XRGB-3

[Fudoh]

Use variable ones, so you can adjust them live during use.

[zoinknoise]

okay, i managed to get a capture of what my '3 is doing. i can't capture anything besides standard NTSC analog signals, so i set the XRGB3 to 640x480 and put the VGA output thru a scan converter to get a standard composite signal. the problem(?) is still obvious despite the low resolution of this clip.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/127 ... oweron.mkv

i started capturing while everything was turned on except the XRGB3, so it's powering up while my DC is already feeding it a signal. you can see it takes a while to stabilize and settle down, which is kind of disconcerting. but once it does it looks fine.

it does NOT do this if i turn it off and back on again; this sort of thing only happens when my XRGB3 starts cold after being turned off for a while.

however, once the '3 is on for awhile and starts getting warm, the picture starts to get unstable again and the brightness/sync issues i mentioned before start occurring. i honestly can't tell at this point if something is wrong with my unit or not.

[zoinknoise]

and here's a cap of what happens to the picture after the '3 has been on for a while:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12785668/xrgb3.mkv

at 1080p the distortion is greatly reduced but still noticeable. i had to capture in 640x480 because of my hardware; the problem is much more visible at this resolution anyway.

[BuckoA51]

Just seen that, looks like sync instability, something the XRGB3 is known for.

After all these years I may have figured out a way to allow manual AFC on the XRGB3 + DVDO/ABT combo. I'd appreciate it if anyone who has the required parts would test this too. You need an Extron Interface that has the ability to change video sync clamping. I'm not even really sure what that is but anyway. ON the 203Rxi it is an internal jumper, you will have to check the user manual for your interface to see if yours can do it. Anyway here's what you do:-

1) Set this jumper to clamp sync timing to the sync tip rather than the back porch.
2) Put your Extron interface back together. Connect it to the Edge using the RGBHV inputs, but connect using composite sync, not separate sync. On the Edge, You attach the composite sync wire to the H input and leave the V input empty.
3) Make sure that DDSP switch is up (Centering controls disabled).

That's it, now try a PC Engine or Sega Master system, do the required manual AFC adjustment and see if the picture stays stable. I played about a half hour of New Adventure Island and about 15 mins of Master System games without the picture dropping. The picture is not quite as good as the Mini as it has a tiny bit of sync instability to it (warping at the top plus ever so slight shimmer to some parts of the image) but it's pretty decent and of course a fraction of the input lag of the Mini along with the Edge's superior zoom/pan controls it is well worth doing.

Fingers crossed that has solved it, though I thought that before only to get the odd picture dropout again.

Update - Played well over an hour of Soldier Blade tonight, not one picture dropout. I think we can call this fixed. Looks like you are pretty much redundant, XRGB Mini! (well okay, might keep you round for 480i games since you're already here).

[jepjepjep]

Hey guys, any suggestions on getting my pcengine working in B1 mode? B0 mode works nicely. I've tried adjusting the RGB termination 75<->220 Ohm and AFC level, but still no picture (just black screen).

I'm feeding my XRGB-3 into an NEC EA231WMi monitor and the B1 mode works fine for my Saturn, PS1/2, Super Famicom and AV Famicom. I've also tried adding an extron interface between the xrgb3 and the monitor but it didn't seem to help. The PC Engine is a doujindance rgb mod.

[BuckoA51]

Can you change sync timing on your Extron interface as described above? Have you made sure your interface has DDSP off? Can your monitor accept composite sync instead of separate sync? Try all that if you can.

[jepjepjep]

Thanks for the suggestions Bucko. I took apart my extron tonight to try out the sync timing jumper, but unfortunately there was no difference. I tried with DDSP on and off, neither seems to work. I believe my rgb mod uses composite sync already. I'm not up for modifying the rgb install, so it looks like I'm going to have to live with B0 mode. Any other ideas?

[BuckoA51]

Try composite sync out of the Extron, if your monitor can handle that.

[jepjepjep]

I tried composite sync and RGBHV out of the extron, no luck. Bummer.

[Fudoh]

You should check how the sync line is handled on the Doujindance mods. The PCE/Duo offers both c-sync and composite video and there's a good chance that he just uses video (or unfiltered sync) for RGB sync. I had lots of trouble with various PCE systems on the XRGB-3. You might have to run the sync line through the same kind of booster used for the RGB lines. And if that doesn't work, you need to add a stripper (LM1881) to the sync line.

After that, it should work fine. These are really easy mods, so if you know anybody locally who can handle a soldering iron, this will be a matter of a few minutes.

[BuckoA51]

I second that, you absolutely need clean sync out of the PC Engine to stand a chance. Even then, it wasn't until I discovered the trick above that I could get any PC Engine working with my particular XRGB3 setup.

[jepjepjep]

Okay, thanks for the tips. I'll try getting a clean sync signal when I get a chance to open this thing up.

[BuckoA51]

Even with clean sync the PC Engine (and the Sega Master System) are extremely problematic with the XRGB3, so just be warned. It may just be that your monitor is incompatible.

[Sixfortyfive]

Well, this is interesting:

http://www.sixfortyfive.com/temp/xrgb3lag.jpg

XRGB-3: faster than some CRT TVs?

On the left is a cheap CRT TV. On the right is a VGA PC monitor with an XRGB-3. Composite video is being split to both displays from a 240p source, and the monitor appears to be drawing the next frame faster than the TV. We snapped 60 pictures (iPhone 5s camera) and they were all pretty consistent with this.

We double-checked the TV afterward to make sure that there was no optional post-processing turned on. Other than the sharpness setting, which we were unsure if it was supposed to be at 0 or 50%, there didn't seem to be anything.

[Xyga]

On the left is a cheap CRT TV

This is the strangest crt tv I have ever seen.

[Sixfortyfive]

On the left is a cheap CRT TV

This is the strangest crt tv I have ever seen.

Smash Bros players bring weird setups to tournaments.

[BuckoA51]

I forget the name of them but they were pretty desirable in the early 90s. The speakers fold in when it's not in use then fold out to make some sort of 90's monstrosity just for gaming.

[cfx]

Samsung GXTV

[spaceape]

Will any component to scart cable work for getting a 480p resolution and above through the Game in port?

[BuckoA51]

Component to RGB21 yes, at least for 480p haven't tried higher.

[blizzz]

XRGB-3: faster than some CRT TVs?

On the left is a cheap CRT TV. On the right is a VGA PC monitor with an XRGB-3. Composite video is being split to both displays from a 240p source, and the monitor appears to be drawing the next frame faster than the TV. We snapped 60 pictures (iPhone 5s camera) and they were all pretty consistent with this.

I don't have an iPhone, but I got impossible results with my Galaxy S2 camera with these comparisons. A while ago I did some input lag tests on the SC-500N1 and got 0ms results with my phone. When I rotated the phone the results changed. There's some weird processing in phone camera apps, most likely to stabilize the image.

[spaceape]

Component to RGB21 yes, at least for 480p haven't tried higher.

I'll just use a component to scart and then connect the EuroSCART to JP21 adapter to the game in port. There's no overview over what resolutions are supported on the wiki like with the D-Terminals. I gather it supports up to 750p as it's written below the port.

[BuckoA51]

That's what I used here and it worked just fine.

[spaceape]

Are the XRGB-3 scanlines supposed to look like they have banding or shadows between them. Like this?



Do the SLG3000 have more even scanlines without the shadows? More like this?

[Sixfortyfive]

Are the XRGB-3 scanlines supposed to look like they have banding or shadows between them. Like this?

Are you using a 480p display? If not, the TV might be upscaling the image poorly.

[Fudoh]

Technically the SLG3000 and the XRGB should produce the exact same results. The SLG3000 works on 480i fed into the XRGB-3 as well and you can choose between odd and even scanlines, which can be an advantage on a few titles.

What you see should be caused by your TV, but it should be NOWHERE near what you see on the top image you just posted. We're talking a Sony LCD now, right ? The different overscan settings will make a TINY difference, but all in all, all possible settings will look good.

You're right now using this weird chinese transcoder, which isn't a real transcoder, right ? That's most likely the cause.

[Fudoh]

See this from my Sony review - that's what you can expect from a XRGB-3 running through a real transcoder.

[spaceape]

See this from my Sony review - that's what you can expect from a XRGB-3 running through a real transcoder.

Hmm yeah it's strange possibly the cheap chinese transcoder. Im using my Sony W7 yes.

I changed the vga output setting from 640x480 to 1024x764 to keep the picture from being locked at the left side of the screen but i don't think the pictures visual appearance changed.

The tv is also rather dark. I have to pick the Game-standard, neutral, backlight at maximum and gamma at +1 or +2 to just have acceptable bright image.

It's using my NESRGB modded AV Famicom into the XRGB-3 Game in port.

[spaceape]

Well mine aren't nearly bad as the top picture from my previous post but it still have a kind of wavy picture going from light to slightly darker and back again. Like this, sorry about my crappy phone pic:

[Fudoh]

That's caused by your scaler (which you use as a transcoder).