth Arcade feel. Should have got this done a long time ago. It's important to note that you'll need the XRGB on very specific settings in order to make your 3DO look and play above S-Video standards. I did some tinkering, here is what I found.

==============================
==============================

Low Pass Filter: ON

NTSC AFC: Manual

AFC Level: 3-5

NTSC DC MAN: 3639

RGB-21 Term. 220 ohms (Recommended)

==============================
==============================

I recommend adding this to XRGB-3 wiki to go along with the other systems Recommended Settings. Panasonic's console juggernaut fits in line with regular Nintendo and PC Engine Duo since all three require hardware mods and are now tested.

The latter ohms is suggested for the purpose of playing 2D games like Samurai Spirits and Bishoujo Senshi. I noticed any and all artifacts are greatly reduced at this junction. If default settings are the usual you'll notice the screen is curved at the top. Setting AFC for the above fixes that problem, I noticed when I first powered on Super SF2 Turbo the screen kept going in and out. Additionally, I've found Adjusting AFC levels between three and five ends the blackouts. I'd also make sure dot-by-dot functionality is default for safe measure. I noticed when playing with that I saw the picture would go MIA. Finally Low Pass Filter, very important to 3DO Arcade PCB mod. I believe the factory setting is set to "off". See to it it's turned "on" as to undermine distorted looking extreme vertical scanlines and from there go for broke! Be prepared to enjoy that rich 32-bit RGB experience.

I'm pleased to report 3DO has a max resolution of 640x480 making it a shoe-in VGA candidate. If only it were released later (with lesser mistakes most importantly) it could have pulled a Dreamcast making VGA out the norm instead of having to be stuck with a lower colored S-Video. I leave this mini-guide here so that others will be well-prepared should such issues occur. Granted I did this through guess work but I think it's faster to be shown which settings to target.

Almost forgot, if your monitor/TV supports screen adjust or the XRGB-3 is in full-processing mode. Hoist Output Position slightly up. There's a faint green line that just hangs a top from the screen. I believe it's part of the video but it looks weird above the Northern space bar and picture. Simple output repositioning ought to clear that right up.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:19 pm 


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Moosmann's first choice in Germany. I'll send you a PM with his email adress.


He's busy with exams until July though!

Quote:
Finally Low Pass Filter, very important to 3DO Arcade PCB mod.


LPF should generally be on whenever you use B1
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:37 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
LPF should generally be on whenever you use B1


True, which reminds me I have yet to test it in B0 mode. Guess I'll give it a shot. I wonder if those ugly bars will appear again using this setting.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:26 pm 



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Hi, I just bought official sega saturn Japanese 21-pin rgb cables for my saturn, to hook up to my XRGB-3. The problem is I need an extension cable for my saturn rgb cables to reach the XRGB-3. I can't find Japanese 21-pin female to Japanese 21-pin male extension cables anywhere, all can find are euro scart and euro 21 pin extension cables. If anyone has any info where I could buy the cables im looking for or if they even exist would be very helpful, or if its safe to plug in the euro scart extension cable into my XRGB-3.



Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:46 am 


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Just as I suspected, B0 mode may function but adjusted settings are a must. Essentially all of the tweaks said in line-doubling mode to make the XRGB(3) compatible with 3DO, can to be applied to B0 state. Especially LPF & AFC particulars.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:10 pm 


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More cable sound blues.

So, I got another cable for my NTSC SNES. Its a SCART cable running into my SCART->RGB converter/extension cable, with slightly thicker housing/shielding, and no static or sound issues! But, mysteriously, when playing certain games, the screen will go black and drop out. In fact, I'll get a no signal message from my TV. Sometimes when I go back to a different screen in the game, it returns, but I don't know what's triggering it (except that its perfectly regular in each game). I've read about related problems on this forum and elsewhere, but still am not sure. Will changing the AFC level on the XRGB3 help with this desynch/blackout problem?

The SCART cable I'm using now also mysteriously is missing several pins. I guess they aren't used by the SNES?

Otherwise, its time to hunt for yet another rgb/scart cable that won't blackout and has proper shielding...
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:22 pm 


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First thing I'd try is using composite sync on your SCART cable rather than composite video for sync, if you are not already.

I should add that...

Quote:
The SCART cable I'm using now also mysteriously is missing several pins. I guess they aren't used by the SNES?


As far as I know in the XRGB3's case the only pins that need to be connected are Red, Green, Blue and Sync. You might also want Audio L and R too of course. The XRGB3 seems to totally ignore the other pins. On a standard Euro SCART cable there would normally be two more to signal to the TV that RGB was present and for selecting aspect ratio. That only makes 8 out of the 20 so it's quite possible that some would not be present.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:50 pm 


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So I got the XRGB-3 connected to DC using a VGA > DVI-A adapter (PC IN). I managed to get a picture however the Dreamcast is way too bright, now objects look too rigid butchered by jagged edges. I never got this when DC was connected through the blue RGB hub. Only wavy interference, which was faint but still noticeable hence why I'm trying the PC passthrough method. Are there any settings I can tweak that may get the picture to look normal, thanks.

Btw, I couldn't just connect it and press PC/AV on the XRGB remote. Had to get a game running through GAME IN first before I hit the switch. Could that have anything to do with it? At the moment I can't adjust any settings at all.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 12:56 pm 


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Rock Man wrote:
Btw, I couldn't just connect it and press PC/AV on the XRGB remote. Had to get a game running through GAME IN first before I hit the switch. Could that have anything to do with it? At the moment I can't adjust any settings at all.


I think that's a bug. You are using B1 mode right? If I remember correctly you can switch to PC-mode no problem when using B0 mode. It's very annoying :(

Regarding your brightness problem, I'm pretty sure you can't change any settings to alter the PC input on the XRGB-3 :/

EDIT: Lower the brightness on your TV so you get a nice image from the Dreamcast > XRGB-3 PC-in. Then raise the brightness in the XRGB-3 menu for all inputs. I keep the brightness at 50 for GAME-IN on my XRGB-3.

Hope that helps :)


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:25 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
Rock Man wrote:
Btw, I couldn't just connect it and press PC/AV on the XRGB remote. Had to get a game running through GAME IN first before I hit the switch. Could that have anything to do with it? At the moment I can't adjust any settings at all.


I think that's a bug. You are using B1 mode right? If I remember correctly you can switch to PC-mode no problem when using B0 mode. It's very annoying :(

Regarding your brightness problem, I'm pretty sure you can't change any settings to alter the PC input on the XRGB-3 :/

EDIT: Lower the brightness on your TV so you get a nice image from the Dreamcast > XRGB-3 PC-in. Then raise the brightness in the XRGB-3 menu for all inputs. I keep the brightness at 50 for GAME-IN on my XRGB-3.

Hope that helps :)


Thanks will try.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:30 pm 


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PC IN does nothing to the picture anyway (except add jail-bars in my instance), better off bypassing it altogether if possible.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:49 pm 


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Running the Dreamcast through the PC-In also makes the Dreamcast image slightly blurry in places here. Very strange :(


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:14 pm 


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That does it. I'm buying a switcher that holds Dreamcast, my old DVD Player, and XRGB-3. Screw XRGBDVI-A passthroughs! Until Micomsoft releases a Firmware to clear video interference I'm done with that part.

But what about 15khz sources? I thought about connecting a PC Engine/Saturn RGB cable on the XRGB. Would that create video interference too? I figured the reason it did that was due to a higher kilohertz level however if that's not the case. I'm going to need another two ports on my future switcher which houses both of those connections.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:06 pm 


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That does it. I'm buying a switcher that holds Dreamcast, my old DVD Player, and XRGB-3


You have a VGA DVD player?!

Quote:
But what about 15khz sources?


:?: Why do you want to route 15khz games consoles around the XRGB3 exactly? Isn't that what you bought it for? :?:
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:20 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
:?: Why do you want to route 15khz games consoles around the XRGB3 exactly? Isn't that what you bought it for? :?:


I won't need to route them "around" the XRGB if it gives me a clear signal at 15khz, otherwise I'll be needing additional VGA ports. I'm not asking this for the sake of all my 15khz platforms. My SCART switcher is running out of room so I just need some place else to store extra inputs when I max out my SCART matrix. Although I could just go get another matrix for SCART inputs. Either idea should work.

BuckoA51 wrote:
You have a VGA DVD player?!


You say it like they don't exist, lol. It's also a karaoke player (came with two mics) I bought it from a shop in Chinatown. Now if only it made toast.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:58 pm 


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:?: You are still utterly confusing me, you want a VGA switch so you can switch between your 3 VGA sources i.e XRGB3, Dreamcast and DVD, where does PC Engine and Saturn come into that equation, they don't even support 31khz VGA output, hence the need for the XRGB3.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:25 pm 


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Screw XRGBDVI-A passthroughs! Until Micomsoft releases a Firmware to clear video interference I'm done with that part.

I had different VGA sources running through the XRGB-3 like this. A XBox1 with a X2VGA, a DVDO linedoubler and a Dreamcast and I had no interference, no RGB level boost (overly bright picture) and no degradation whatsoever. It's a been a while though. If I can manage to squeeze another cable into my setup I can give this another try with the DC this weekend - no promises though.

Quote:
I'm buying a switcher that holds Dreamcast, my old DVD Player, and XRGB-3

if you want to go this route, I'd recommend a Extron RGB 203xi. Has got 3 inputs, sync cleanup, horizontal and vertical picture shift (the later one's nice to eliminate the flickering line on earlier MD/Genesis titles) and can sometimes be found quite cheap on ebay.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:05 am 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
:?: You are still utterly confusing me, you want a VGA switch so you can switch between your 3 VGA sources i.e XRGB3, Dreamcast and DVD, where does PC Engine and Saturn come into that equation, they don't even support 31khz VGA output, hence the need for the XRGB3.


I'll try and explain this as best as I can.

It's true I want a VGA selector for three of the above machines, it's also true that I'm thinking of incorporating two more platforms, i.e. the Saturn and PC Engine (not yet acquired) therefore I would be buying a switcher that houses up to 5 inputs. The problem in question isn't so much getting them to run at 31 khz. The issue is my SCART switchers are short 1 input, which means if I get the PC Engine. I won't be able to connect it as SCART along with all the other consoles because there are no more SCART ports available. The goal in this instance, isn't to get them to run at 31 khz. It's finding a viable input where I can place all my connections simultaneously, which relieves me of any unnecessary cable swapping.

I was gonna use at least one of those 15 khz systems the Saturn or PC Engine on the RGB IN or PC IN ports on the back assuming they ran 15 khz at adequate quality. But because the blue RGB port produces interference while PC IN port is just too damn bright. I was just gonna chalk it and grab a VGA switch matrix that takes my DVD player which outputs YUV, DC, XRGB-3, while the other few ports are reserved for the 15 khz Saturn and PC Engine because you can use RGB cables on them. Make sense? Sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

In mention of a case in another thread I did initially desire Saturn to output a 31 Khertz. Unfortunately this isn't so, but what I'm thinking right now is placing all my consoles comfortably while still outputting a non-hindered signal. So connecting through regular VGA a lla switcher is the way to go.

Fudoh wrote:
Screw XRGBDVI-A passthroughs! Until Micomsoft releases a Firmware to clear video interference I'm done with that part.

Quote:
I had different VGA sources running through the XRGB-3 like this. A XBox1 with a X2VGA, a DVDO linedoubler and a Dreamcast and I had no interference, no RGB level boost (overly bright picture) and no degradation whatsoever. It's a been a while though. If I can manage to squeeze another cable into my setup I can give this another try with the DC this weekend - no promises though.


No problem man, I'd be grateful to learn the results!

Fudoh wrote:
I'm buying a switcher that holds Dreamcast, my old DVD Player, and XRGB-3

Quote:
if you want to go this route, I'd recommend a Extron RGB 203xi. Has got 3 inputs, sync cleanup, horizontal and vertical picture shift (the later one's nice to eliminate the flickering line on earlier MD/Genesis titles) and can sometimes be found quite cheap on ebay.


My Genny 32X Sega CD combo is a pain in the ass when it comes to flickering (oddly enough is the only SCART system that does that) so this Extron technology is just what I need! I'll also get another SCART lead just to be on the safe side, make sure it takes comp sync for retaining video and unified color properties. I have some questions about this Extron thing: 1.) Can Extron retain all of the quality. 2.) Do they sell them with 5 inputs? (If not will invest in another SCART matrix) 3.) Does it add milli-second lag on top of HD lag? 4.) Will it work if I do this | TV > SLG3000 (soon to be ordered) > Extron RGB 203xi > All VGA compatible equipment (XRGB-3/DC...etc.) |
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:12 am 


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But because the blue RGB port produces interference while PC IN port is just too damn bright.

but that's for 31khz source only. You can connect your Saturn to the blue DSub15 input on the back without any hassles and it will look just as stunning as on the front input. PC Engine must go the front Game-In since you probably will need the Input termination setting for the PCE and that's available on the front RGB input only.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:19 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
But because the blue RGB port produces interference while PC IN port is just too damn bright.

but that's for 31khz source only. You can connect your Saturn to the blue DSub15 input on the back without any hassles and it will look just as stunning as on the front input. PC Engine must go the front Game-In since you probably will need the Input termination setting for the PCE and that's available on the front RGB input only.



Whoa! Didn't know that before I though they both took all VGA sources. New plan connect only the Saturn to VGA Input on the back. PC Engine can go where the Saturn currently is on my Entertainment Set-Up.

What about the Extron?
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