XRGB-3

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brownvim
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by brownvim »

BuckoA51 wrote:
Just measured the circles and yes, they are perfectly round.
Very interesting! Are they perfect on your Dreamcast when you go VGA 720x480 in via the XRGB3 (Dreamcast->XRGB3->Monitor) ?

Dreamcast is the only system where I don't get round circles @480p. Wii and Gamecube are both fine regardless of if I transcode to VGA with the XRGB3 or do direct into the DVDO with component.

Yes they are perfect after I have adjusted the pixel clock and set the image to 4:3 on my monitor

if i tell the monitor to just "auto adjust" it never gets it right, the circles are squashed horizontally.
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BuckoA51
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by BuckoA51 »

That's a real puzzle then! There's no pixel clock etc controls on the DVDO so I guess I'm stuck with this mid way 16:9 stretch.

I mean I could understand if the problem was with all 720x480 content fed in by VGA but it's not, only Dreamcast.
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brownvim
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by brownvim »

doesnt the dreamcast put a black border around the whole image in 480p mode? maybe thats y?
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

That's a real puzzle then! There's no pixel clock etc controls on the DVDO so I guess I'm stuck with this mid way 16:9 stretch
I read your postings on the page back, but I don't get the problem. Your Chu Chu screenshot shows what's expected. DC is supposed to cover roughly 1700 pixels in 16:9 mode on a 1920 pixel display. The Edge assumes 720 pixels in width for the incoming signal for the full 4:3 or 16:9 area. DC only fills 640 pixels of that.

Did the Edge have seperate horizontal zoom or just an overscan control ? You're supposed to run the DC with the Edge set to 4:3 and then apply about 10% in horizontal zoom/stretch.
'I mean I could understand if the problem was with all 720x480 content fed in by VGA but it's not, only Dreamcast.
DC's the only system to run internally on VESA specs, but then pads the signal to SMTPE specs.
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BuckoA51
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by BuckoA51 »

I read your postings on the page back, but I don't get the problem.
Problem is in 480p mode Dreamcast never has the correct aspect ratio according to the linearity check on my setup, it does on brownvim's
Did the Edge have seperate horizontal zoom or just an overscan control ?
It's got both.
You're supposed to run the DC with the Edge set to 4:3
4:3 is waaaay to squished, the black bars are huge and the aspect ratio is still way out. My photo was with 16:9 aspect on the Edge.
and then apply about 10% in horizontal zoom/stretch.
Let me go play with this again before I make myself look foolish, because I thought even in 4:3 aspect the picture was already too zoomed in on the horizontal, which doesn't seem to make sense.
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BuckoA51
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by BuckoA51 »

SUCCESS! Thanks Fudoh I was able to get perfect aspect ratio this time. I am not sure what the issue was last time. Pretty darn cool now I can choose between perfect AR and a slightly stretched and overscanned but still pretty nice compromise.
DC's the only system to run internally on VESA specs, but then pads the signal to SMTPE specs.
Yes of course you have told me this before, I should have remembered.
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

One thing I dislike about all DVDO processors: in 4:3 mode they don't let you zoom out of the 4:3 area. And in 16:9 mode you cannot apply negative horizontal zoom....
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BuckoA51
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by BuckoA51 »

Yeah that would be awesome if you could do that, which processors do actually let you do that then, out of interest?

Still, all this functionality and only 6ms input lag is still pretty good I think.
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Xyga
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Xyga »

IIRC you can display a 4:3 image inside a 16:9 frame and do whatever you want with it ? No ? (not at home so I can't double-check).
I think I've been doing that at least with the VP30.
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

Lumagen let's yo do whatever you want. Terrible masking/overscan control though.

Xyga, try to get an active image slightly wider than the full 4:3. Won't work.
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SGGG2
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by SGGG2 »

lol, I jumped the gun with my earlier statements concerning image quality with the Extron. :oops:

I removed it from the chain and went back to using the XSelect after the XRGB-3, then switched back. Other than an obviously stronger signal there doesn't appear to be much, if any, difference in the scaling itself. I must have gotten so used to the Optoma that when I switched back to the Scaler Plus I didn't remember it's look properly and mistook the stronger image for other qualities... :roll:

Anyway, I definitely prefer the look of the Gefen for NES games and the like and the Extron is fantastic for image adjustments!
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brownvim
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by brownvim »

I was playing around with the DVI In feature yesterday.

PC 2nd DVI Out - XRGB3 DVI In - XRGB VGA Out - DELL Monitor VGA In

I wasn't aware that it did a Digital to Analogue conversion, handy to use my other monitor as a 2nd screen. The picture does tear though if you move the windows really fast.
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Artemio
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Artemio »

BuckoA51 wrote:SUCCESS! Thanks Fudoh I was able to get perfect aspect ratio this time. I am not sure what the issue was last time. Pretty darn cool now I can choose between perfect AR and a slightly stretched and overscanned but still pretty nice compromise.
It could also have been my fault. I had not fixed the Dreamcast version with the corrected linearity for VGA, until the 1.20 update. Sorry about that.
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

I have the feeling that Sega didn't give it much thought either. I bet the majority of titles just assume a 1:1 pixel ratio for the 640x480p area.
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brownvim
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by brownvim »

On the wiki it says a person called Gradius got B1 working through DVI, anyone know how this was done?

"Update (by Gradius): I'm able to get DVI > HDMI output by using FPGA mode B1 on my LG W2363D, however the frequency output is something odd (not 60Hz nor 59.94Hz), so not every monitor/TV will be able to display video signal."
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Having some problems with my XRGB3.

I took it out of storage to test out some new cables on it.

When I hook the Dreamcast or NES(NES RGB Modded) up to it through the GAME IN, the screen goes black when I turn a system on(it also says NO INPUT).

When I turn the system off, the screen will go blue again, and let me fiddle with the options again.
One odd thing, when I turn the Dreamcast on, it will say for a split second 5 hundred something i. I guess that's the resolution. But then it just goes black.

It still works fine with my PS2, going through the same input.

Ideas?
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

Try switching the impedance between 75 and 220ohm for the GAME IN - it's an option in the menu.
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brownvim
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by brownvim »

Do you have ur PS2 set to component thru the GAME IN port?

If u do then might have to set it back to RGB to get it working again with Dreamcast:

Menu, Options, RGB-21 Signal, RGBC
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Ah, I had it set to YUV, rather than RGB.

Thanks for the input, as it pointed me in the right direction. It's been a long time since I've messed with it.
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Sixfortyfive »

I just tested out a setup that I'm going to be using for a Saturn Bomberman tournament in a few weeks and one of the issues I had to troubleshoot doesn't make any sense.

The setup chain is:
> Saturn
> RGB cable
> XSYNC-1 (21-pin input, DSUB-15 output)
> XCAPTURE-1 (DSUB-15 input and output)
> XRGB-3 (DSUB-15 input and output)
> VGA splitter
> LCD monitors

Initially, I had the XRGB-3 set to accept "RGBHV" input on the D IN 2 port, but this gave me a scrambled picture at best. Removing the XCAPTURE-1 and VGA splitter from the chain didn't change anything. It was only when I changed the D IN 2 setting to "RGBC" that everything worked. Why is that? The main function of the XSYNC is to split composite sync into separate H/V sync in the first place, so it doesn't really make sense to me that the XRGB-3 displays the picture when set to composite sync but not separate sync.
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

can't tell you why, but I can confirm it. On the RGB input on the back I had to switch between RGBHV and RGBs depending on the actual source - although all were running through an XSelect-D4 which was set to RGBHV output as well....
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by zoinknoise »

hi guys--i was referred here by Artemio and i haven't noticed anyone in this thread with the same problem as i'm having with my XRGB3.

basically i am concerned that something inside my unit is failing because of erratic behavior. i'm getting an unstable picture when i connect my Dreamcast at 31khz RGBHV in B0 mode using the DVI output.

the picture will judder very slightly left and right, and the luma signal seems to be messed up somehow. it's like the picture's brightness will vary slightly every frame, and sometimes it looks like faint bands of interference in the luma signal. the color signals seem unaffected.

for some reason the amount of instability decreases as the DVI output resolution goes up. at 640x480 it's very unstable and bad and then gradually gets better as the resolution goes up. at 1080p it's almost gone but still noticeable. i've played with the H/V settings but nothing really seems to make a difference (though i think V-sync lock helped a tiny bit)

also, just now when i turned on the XRGB3 while the DC was already on, the picture was completely unwatchable and full of analog noise. then it slowly cleared up and stabilized, took about ten seconds. could it be a bad capacitor or opamp?

curious if there are any components inside the XRGB3 that are known to fail. i am comfortable with opening up the unit and changing out parts to make the unit more stable. any advice would be appreciated. 8)
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brownvim
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by brownvim »

Does this happen on any other inputs on the XRGB3?

Take a video of the problem, someone should be able to help you.
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

The DC's peak voltage levels with VGA output are way too high. This alone can cause weird behaviour, especially in regard to the brightness shifts. The instability can be caused by the fact that the XRGB-3 might treat the signal as 640x480 (instead of 720x480) - I can't remember having the B0 mode ever tested for this.

In other words: you might have to take care of the voltage leves first before you jump to any conclusions.
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by zoinknoise »

okay i'll try to rig up a capture. it won't be HD and i'll have to take it out of the VGA output (limited by my equipment), but hopefully it'll look better than pointing my phone at the screen. :P

i'll also play around with the other inputs. from memory this sort of thing never happened before (i bought my '3 mostly for 240p retro gaming years ago) but it's worth experimenting now that i'm starting to have problems.

yeah Artemio did tell me (on twitter) that plugging a DC at 31khz into an XRGB3 would be pointless and I agree with him, but my TV doesn't have a VGA input unfortunately and i already had my XRGB3 lying around. i just need to digitize the VGA signal and it's the only box i have to do the job, because my TV luckily *does* have a DVI-D in.
Fudoh wrote:you might have to take care of the voltage leves first before you jump to any conclusions.
what's the most elegant way of doing that? a custom cable maybe?
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

You can add resistors for the RGB lines within the VGA box.
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by zoinknoise »

Fudoh wrote:You can add resistors for the RGB lines within the VGA box.
do you have a schematic? i'm actually using the original Sega VGA box, unmodified and i'm not sure if i want to mess with it. i might be getting a second VGA box soon just for the 15khz mod and if i do, i'm interested in this mod as well.

do any dreamcast VGA boxes attenuate the signal properly, making the mod unnecessary?
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Fudoh
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

do any dreamcast VGA boxes attenuate the signal properly, making the mod unnecessary?
as far as I can tell: no.

You don't need a schematic. Just a resistor for each of the RGB lines.
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brownvim
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by brownvim »

I use a Hanzo VGA box and it's worked fine through my XRGB3, the picture is better straight into my monitor tho.
zoinknoise
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Re: XRGB-3

Post by zoinknoise »

Fudoh wrote:
do any dreamcast VGA boxes attenuate the signal properly, making the mod unnecessary?
as far as I can tell: no.

You don't need a schematic. Just a resistor for each of the RGB lines.
right but what values?
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