XRGB-3

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:09 am

can you tell me if its possible to;
- upscale super nes to 720p with scanline (any lag?)

No, Scanline Emulation is only available in B1 mode and that limits the XRGB-3 to VGA and 480p output. No lag in this mode.

- upscale wii/ps2 to 720p or more (any lag?)

The XRGB-3 has no 16:9 modes, only 4:3 (1024x768 etc) and 16:19 (1440x900... 1920x1200), but let's assume XGA (1024x768). You can do that in B1 mode (DVI/HDMI and VGA) and it has a lag of 2 frames (35ms)

also, do i need to buy a yuv to d-terminal adapter or its include in packaging ? (i want to connect my yuv switch directly)

one is included.

if only they could release an english firmware :p

I've emailed them, let's see... On the other hand after operating the 3 for a few hours you find your way around in the japanese menus pretty well.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:56 am

I guess I've asked this before, but never saw the answer:

Which of these units will work with a X68000?

Anything to free me from using one of those monitors.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:51 pm

To my knowledge the X68k has 15khz RGB with seperated syncs. So *basically* you use any of the XRGB units. As a first try you would just drill together the two Sync lines and route them to the C-Sync input pin of the Scart socket on the XRGB.

If this doesn't work you'll need a sync processing chip will will combine the two sync lines. This can be made within a cable (small), so you should be good to go.

Lawrence at http://nfggames.com/forum2/ would be the man to ask though.

akumajo · Post by **akumajo** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:24 pm

maybe we should start a wiki or something?
i dont have received my xrgb3 yet, so i cant do much...

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:54 pm

OK, today Fantasy Zone II arrived and I used it to deliver a shoot out between the iScan VP50pro, the XRGB-3 and the Burosch Con-1.

It can be found here by scrolling down to the middle (can't miss it, it's very colorful).

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

Post by **Icarus** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:23 am

Well, after much faffing around with my PC (read: installing 2x 750GB SATA into RAID0, and an extra 2GB DDR2 RAM), I've finally managed to get my VP30 to co-operate with my Intensity Pro. Premiere Pro CS3 inexplicably stops recording after 9 minutes, but that's probably fixed with program updates (since I'm on 3.0.0 and they're up to 3.2.0 now).

In short, I can play on my big screen, and capture, yay.

Every Extend Extra capture test, H.264 and MP3 encoded, cropped and resized from 720p. A bit of stutter here and there, probably caused by duplicate frames or something (might change framerate on the VP30 to 60fps Lock instead of 59.94 Unlock). Probably spend a bit of time testing it with the supergun later.

Thanks again Fudoh, for indirectly recommending the VP30.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:16 am

Wow, I wish I had a VP30 instead of whatever piece of garbage DAC converter I have (well, it's not garbage, but I've only ever used it once and it doesn't do what I want it to, namely play + capture). Maybe I'll be able to trade.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:40 am

might change framerate on the VP30 to 60fps Lock instead of 59.94 Unlock

for anything running near 60Hz "locked" is correct. The locked framerate modes on the DVDO machines mean that the outgoing framerate will be 100% like the incoming one. Don't be fooled by the word "60hz". Since at least the home systems are running at correct 59,94Hz, use the lock for them. With 59,94Hz unlocked you can get near judder-free output from non-60Hz sources, but it's not perfect for already ideal 59,94Hz sources.

PS: What kind of splitter do you use behind the VP30 ?

Post by **Icarus** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:42 pm

Fudoh wrote:framerate info

Ahh right, thanks for the information. I figured it was something to do with the framerate - I'll give it a go with 60 Lock later tonight and see what happens.

Fudoh wrote:PS: What kind of splitter do you use behind the VP30 ?

Not using any splitters at the moment (trying not to) - everything is connected straight into the VP30 via either component or s-video/composite, depending on system. The VP30 then outputs via HDMI to the Intensity Pro. The Intensity Pro outputs via HDMI to my monitor, so I can record as I play. With the audio, everything is connected via analog stereo RCA to the Intensity, I haven't tried HDMI audio yet.

I have a second monitor set up via the DVI port on my capture card, so I can monitor the recording on a second screen.

There is one issue with the Dreamcast in composite and the VP30 in that the display flickers black and white - no colour. I can probably get away with plugging it directly into the Intensity Pro, though, and having the capture card do the upscaling (via the "SD to 1080i" setting).

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:51 pm

I have a second monitor set up via the DVI port on my capture card, so I can monitor the recording on a second screen.

ah, right, forgot that the Intensity has a monitor output. One question though for you: I have once looked into the Intensity to do a scanline overlay and as far as I know there's software ("on air" ?) included with the Intensity which allows you to do all kinds of overlay stuff. Have you ever tried it ? As far as I know it's only overlayed to the capture stream and not the the HDMI output of the card - am I right ?

There is one issue with the Dreamcast in composite

god, why

? Please use RGB or even better VGA input from the Dreamcast into the VP30.

Post by **Icarus** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 3:01 pm

Fudoh wrote:ah, right, forgot that the Intensity has a monitor output. One question though for you: I have once looked into the Intensity to do a scanline overlay and as far as I know there's software ("on air" ?) included with the Intensity which allows you to do all kinds of overlay stuff. Have you ever tried it ? As far as I know it's only overlayed to the capture stream and not the the HDMI output of the card - am I right ?

Not entirely sure, but both Media Express (which is a fairly basic capture and playback utility) and On Air 2.0 (which is Mac only, and allows live mixing between two Intensity cards) work with the HDMI output of the card.

And I haven't tried On Air 2.0, just Media Express. There are other utilities such as Blackmagic HDLink which I haven't tried yet, which might do what you're looking for.

Fudoh wrote:
There is one issue with the Dreamcast in composite
god, why ? Please use RGB or even better VGA input from the Dreamcast into the VP30.

Haha, yeah, I haven't got the required cables for any other output besides composite yet. Looking for them right now. ^_-

akumajo · Post by **akumajo** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:28 pm

hello, i received my xrgb3

i started to try things

i'm in b1 mode (d in 1)and i try to enable scanline but i cant see anything (i'm using a psp an its say 525p on screen)

anyone?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 6:30 pm

Does B1 even support 480(525)p input ? I thought not.

Also Scanline emulation will only work with 15khz material (PSP is 31khz) and will also give good results with 240p material (PSP is 480p).

And I think you need to use the D in 2 to use the underscan compensation to make the PSP's games fullscreen (and I further think that this only works in B0 mode).

akumajo · Post by **akumajo** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:07 pm

i see, i will check that

now i'm testing snes + svideo cable and i still cant see scanline

what is supposed to be the scanline option in the menu? maybe i must use the GAME IN scart connector?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:18 pm

Small mistake from my side: 480p in works in B1 mode as well, just tried.

The scanline option works for all inputs, but basically just for 240p input. On 480i you get scanlines as well, but these 480i are tiny, just like on a CRT.

On 480p input the scanline option has no effect.

akumajo · Post by **akumajo** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:50 pm

tested a snes with crappy composite cable, still nothing...

ok, i will try with a CRT (i'm using an hdtv currently with VGA input)

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:29 pm

It won't make a difference. If no scanlines show up (set the scanline strenght to about 150-170), then you're in B0 mode.

Did you upgrade the FW? On a fresh XRGB-3 no B1 mode firmware is installed and on older B1 firmwares the scanline option did not work.

akumajo · Post by **akumajo** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 4:30 am

yes i'm using http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb3_update_setup_v2_05.exe

i can see B0,B1,B2,B3
in the same menu, there are VL_H and VL_V (both set to 255) options

thats scanline?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:33 am

The v2.05 update does not include a B1 mode. You have to upgrade BOTH firmware banks.

On the menu there's always B0 to B3, but they are partly empty.

Set to B1, RESTART the XRGB and see what resolution it gives. If it's 1024... you're in B0, if it's 640 you're in B1.

You don't need VL_H, and set VL_V to 150 to 175 (that's horizontal scanlines)

akumajo · Post by **akumajo** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:14 pm

eheh, now i'm confused

i set to B1 mode, i reboot, but always 1024*768 as u said

i have this "installed":
cpu ver: 2.05
fpga1 ver 08 04 25
fpga2 ver
fpga3 ver
fpga4 ver
cmd ver 2.05
ost ver 2.02
pll ver 1.00
pcb ver 1.4

what do u mean? -> you have to upgrade BOTH firmware banks.

edit: do you mean that i also need to flash with http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb3_update ... _v1_00.exe

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:19 pm

Well, it means that you have to download this file as well:

http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/xrgb3_update ... _v1_00.exe

and do a seperate update for your FPGA Bank 2 (B1).

Currently you're in B0 mode and you'll stay there no matter which (empty) bank you choose.

akumajo · Post by **akumajo** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:39 pm

eheh ok, i flashed with 1.0 firmware
now for fpga 2 i can see: 06 10 19

going to test super nes now

thx for u support fudoh

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:46 pm

I hope it works this way around. The B1 update is rather old, whereas only the B0 update from this spring made the scanline options available for B1 more (though it was a B0 update)..

akumajo · Post by **akumajo** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:12 pm

now its working full screen on my hdtv (640x480) and scanline mode 175.

first impression is very good, it looks like my old tv

ps1 games (with a ps2) looks very good too
i noticed that i cant have full screen with psp in b1 mode (i wanted to test castlevania psp full screen + scanline on my hdtv) any luck fudoh ?

quick video if anyone is curious to see how it looks (playing and capturing is not easy :p)

video:http://dl.free.fr/qb5TVZ7v3

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:25 pm

As said before I think the "underscan compensation" for PSP Games only works in B0 mode, but even it would work in B1 mode, you can't get scanlines since the PSP delivers 31khz YUV only.

I guess the description "scanline emulation" is not 100% correct, the XRGB2/3 is more of a CRT-look simulator. You'll get exactly what you would get on a CRT. Heavy scanlines on 240p material, slight scanlines on 480i material and no scanlines on 480p material.

You could try one thing for me: when I turn off my XRGB-3 and turn it on again (and I always unplug the power in between), it forgets the scanlines. The setting is still set to 175 for example, but I need to change it +/- one point to activate the scanlines again........ Same on your unit ?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:28 pm

PS: There are of course ways to achieve a scanline emulation with PSP games, but it would only be worth it if you play PSP a lot and it's not definitely not an easy setup.

akumajo · Post by **akumajo** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:59 pm

You could try one thing for me: when I turn off my XRGB-3 and turn it on again (and I always unplug the power in between), it forgets the scanlines. The setting is still set to 175 for example, but I need to change it +/- one point to activate the scanlines again........ Same on your unit ?

no problem here, scanline was enabled when i unplugged and plugged power (i'm actually using svideo for snes, i'm waiting for a scart converter)

about psp u are right, i will have to find another solution

also, another question, will i have problem if i use my euro scart gamecube cable (to test my snes with scart ...) ?

edit:
about psp output signal, ok yuv is a problem so i searched and found an hack that let you play with the other cable (av cable) in 480i, maybe the signal will change ?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:13 am

also, another question, will i have problem if i use my euro scart gamecube cable

yes, it would be an instant kill for your XRGB's scart input. don't try.

akumajo · Post by **akumajo** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:20 pm

hey guys, i'm compiling information for xrgb3

i'm interested to know if you have any tips to improve quality or fix problems with consoles connected to xrgb

myself i have problems when using a Wii, the picture isnt as good as if i directly connect to my hdtv, any idea?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 6:30 pm

The problem's most likely the transcoder (YUV to RGB) inside the XRGB3. It's really not good. If you ready my comparison and have a look at the screens you can see that 480p input into the XRGB3 is not a good idea.

Eventually it's simply not what it's been created for. 240p and 480i input is great, but for 480p input a good transcoder is better (and many TVs aren't bad in 480p directly component either).