XRGB-3

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Icarus
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Post by Icarus »

Excellent, glad to hear it works.
Feels nice to simplify, doesn't it. ^_-
Where did you get your VP30 from, by the way? eBay?
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zakk
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Post by zakk »

Yeah, ebay. Search for 'iScan' and that should bring up a bunch. I think I had some good timing here, but I would imagine similar deals can be had with patience


Icarus wrote:Excellent, glad to hear it works.
Feels nice to simplify, doesn't it. ^_-
Where did you get your VP30 from, by the way? eBay?
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Icarus
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Post by Icarus »

zakk wrote:Yeah, ebay. Search for 'iScan' and that should bring up a bunch. I think I had some good timing here, but I would imagine similar deals can be had with patience
Yeah, there's a HD and a VP30 on there, but the guy selling the VP30 has 0 feedback, so I am sceptical. Especially with something like this.
The video you posted looks amazing by the way. Quality is top-notch.
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

very nice video, signal levels are a bit too high (= turn down the contrast), but excellent quality.

What's your capture device ?
zakk
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Post by zakk »

And that's post-resistors on the RGB signals!


The capture device is a Hauppauge HD-PVR (http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html)
Fudoh wrote:very nice video, signal levels are a bit too high (= turn down the contrast), but excellent quality.

What's your capture device ?
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

And that's post-resistors on the RGB signals!
as long as the VP30 plays along it's not a problem. The levels just seem a bit high for the capture device, so might want to reduce the contrast (white level) on the VP30. Try -10 or so...
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

I was (and am) still confused about the XRGB3's ability to create emulated scanline. I had a friend email Micomsoft about it and here's the answer:

この度は、XRGB-3についてお問い合わせいただき、ありがと
うございます。
マイコンソフトの磯部と申します。

お問い合わせのV_LINE機能(スキャンライン機能)ですが、残念
ながらXRGB-3にはございません。

V_LINE機能は単純に垂直(縦)のドット数が倍の画像にしか使用
できません。

XRGB-2やXRGB-2plusは、ラインダブラー方式による映像変換で、
CRTディスプレイに表示しているのでこの様な機能は使用できます。
しかし、XRGB-3は液晶ディスプレイに最適な画像を、スケーリング
によって作成しているため、V_LINEの機能を搭載できませんでした。

もし、仮にV_LINE機能を搭載できても、液晶で使用した場合、液晶
ディスプレイのスケーリング機能によって画面が拡大されることが
あるので、綺麗には表示できないと思われます。

尚、XRGB-3には弊社Webページにて、「おためし版」のトランスコ
ーダーモード用のファームウェアデータを公開しております。

この、トランスコーダーモードをご使用の場合に限り、15kHzの映像
(VIDEO/S/D1(525i)/21pinRGB)をラインダブラー方式によって表
示しているため、スペシャル・メニュー内の「VL_V」にてV_LINEと同
じ機能を実現できます。
尚、トランスコーダーモードは、CRTディスプレイ専用のモードであ
るので、液晶ディスプレイでは正しく表示ができません。

トランスコーダーモードはお買い上げ頂いたそのままの状態では
ご利用になれませんので、お客様側でファームウェアアップデート
などの作業が必要となります。

詳しくは弊社Webページの「XRGB-3」-「ダウンロード」をご覧くださ
い。

それでは何卒宜しくお願いいたします。

Since I don't own a XRGB3 anymore, I'm nevertheless very interested to learn what they meant. They're obviously talking about B1 mode when they mean "transcoder" mode (?). From what I understand in B1 mode there's a VL_V option available which should create something "very similar" to emulated scanlines.

Somebody check this out please !

Thanks,
Fudoh
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Strider77
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Post by Strider77 »

I'm very curious about this also.... does the XRGB3 now have emulated scanline features?

it doesn't have support for odd sync stuff like raiden fighters though, right?
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Post by zakk »

Strider77 wrote:I'm very curious about this also.... does the XRGB3 now have emulated scanline features?

it doesn't have support for odd sync stuff like raiden fighters though, right?
In line doubling mode it acts just like an XRGB2+, it passes the vertical sync timing through. So if your display can't handle 54hz, it won't work.

In the other upscaling modes, they output 60fps regardless of the input timing.
The image will be shifted a bit, but it was there when was doing my testing.
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

Come on guys, I'm sure someone has still got a XRGB3 left at home. Can somebody try the VL_V option in B1 with the last FW update from May and tell what it looks like ? A screenshot would be appreciated.
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Strider77
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Post by Strider77 »

yeah... in the same boat as fudoh... really want to know.
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

OK, just re-ordered one to check it out.
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

A friend of mine confirmed, scanlines are now available on the XRGB3.

Image

Supposedly there's even an option for vertical fake scanlines. I'll confirm with Screenshots once I got my XRGB3 (next week).
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Strider77
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Post by Strider77 »

that is awsome, so does the XRGB3 have the weak verticle sync also when used in the line doubler mode?
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

If I remember right, then yes, but honestly there's been a year between seeing a 2+, then a 3 and then a 2+ again. I'll have both at home next week and I'll compare.
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jandrogo
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Post by jandrogo »

Fudoh,

that picture it's very nice... which game is? which system, and the most important: What type of screen?
Working in the japanese language achievement
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

That's a Full HD Samsung LCD (2007 model), the Lomax Jump'n'Run by Psygnosis running on a PS1 or PS2 through a XRGB3.

Very CRT-like, isn't it ?
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jandrogo
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Post by jandrogo »

Very nice pic, you can even count the pixels... and the scanlines look very natural

How much the XRGB-3 costs and for what price can be shipped to europe?
Working in the japanese language achievement
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

How much the XRGB-3 costs and for what price can be shipped to europe?
You don't really need a XRGB3. To use the scanline emulation mode you need to switch it to the XRGB2 mode anyway. For Europe you can expect around 170 EUR for a XRGB2+ and about 250 EUR for a XRGB3. They both have Component and RGB inputs.

I will post some comparison shots between the two machines next week and after that I'll have one of the two for sale anyway, so feel free to drop me a PM afterwards.
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akumajo
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Post by akumajo »

hello there, i'm new here :p

i just want to thanks fudoh and co for the updates

so it seems that xrgb 3 is the new killer...
it only need an english translation, maybe it's possible to hack the firmware ? i doubt that micomsoft wll do it

before importing xrgb3 i have a few questions:
1) what is the best method to connect my scart rgb switch, i have 1 Joytech AV Control Center

Image

do i need to mod all my cables or only the cable connected between av control center output and xrgb3 input?

consoles connected with rgb cables to inputs -- modded scart cable ? --> av control center output to xrgb3 input --> xrgb3 vga ouput to tv vga input

2) i noticed that there is an issue if you connect a super famicom + scart rgb cable on an LCD tv (to fix this "bug" you need to use svideo cable), do you still have this problem when using xrgb3 ? check here for more detail http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=791160

3) i'm in europe so i will need to use a 110/220 converter, but how much power does it need ? i can buy 45w, 75w, 150w or 1000w.

thanks
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Strider77
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Post by Strider77 »

fudah.... so the xrgb3 offers no real advantage over a XRGB2 or 2+ then with the scanline feature on. it still acn't handle odd sync rates that the XRGB2 can handle for PCBs?
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

so the xrgb3 offers no real advantage over a XRGB2 or 2+ then with the scanline feature on
let me answer this next week when I have both side by side. The XRGB3 in B0 (scaling mode) has advantages for real 480i games. You get considerably more details out of them.
it still acn't handle odd sync rates that the XRGB2 can handle for PCBs?
I don't think so.

@akumajo
(1) just connect your Joytech output to the scart input on the XRGB3. But note that you the scart input on the XRGB has japanese pin layout, so you need a custom cable. If you use a euro scart only once, you'll blow the XRGB's RGB input.

(2) I can't confirm this problem at all. I have a Sony X3500 and my SFC works fine via RGB scart on it. It will also work on the XRGB without any problems. No worries.

(3) the smallest converter will so.
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akumajo
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Post by akumajo »

@akumajo
(1) just connect your Joytech output to the scart input on the XRGB3. But note that you the scart input on the XRGB has japanese pin layout, so you need a custom cable. If you use a euro scart only once, you'll blow the XRGB's RGB input.

(2) I can't confirm this problem at all. I have a Sony X3500 and my SFC works fine via RGB scart on it. It will also work on the XRGB without any problems. No worries.

(3) the smallest converter will so.
1) ok, i will try to make one, or maybe you are selling one? your price is mine...
2) can you tell me which version of super famicom and cable that you are using?
3) ok, thx
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Strider77
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Post by Strider77 »

let me answer this next week when I have both side by side. The XRGB3 in B0 (scaling mode) has advantages for real 480i games. You get considerably more details out of them.
ok, let me know. honestly though the only games I have that are 480i is the PS2. I play all those via the PS3, so unless it outclasses the PS3's handling of 480i. I think it won't sway me.

I have a XRGB2 lined up. I own a 2+ now but would like support for those older PCBs.

right now I use a sony PVM for my tate needs. But my goal is to get a new Sony HD set that's 1080p and LCD. I'll wall mount it with a swivel bracket and have EVERY thing hooked up to it. That way my low res and tate needs will be solved with an all in one TV set.

@akumajo

Also... yeah I have no issues with my super famicom hooked up via RGB either on my HDTV, it's hooked up via an XRGB also.

I can make adapters, I have made one a few times.
pcb_revival
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Post by pcb_revival »

akumajo wrote: it only need an english translation, maybe it's possible to hack the firmware ? i doubt that micomsoft wll do it
The X-RGB 3 is now over two years old and is still supported with new

firmware releases so they should have an optional English language

firmware.

Afterall how many units have be purchased by overseas users.


I am sure Micomsoft could beta test with the right people.
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

Actually a good idea. I'll have a friend email them and propose that we provide the translation for an english language FW version.
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akumajo
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Post by akumajo »

just ordered 1 xrgb3 for my old consoles
expect a lots of captures
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akumajo
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Post by akumajo »

hey fudoh, any update with xrgb3?
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Fudoh
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Post by Fudoh »

I just updated the Deinterlacing article with more data about the XRGB-3. Just let me know if you have anymore questions.

http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/
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akumajo
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Post by akumajo »

thanks for your works

i cant wait to receive mine...

can you tell me if its possible to;
- upscale super nes to 720p with scanline (any lag?)
- upscale wii/ps2 to 720p or more (any lag?)

also, do i need to buy a yuv to d-terminal adapter or its include in packaging ? (i want to connect my yuv switch directly)

if only they could release an english firmware :p
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