XRGB-3

[Xyga]

Does a VGA - HDMI transcoder can provide the same "raw" effect ?
like this one : AVH100F

No, unfortunately with the VGA>HDMI converters a portion of the horizontal resolution is lost in the conversion, the XRGB ouputs 720x480, but the converter will 'understand' 640x480, which can sometimes produce visible artifacts like compressed vertical lines forming an odd pattern over the picture.

With the AA or the DVDO you won't have that problem.

[mimylovesjapan]

I just recieved XRGB2 !
I will try it and post again !

[mimylovesjapan]

Ok !
My XRGB2 looks nice on my PC screen (but lose 2 cm picture on the left. And grat to my 720p TV panasonic.
I can ajust somethings in Super menu for fixing Sync. It's great !

some questions :

1: One trouble : I can see some loud signal behind in screen. Like if the picture come from VHS... It's strong for S signal and just a little bit visible for RGB. I can reduce it by increase BLACK in menu.

2 : For my big screen, I plan to buy XSELECT D4 as a transcoder, if it's the best choice for japan.
Do you think it is possible to connect other VGA sources like DC VGA BOX. With a good render ?

3 : What is the best guy now to get a clean image from PS3 reading PS2 game (FAT60goJP) ?

[Xyga]

1: One trouble : I can see some loud signal behind in screen. Like if the picture come from VHS... It's strong for S signal and just a little bit visible for RGB. I can reduce it by increase BLACK in menu.

- You can reduce it by adjusting the DTC manually (first select DTC_TYP: USER, then go to the USR_DTC slider).
- The easiest way is to do it on a dark/black background with the brightness cranked up, so you see a grey~ish/washed out background where the noise is very apparent.
- Find the best degree on the slider, then revert your brightness/black/DA settings beck to their previous values.
I've succeeded is almost completely eliminate any noise or wave pattern like this, what is left is not visible unless you stick your nose on the screen.

but lose 2 cm picture on the left.

H_POS doesn't help ?

PS: Please note the XRGB's arent particularily good for S-Video and Composite, their only recognized strenght lies in how they handle RGB.

[mimylovesjapan]

thank you for the trick !
I was afraid that XRGB had some problem. I will try what you recomended !

[juji82]

mimyalovesjapan are you japanese?

[mimylovesjapan]

no ! I am french ^^

[Skips]

Not sure if this has been asked before or not but does the XRGB-3 have that wierd noise issue that the XRGB mini does. The one I am referring to is the one that requires you to play with the A/D level.

[RGB32E]

No, it doesn't have quite the same A/D level noise issue, but it does have a bag of other quirks. Bright colors don't have edges like found on the mini, as the full color bandwidth is preserved from end to end. Apparently the B0 mode at 1080p via DVI is more compatible with displays with the latest firmware. I haven't tested it yet with my display yet.

1. Different sources need tweaking of the AFC level adjustment, or else you'll get a "curl" at the top of the image.
2. Inputs don't always sync correctly - 15kHz RGB is incorrectly recognized as 31kHz or 47kHz (squished to top)
3. LPF is required with some sources to remove alternating pixels that are lighter/darker (JBs on Saturn that don't show up on the mini, even in Picture mode/lowest LPF).
4. Dot_by_dot option doesn't work as expected
5. Systems like the Neo Geo, and PC Engine will not be stable on many HDTVs in B1 mode. Overclocking the NG to a "standard" refresh rate should fix this. Perhaps a slight overclock on the PCE might be feasible.
6. Image trembling - especially true when using <1080p, and very much so with B1 line doubling mode.
7. Different inputs have different quality - both for component and RGB. The D2 input on the HD15 connector can provide a slightly sharper and cleaner output image than the front RGB21 "Game In"
8. 240p/480i transitions are generally quicker on the XRGB-3
9. Use of CSYNC instead of composite as sync CAN make improvements to picture quality and sync detection time, and not just due to cable construction.
10. Extremely faint JBs on 1080p output, regardless of source.

[Xyga]

Okay this is getting more and more puzzling, I've had mine for years too, and I have definitely not read this thread entirely but save for the Neo Geo and PCengine I don't own, I have never experienced several of the issues often mentioned.

1. for me only with arcade pcb's, never with consoles.
2. ???
3. not sure what you mean but it's true LPF is needed sometimes, not always.
4. was weird before but since 2.51 the added setting seems to work fine in cases. the scaling/pan settings still suck though.
5. -
6. wat ? for me it's even more stable than the DISPL that's already more stable than the XRGB2.
7. true
8. true
9. can't speak for that yet I've only got trouble with my PAL saturns.
10. seriously I haven't seen the faintest, but I haven't tried all systems I own @1080p yet. the only JB's I've ever seen come from my MD2's that haven't been modded for that.

Sometimes I wonder if I have the same XRGB3 everyone does because it seems less troublesome than others, or maybe I've been lucky with the displays as Bucko says but I doubt it.
Just one question: do you always have V_Sync on ?
For me it's really the game-changing setting on the XRGB3. With it on it will either work perfectly or give me Hell, depends on the display it seems.

[Skips]

Thank you both for the replies. Basically i am thinking of picking one up but mostly despised the background noise issue of the mini (it was pretty noticeable on my monitor and its visibility seems to change based on your display). It was my only unforgivable gripe with the mini but is one that would stop me from using it.

I had an XRGB-2 until it up and died and it was pretty snazzy. The wiggle issue of the XRGB-2 was tolerable but being locked to one scanline setting and 640x480 kinda sucked. I was hoping the XRGB-3 would be a good median between the two units. I will mostly only be playing NES and SNES on it, nothing fancy like arcade PCB's.

The background noise of the mini REALLY bothers me since I play a lot of 16 and 8 bit games that have dark backgrounds where it would be noticeable. Would you say the XRGB-3 is a good middle ground between the 2 and mini? As long as the noise is not as bad as the mini I can cope with it.

I know this sounds dumb but there just are certain video issues that bother me to no end and the noise on the Mini just happens to be one of those things for me. If the three is not a better solution to the 2 I would just get another 2 when I can find one. I just don't want to blow $300+ before I know though.

[Fudoh]

Basically i am thinking of picking one up

if you don't need a processor instantly, wait for marqs' linedoubler instead.

[RGB32E]

Basically i am thinking of picking one up

if you don't need a processor instantly, wait for marqs' linedoubler instead.

Marq's unit doesn't do 1080p and 5x scaling, right? So you won't be able to get a sharp image unless your display does 1:1, and you're fine with a small image?

[Fudoh]

It won't do 1080p at all and 720p also won't be usable for most users. But it's a hell of a replacement for the XRGB-2 or the 3 in B1 mode.

[Xyga]

It won't do 1080p at all and 720p also won't be usable for most users. But it's a hell of a replacement for the XRGB-2 or the 3 in B1 mode.

And the DISPL too !

[RGB32E]

Ok, fair enough. If the first model ships, perhaps he'll follow up with something more powerful... or not! Not sure if I have a use for this unit, as 480p is soft on my TV, regardless of component, HDMI or VGA/PC.

[Laughingman.s9]

No, it doesn't have quite the same A/D level noise issue, but it does have a bag of other quirks. Bright colors don't have edges like found on the mini, as the full color bandwidth is preserved from end to end. Apparently the B0 mode at 1080p via DVI is more compatible with displays with the latest firmware. I haven't tested it yet with my display yet.

1. Different sources need tweaking of the AFC level adjustment, or else you'll get a "curl" at the top of the image.
2. Inputs don't always sync correctly - 15kHz RGB is incorrectly recognized as 31kHz or 47kHz (squished to top)
3. LPF is required with some sources to remove alternating pixels that are lighter/darker (JBs on Saturn that don't show up on the mini, even in Picture mode/lowest LPF).
4. Dot_by_dot option doesn't work as expected
5. Systems like the Neo Geo, and PC Engine will not be stable on many HDTVs in B1 mode. Overclocking the NG to a "standard" refresh rate should fix this. Perhaps a slight overclock on the PCE might be feasible.
6. Image trembling - especially true when using <1080p, and very much so with B1 line doubling mode.
7. Different inputs have different quality - both for component and RGB. The D2 input on the HD15 connector can provide a slightly sharper and cleaner output image than the front RGB21 "Game In"
8. 240p/480i transitions are generally quicker on the XRGB-3
9. Use of CSYNC instead of composite as sync CAN make improvements to picture quality and sync detection time, and not just due to cable construction.
10. Extremely faint JBs on 1080p output, regardless of source.

Can confirm number 2, 15khz via the Xselect d4 using the dsub 15 pin input is basically unusable for me because of this, still looking for a workaround

[RuffNEC]

no, certainly not. For a LD player you need a good adaptive video mode along with fast switching between movie cadences and video material. Also a good comb filter would help.

something more conviniante than that faroudja model? I just want to connect me euro-scart connector!

[Fudoh]

Laserdisc is native composite, so Scart would just be another connector to carry composite video. No point in that.

[RuffNEC]

Laserdisc is native composite, so Scart would just be another connector to carry composite video. No point in that.

ok you're right composite in is required.

but any newer common upscalers that have HDMI output?

[Fudoh]

nothing in the price range or with the same quality.

If a line doubler offers 480p component output, you can easily add a cheap component to HDMI converter.

[RuffNEC]

nothing in the price range or with the same quality.

If a line doubler offers 480p component output, you can easily add a cheap component to HDMI converter.

xrgb-2 no difference? they even show a dvd player on the package. of course the output would be via VGA then.

[Fudoh]

XRGB's don't offer real deinterlacing. That's definitely nothing you want for a LD player.

[mimylovesjapan]

ok ! i also recieved my RGB cable for my SNES.
The image is great now with my XRGB2.
One more detail : a thin light verticalline is visible during the game. Maybe my VGA cable ?
I wait next month for buying the X-SELECT D4 for playing on my TV !

[Sargon]

I have an XRGB-3, which I am using for 240p devices (RGB-modded NES and Atari Jaguar SCART).

I currently have it running in B1 mode, using the VGA output through a 9a60 transcoder, which outputs a 480p signal to my TV and leaves it up to the TV to do the upscaling from 480p to 1080i (my TV supports 1080i maximum).

I recently ordered an HDFury 4S, which I planned to use for another purpose, but I wonder whether it might provide a better alternative to the method above. In theory, would I be better off using XRGB-3 B0 mode and running 1080p HDMI to the HDFury, which would do the scaling from 1080p to 1080i and send the native 1080i signal to my TV?

[Fudoh]

would I be better off using XRGB-3 B0 mode

it's a completely different look and operating mode, so I doubt that it would fit your preferences, if you're using B1 now.

native 1080i signal to my TV?

that's never a good idea, since 1080i requires more processing (deinterlacing) in the TV's side.

Depending on your TV, you're doing it the right way already. Adding a component to HDMI converter can help if your TV's scaling is better through HDMI as it is for component sources.

What are you using the HD Fury for ?

[Sargon]

What are you using the HD Fury for ?

I may need to rethink it based on your reply. I recently purchased an Xbox One and was disappointed in the picture quality on my old Hitachi RPTV. Text looks fuzzy on my TV, which I assumed was related to the TV scaling up from the Xbox One's 720p output.

I found this link (http://www.hdfury.com/xbox-one-no-1080i ... o-problem/), which seems to indicate that I would get a better, cleaner, picture if I set the Xbox One to output 1080p and then use the HDFury to scale it down to 1080i and send it to my TV via HDMI.

Are you saying that is not the case?

[Fudoh]

1080i is hardly a better solution than 720p.

The CRT projector in your RPTV will hardly have its sweetspot above 1280x720p, so I doubt that 1080i will look any better - - not even speaking of the general interlacing problem with any fast motion.

[BuckoA51]

Okay this is getting more and more puzzling, I've had mine for years too, and I have definitely not read this thread entirely but save for the Neo Geo and PCengine I don't own, I have never experienced several of the issues often mentioned.

The consoles that have the most difficulty with the XRGB3 in my experience are:-

Neo Geo AES
PC Engine
Sega Master System

If you don't have any of those it's actually entirely possible that you never ran into difficulties. I never have to manually adjust the AFC on any of my other systems (well, maybe ZX Spectrum but I haven't used it in a long time so might be remembering wrong).

I was able to fix them after a lot of trial and error by using an Extron interface configured to clamp sync timing to the back porch, as I recall (I have no idea what that means to be honest, but it works).

Don't forget the weird "if you don't use composite sync instead of composite video for sync the picture can disappear when the screen gets bright" quirk too. Certainly affects a lot of setups (including mine!)

[Xyga]

Indeed out of those three I only own the Master System and it's a power base converter (no problem).
Regarding the image loss on bright screens/flashes I've never had that problem as well, but it might really be luck this time as I may not have games challenging that weakness in my library.

All-in-all I still see the XRGB-3 as a very, very competent machine. It's not that I never ran into problems but looking back I realize it was almost always the sources and their connectivity/properties, or even the display (rarely though) that were causing trouble.
Even though that might sound like stating the obvious I mean "if you give it what it expects - a clean signal it can deal with - then it works beautifully", and it happens that it's possible to achieve that with a big majority of the sources.

Too bad some consoles, even exclusing the AES/PCE/MS I mean, are still so troublesome for stupid reasons like fucked up local RGB cable sync, noise issues, or whatever requiring above-beginner-level modding skills.