XRGB-3

[mimylovesjapan]

Thank you for your response !

I posted one week ago, then during this time I read many things on internet, and I choose XRGB-2....

Then, sure, the problem, now, is, how to display good quality 480p on my screen...

And also, I said V sync, but what I wanted to say, is that, according to what I read on other boards, with XRGB there is some trouble with syncronize lines...
Then say, addin a Extron RGB should be the best way.

But as I am in Japan, and all my material is japanese, (Extron is american device ?) I don't know if it is the best choice...

Plus, yes, it would be great to have good render in 1080p with and without scan lines.
My sony has HDMI and D-Terminal 1080p 46 inch
My Panasonic HDMI VGA D-Terminal and RGB 720p 32inch
My PC screen VGA 1024x768 19 inch

[Fudoh]

You need a transcoder. To convert from RGBHV to component (D-Terminal).

VGA to HDMI is possible as well, but transcoding will give you better quality on the Sony.

[mimylovesjapan]

What do you mean by a transcoder ?
Is that a special adapter ? Do you have any brand to advice me ?
Extron 203rxi has VGA in and Component out, can it do this job ? Any other brand in japan could do the same job ?

the objective is :
Super famicom -> XRGB2 -> Extron 203 (transcoder ?) -> TV ?

[Xyga]

And also, I said V sync, but what I wanted to say, is that, according to what I read on other boards, with XRGB there is some trouble with syncronize lines...

Not with the XRGB2 and XRGB3 as far as I know, I've owned both for years and tried them with many different game hardwares and displays; I've never encountered any serious sync issues that would justify the purchase of an Extron interface.
BUT...it's true some displays are very picky, IIRC years ago Fudoh mentioned a Sony TV that wouldn't take the XRGB3's 480p input without external help (was it?)

Talking about settings;
- On the XRGB2 you can leave V-Sync on 'Auto'.
- On the XRGB3 you can turn V-Sync 'On' or 'Off'.
- On both the DTC and AFC settings will be more useful to you for stabilizing the picture.
- On the XRGB2 the H_POS (horizontal position) also affects image stability, if you have colors issues or if the picture is 'jumping' and disappearing; try to move the cursor left or right a bit.

NOTE: the XRGB2 has a hidden menu called 'Super Mode', you can access it by inputing the following code using the front panel buttons:

Unplug the unit for 10 seconds, plug the AC adaptor back in, press SELECT+MENU once then in order ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → SELECT MENU

(took me several tries)
This hidden menu has extended settings, it can be useful for instance when the basic AFC cursor is not enough to get a perfectly straight picture.
You can also adjust the D/A & A/D levels:
- a bit more D/A will increase the output luminosity (but too much will make it look overbright and blinding)
- a bit more A/D, only +/- 1 step though, will make the image look brighter or 'black-er' (but you can achieve the same using the 'BRIGHT' and 'BLACK' settings too)
Don't touch the settings you don't need, if you mess up anyway you can reset the XRGB2 and start over.
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-2

[BuckoA51]

My Sony TV (KDL-40Z4500) won't accept XRGB3 via VGA at all.

You're VERY lucky if you've never had sync issues with the XRGB3, soon as you go into manual AFC compatibility is broken with every HDTV I've ever tried. Sega Master System and PC Engine are very difficult to get working with a stable, non warped image.

[Xyga]

The oldest display I've experienced my scalers on with a sure year of release were a 2007 monitor, then the oldest TV a 2010 LG HDTV.
Every other display I've used the XRGB series on since then has been either older (w/ no date that I've checked) or newer than those, I'm talking about maybe 10 different monitors or more, don't remember, then about as many TV's but none older than 2010.
All the syncing problems I've had always originated from either bad connectivity/signal or power, once 'fixed' no display has ever rejected anything processed by the XRGB's I own, not even pcb's (although I don't have very troublesome ones) in the case of the X2.
And so far no trouble I couldn't get over with the DISPL, although I still have a lot of testing to do.

EDIT: about the AFC: not trouble ever w/ the X3 if left on 'Auto', perfectly stable in every case save the Saturns. Only ok w/ consoles though but we all know that.
Used to have slight distorsions w/ the X2, but fixable via the Super Mode since it came to light (again excluding the Sat).

As for the MD's, never had any problems with the two MD1's I've owned (french w/ the bulky RVB cable), only with the two french MD2's I have now because of their shitty original scart cable(s), but easy to fix anyway: all perfectly clear and stable save for the 'jailbars' issue I have yet to work on.
Only the PAL french Saturns are still giving me trouble (gotta try luma as Fudoh recommended) I've read the NTSC ones are okay.
Regarding the PCE/CD, well yeah it's a very well known fact that it depends a lot on the RGB mod.

EDIT: my Master System is a Power Base Converter, no issues if that helps.

Sorry Bucko51 I seem to never experience the same things you do lol. ^^"
Slight properties and context variations can produce very different results with all those devices, unfortunately.

[BuckoA51]

Oh these issues are well documented going back in this thread, as I say, you're lucky, particularly with the later model HDTV. Manual AFC also breaks DVDO Edge compatibility (and also with the Gefen scaler). My SMS was the power base converter too, makes no difference (MD is not affected when not using it).

PCE - Tried several different ones with different mods, all have the screen warping and require manual AFC that I've ever found.

I did eventually manage to fix the manual AFC incompatibility with an Extron interface but even then it had to be a specific one configured in a specific way (I did document it on my website).

[mimylovesjapan]

Thank you, you two, for your advices !
I will try the super mode also !

for the transcoder that Fudoh mentionned, someone could tell me what exactly is that ?

[juji82]

since you are living in japan, you can look out for a micomsoft xselect-d4

[mimylovesjapan]

Too high for me !!! 20.000 yens...
Nothing doing the same job for around 5000 yens ?
I have already a XRGB2, then, it is maybe not worth do combine XRGB 2 and XSelect ?

I found an Extron 203 Rxi VTG for 5000 yens. Is it worth to add it in chain with the XRGB2 ? Even if one is jp and the other US ?

[Fudoh]

The Extron will only "re-time" your output VGA signal. If you don't have any problems with your VGA connection, you don't need one. It will not transcode to component and will not help you connect your XRGB-2 to your Sony TV.

Audio Authority transcoders are available on ebay.com for about $100 + shipping.

[mimylovesjapan]

thank you fudoh !
I searched for Audio Authority... Many models. Do you have a reference/model in mind ?

[Fudoh]

9A60A

[mimylovesjapan]

OK found it... for 15000 yens. It expensive...
For this price, nothing that can do that + "re-timing" + upscaling ? for exemple...

[Fudoh]

I cannot imagine that the DVDO processors are any cheaper in Japan.

If you get a cheap VGA to HDMI converter (should be around 4,000 yen), you end up with the same quality you would get if your Sony TV still had a physical VGA input. You can try that if you want. Transcoding is better though.

[mimylovesjapan]

What exactly does DVDO ?
What about that :
Audio Authority 1361

[mimylovesjapan]

DVDO is easy to find in auctions even in japan. But many many models... don't know from which one starting...

[Fudoh]

DVDO iScan HD, HD+, VP30, VP50, VP50Pro, DVDO Edge, DVDO iScan Duo are full video processors. They upscale to 1080p HDMI for you.

Audio Authority 1361

that's a scan converter (for down scaling). Something completely different....

[mimylovesjapan]

oh great ! they can rescale ! and VGA to Compnent too ?
I will search this way ! Good with jp TV ?

[Fudoh]

oh great ! they can rescale ! and VGA to Compnent too ?

With a DVDO you would scale directly to HDMI of course. They can do this better than the cheap VGA to HDMI converters, so you don't have to fall back to component.

[mimylovesjapan]

Thank you !
I understood better the system ! And if there is a V-sync problem, I can buy an Extron after !

[Xyga]

But will a DVDO rescale the XRGB's output better than his Sony TV ? (using either a VGA>Component or VGA>HDMI)

I don't know about the older Sony's but we all know the recent W series scaling is better than the DVDO's...

[Fudoh]

The Sony would do better, but the DVDO gives him more flexibility. And it properly resolves the full input resolution contrary to the cheaper converters. And hey, it's not like the DVDO/XRGB combos look bad by any means....

[Xyga]

They don't look bad, right, but for a Sony owner that's a significant expense for barely any difference in output quality.
Whatever DVDO machine in the chain ends up used mainly as a transcoding, resizing and panning addon.

And it's not necessarily more flexible if you take some things in consideration, like when using a DVDO for the first time there are always hurdles, the most annoying being the almost inevitable and difficult firmware update that requires a serial adapter and Windows XP, the fragile power supply and the HDMI handshake problems that go with it, plus other oddities depending on the model.
Other limitations that come to mind are those I've mentioned in another thread regarding the array of signals that can be genlocked (VP30), as well as input lag (EDGE).
At least on my own Sony model using the AA transcoder allows me to avoid all these problems.

Frankly the moment I got the Audio Authority 9A60, the DVDO machines have become useless for the Sony (not for other displays I mean, just the Sony).
Actually even though there are only a couple overscan settings on the Sony to zoom the picture and eliminate borders, there is always one that's either perfect or near-perfect, when the VP's and EDGE as we know only work right at 0% or 10%, which is too much in most cases.
You've mentioned the iScan HD and its better overscanning feature, but also its lack of VGA input, and we know it's upscaling quality is weaker than the other DVDO's.

In my eyes the DVDO processors are ideal for displays lacking competent-enough scaling and other useful properties or features such as the required inputs and proper aspect ratio management.
But - sorry again for the redundancy - for the Sony TV's [in the context of using an XRGB of course] they're a kind of luxury, and IMHO not necessarily an improvement
(that, of course pending to the concerned Sony model's performance. I definitely don't know all)

PS: sorry for the thread derailment. ^^

[Fudoh]

hey don't look bad, right, but for a Sony owner that's a significant expense for barely any difference in output quality.

between DVDO is easy to find in auctions even in japan. and OK found it... for 15000 yens. It expensive... it seems like a valid option to him.

[Xyga]

I don't know, could a VP30 or an EDGE sell for less than 15,000 JPY over there ? I don't browse Japanese auction websites myself...

[Fudoh]

It's up to him. If you look above, I recommend a transcoder first. He was asking for alternatives. Just giving him these.....

[mimylovesjapan]

Thank you again for all your advices.
I can find a DVDO iScan VP50 HD for same price as 9A60A.
According to Xyga 9A60A should be better ?
I give you the exact reference of my screen
KDL-46W920A

[Xyga]

Well it's not the AA 9A60A that is better, it's the Sony.
Because the Sony naturally has its own built-in scaler, and it is very good.
By using a simple transcoder like the AA, you're letting that built-in scaler handle the XRGB.

But the VP50 is a very good deal for that price !
With it you will gain convenient functionalities such as more inputs/outputs, image control, and it should be nice for playing the many 480i games of the PS2 too.

It is hard to get the idea without seeing it in reality, with the AA you get something more raw/pure and simple, with the DVDO you get something more sophisticated.
Yes, at that point it is up to you. ^^

[mimylovesjapan]

OK ! I will think about it ! Thank you !
Does a VGA - HDMI transcoder can provide the same "raw" effect ?
like this one : AVH100F