XRGB-3

[fagin]

Irregular dropouts and the top of the image with major skew.

[Konsolkongen]

Have you tried adjusting the AFC setting manually? Usually auto works perfectly, though.

[bryan_c]

Anything specifically you would like testing with the Sync Strike and XRGB-3 combo?

If you happen to have a Megadrive RGB cable using composite video (not composite sync) that results in jailbars, could you try sticking the Sync Strike in between the Megadrive and XRGB-3 to see if it reduces the jailbars? Though, if you don't already have a setup resulting in Megadrive jailbars, don't worry about it, as from what has already been discussed I'd expect using composite sync to work better than composite video through the Sync Strike.

More relevant to this part of the thread... would the Sync Strike help with your Neo Geo sync problems? Also, is it a PAL Neo Geo? I remember reading on Fudoh's site that the XRGB-3 often doesn't work well with 50Hz inputs, depending on the display.

[fagin]

I've done that much testing this afternoon, I lost track of the symptoms.

Apologies.

XRGB3 to LCD Monitor - No dropouts as such, but what looks like a sync issue. Tried adjusting AFC and no joy although it does help. It looks like the picture is losing h sync as the picture looks like it is or trying to roll (left and right).

Neo Geo is v1 composite sync NTSC

[Konsolkongen]

If you happen to have a Megadrive RGB cable using composite video (not composite sync) that results in jailbars, could you try sticking the Sync Strike in between the Megadrive and XRGB-3 to see if it reduces the jailbars?

Are you talking MegaDrive 1 or 2? In my experience MegaDrive 2's gives a great jailbar free picture but all MD1's I have had suffered from jailbars no matter what sync type you use. Adding a LM1881 to the sync line doesn't improve anything either.

I made this mod using a standard colorbooster amp:


It gives a slightly softer and darker picture but is almost completely jailbar free. Adding scanlines it just looks perfect Here is without scanlines:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e236/ ... 1311450643

More info and tedious trial and error here:
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... hp?t=32194

[fagin]

Bryan,
It's already using composite sync. No need for further sync splitting.... But i did try it. Infact I tried everything. Lol

Even wanging SCART straight in to a LCD the picture isnt stable, which I haven't seen on any other console before. It's just a bit wobbly. No where near as bad as going through the XRGB-3 though.

The Neogeo is one of the first. Serial number is 11xx. I know there are apparently a number of revisions of the RGB circuit, with the first version of consoles not being the best.

[BuckoA51]

Version 1 Neogeo AES has major sync problems even using composite sync. Fired up the 2+ and it's fine.

Did you try my Extron 580xi Comp Sync trick that I talked about in the DVDO Edge thread?

[bryan_c]

If you happen to have a Megadrive RGB cable using composite video (not composite sync) that results in jailbars, could you try sticking the Sync Strike in between the Megadrive and XRGB-3 to see if it reduces the jailbars?

Are you talking MegaDrive 1 or 2? In my experience MegaDrive 2's gives a great jailbar free picture but all MD1's I have had suffered from jailbars no matter what sync type you use. Adding a LM1881 to the sync line doesn't improve anything either.

Genesis 2, actually. I only asked using the MegaDrive name because that's what fagin mentions in his videos.

Thanks for saving me the time and money of trying a sync stripper. At some point I'll try modding the RGB cable to use composite sync as has been suggested many times, though I keep procrastinating...

Just cracked my Genesis 2 open for the first time; it's a VA1 with a wretched jailbar-inducing Samsung KA2195D. Oh well, at least I didn't pay anything for it - a friend gave it away. I doubt he would have even noticed the jailbars much, as he only had an RF cable. At least even with the more pronounced jailbars it looks much better via RGB to the XRGB than via RF!

[fagin]

Version 1 Neogeo AES has major sync problems even using composite sync. Fired up the 2+ and it's fine.

Did you try my Extron 580xi Comp Sync trick that I talked about in the DVDO Edge thread?

Yes and it didnt help.

P.S. Just to be clear... it is fine in B0 mode.

[edwinbradford]

B1 is primarily for 240p. 480i is okay, looks better with scanlines enabled. 480p is simply transcoded and the quality of the transcoding is not great. B0 does a very good job scaling 480p signals, but the quality depends on the source. Some games, like Gradius V and 2D Dreamcast fighters look fantastic, while others not so much. The scaling is very sharp and some games look much better with a softer scaling engine with interpolation (Dead or Alive 2, Soul Calibur, Tokyo Extreme Racer 2, off the top of my head).

OK, actually I'd already given B1 a go before I saw your post but I'll put it back to B0 which I was very happy with for years. It just so happens I got out my unopened copy of Gradius V a couple of weeks back. This is a fantastic forum, thanks everyone for the help.

[BuckoA51]

Yes and it didnt help.

P.S. Just to be clear... it is fine in B0 mode.

For real, it made no difference? I've not had one instance of this making no difference at all so far, that's a shame... Did you have the NTSC AFC set to Auto? Did the light on the DVDO blink when the picture lost sync do you remember?

Also, on my SMS converter + XRGB3 B1 + Extron + DVDO Edge, I have to sometimes turn it off and on several times before the DVDO 'locks' to the picture, sometimes it'll flicker off and on for a bit and then suddenly lock on and stay stable, weird I know but something to try.

[SGGG2]

I got out my unopened copy of Gradius V a couple of weeks back. This is a fantastic forum, thanks everyone for the help.

You'll need a HDTV Xploder disc or the homebrew program GS Mode Selector to boot Gradius V in 480p.
http://psx-scene.com/forums/f19/gs-mode ... ack-61808/

[edwinbradford]

I've got B1 mode working with scanlines but I'm getting what I would describe as a mild high frequency horizontal judder / shaking across the width of the screen, is this a known issue? There's no vertical distortion, just horizontal. I've tested PS1 titles output via the PS2 and the Wii and its the same on both. B0 mode is completely stable apart from being off center which is a known problem I believe. I've been through all the menu options and Fudoh's guides and run out of things to change so I'm guessing that's as good as B1 gets. My TV is a Toshiba Regza C/X3030 LCD but I tried outputting to my PC monitor and the judder is the same.

[SGGG2]

In conjunction with manually setting AFC and enabling the low pass filter, feeding the XRGB into a DVDO Edge, Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler *Plus* or Optoma HD3000 will calm the jutter to the point where it's invisible.

[BuckoA51]

I'd advise against manually setting the AFC in most cases, if I manually set the AFC on the SMS converter the Edge keeps losing the picture. Usually auto is as good as it gets and more importantly, better than any manual setting.

Changing sync polarity can also stop the jutter in some cases, as can adding a Extron RGB unit.

[SGGG2]

On my set up, manual is always better. I don't have an Edge, though. Setting the screen size to underscan helps in some cases.

[fagin]

Yes and it didnt help.

P.S. Just to be clear... it is fine in B0 mode.

For real, it made no difference? I've not had one instance of this making no difference at all so far, that's a shame... Did you have the NTSC AFC set to Auto? Did the light on the DVDO blink when the picture lost sync do you remember?

Also, on my SMS converter + XRGB3 B1 + Extron + DVDO Edge, I have to sometimes turn it off and on several times before the DVDO 'locks' to the picture, sometimes it'll flicker off and on for a bit and then suddenly lock on and stay stable, weird I know but something to try.

Not enough difference to warrant the image usable. Obviously these v1 AES systems are problematic.

Strange how the XRGB-2+ has no issues!

[BuckoA51]

Not enough difference to warrant the image usable. Obviously these v1 AES systems are problematic.

Ah right, more like I would expect, I'll document this.

[fagin]

I've got B1 mode working with scanlines but I'm getting what I would describe as a mild high frequency horizontal judder / shaking across the width of the screen, is this a known issue? There's no vertical distortion, just horizontal. I've tested PS1 titles output via the PS2 and the Wii and its the same on both. B0 mode is completely stable apart from being off center which is a known problem I believe. I've been through all the menu options and Fudoh's guides and run out of things to change so I'm guessing that's as good as B1 gets. My TV is a Toshiba Regza C/X3030 LCD but I tried outputting to my PC monitor and the judder is the same.

I get zero issues with my PS2.

Are your PS2 and Wii outputing a PAL video signal perchance?

[edwinbradford]

I get zero issues with my PS2.

Are your PS2 and Wii outputing a PAL video signal perchance?

No, all my consoles are Japanese imports now, everything is connected with D-Terminals. I have a PS2, Wii and GameCube permanently connected to an XSelect D4, from there it goes to an XVI-2 Line Splitter (from Micomsoft) where the signal is then split with one going to the television via the XRGB-3 and the other going to my Earthsoft P4 video capture card (DTerminal Input).

The result is the signal on my TV is upscaled but the signal received at the capture card is not. Everything's always worked perfectly but I realize I haven't tried out B1 yet. I have a Saturn too but its rarely connected.

[Fudoh]

Edwin, try to make a DSub15 to DSub15 connection between the XSelect and the XRGB instead of using a component or D-Terminal connection. The Component to RGB transcoding in the XRGB filters the signal additionally. Especially with a PS2 you should have no problem whatsoever after that. You have to set the DSub15 (D2) on the XRGB to RGBHV to make this work.

[fagin]

I'm sure this question has been done to death on this thread... but:

Which is the best Megadrive to get for the XRGB-3, 1 or 2?

Is it OK to use a PAL one that has been modded to 60hz (RGB), or does it need to be a JAP one.

[Fudoh]

PAL one's fine. There are various mainboard revisions which deliver different results. With the proper cable and the right settings, the results are quite nice with a model 1 MD. On my setup a model 1 and a Multi-Mega look exactly the same. Konsolkongen says that a model 2 might look even better, while I think a model 2 should be identical to a Multi-Mega.

[edwinbradford]

Edwin, try to make a DSub15 to DSub15 connection between the XSelect and the XRGB instead of using a component or D-Terminal connection. The Component to RGB transcoding in the XRGB filters the signal additionally. Especially with a PS2 you should have no problem whatsoever after that. You have to set the DSub15 (D2) on the XRGB to RGBHV to make this work.

Thanks Fudoh, will do. In fact that point was mentioned in one of your (most excellent) guides, I spotted it yesterday and realized at the time I was using DTerminal between the two instead. I have a spare DSub15 to DSub15 cable, I should be able to reroute, I'll post back with the results...

OK I did that. It fixed the judder although I'm left with a slight vertical warp similar to the one from http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/xrgb3_saturn_wave.jpg only slightly more pronounced. It shows regardless of console, overall though the best result of the lot.

[fagin]

Since decent YT footage is rare on what the XRGB-3 looks like, I have uploaded some video for anyone that wants to see how it performs (in B0 mode).

Plenty of "quality" caveats but gives a very good idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH9_XMtd ... ideo_title

[Fudoh]

although I'm left with a slight vertical warp similar to the one

you can try to add one step to the AFC setting for this input.

[edwinbradford]

you can try to add one step to the AFC setting for this input.

I have to take the AFC Level all the way up to 6 , even at 5 it doesn't fix it, the screen edges becomes straight-ish but the image starts juddering as though unstable. Does that tell you anything? Anyway I think I found the cause, I plugged the PS2 into the XRGB-3's "D in 1" socket directly and turned on Low Pass Filter in B1 mode with pretty good results, very subtle tremor, hardly noticeable, and no warping on AFC Level 2. I then plugged the PS2 back into the XSelect D4 > VGA Out > XRGB-3 and the warped image is back with the Low Pass Filter now not helping.

Aside from that by following your suggestion of routing the XSELECT D4 to the XRGB-3 via the VGA Out I was able to take my line splitter out of the whole network. After reading http://nfggames.com/games/xselectd4/ it seems the XSelect D4 outputs to both the DTerminal and VGA at once so I now have the XSELECT D4 DTerminal going to the capture card and the VGA Out to the XRGB-3. Great result.

[Sargon]

Can anyone provide a link to the pinout for the "D IN 2" RGB input?

[Konsolkongen]

Use H sync for sync if you want to use it for RGBs signals.

[BuckoA51]

edwinbradford - Try changing the H-SYNC and V-SYNC polarities too, see if that improves your judder/screen warping.