XRGB-3

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
real_hagane
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:12 pm

Re: XRGB-3

Post by real_hagane »

I have some issues that I think are not yet covered by this thread so my hope of getting them fixed with my setup are quite low.
But maybe someone has experienced the same problem and/or can provide an idea of how to fix things.

I have the following setup:

-xrgb3_update_setup_v2_31e_110506.exe (B0 + B1 firmware installed)
-EU SNES ---> eBay RGB cable (composite video as sync) --> EU2JAP Scart adapter --> XRGB3 GameIn
-VGA Output to the a Sony 40X3500

I get a stable picture out of this setup in B1 mode. The problem is the output resolution / aspect ratio.
As far as I know the XRGB is supposed to output 640x480 in B1 mode independent of the resolution setting.
Sadly what I get is an output resolution of 848*480. This is at least what my TV shows in the VGA menu. Obviously the aspect ratio is broken that way and my TV does not have options to change aspect ratio in VGA mode.

I tried different resolution settings and most if not all of the other options. None of them changed the issue in B1.

This also happens in B0 mode with resolution set to 640*480.
If I choose higher output resolutions (e.g. 1024x768) the problem does not occur since they are displayed as intended.

Any ideas?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

Two weird things:

a) I had no problems whatsoever using a XRGB-3 in B1 on my X3500 for years.

b) My X3500 had aspect ratio controls for VGA. They should work independently of the resolution. The AR options were VGA doubled (480 doubled to 960 with underscan borders around it), VGA 4:3 fullscreen (480p to 1440x1080) and VGA fullscreen (480p to 1980x1080).

I can't think of any particular reason why your X3500 should be different.
edwinbradford
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:48 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: XRGB-3

Post by edwinbradford »

BuckoA51 wrote:edwinbradford - Try changing the H-SYNC and V-SYNC polarities too, see if that improves your judder/screen warping.
Sorry, I'm a bit late replying, thanks for the suggestion. As you suggested I tried those in several combinations, I can't remember how much if any difference it made but a small amount of warping still remains in B1 mode. For now I'm just sticking with B0 instead.
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Konsolkongen »

real_hagane wrote: Sadly what I get is an output resolution of 848*480. This is at least what my TV shows in the VGA menu. Obviously the aspect ratio is broken that way and my TV does not have options to change aspect ratio in VGA mode.
The XRGB-3 actually outputs 720x480 which most displays sees as 640x480, because that is the VESA standard. Try changing the Horizontal and Vertical sync polarity, or just one of them. My Gefen VGA scaler usually sees the B1 resolution as 720x480, but when I changed the sync polarity it saw it as 640x480 like most TV's. Perhaps the same thing happens on your TV?
real_hagane
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:12 pm

Re: XRGB-3

Post by real_hagane »

Fudoh wrote:Two weird things:

a) I had no problems whatsoever using a XRGB-3 in B1 on my X3500 for years.

b) My X3500 had aspect ratio controls for VGA. They should work independently of the resolution. The AR options were VGA doubled (480 doubled to 960 with underscan borders around it), VGA 4:3 fullscreen (480p to 1440x1080) and VGA fullscreen (480p to 1980x1080).

I can't think of any particular reason why your X3500 should be different.
a) Maybe a difference between the 50'' and 40'' models. Or its just my XRGB being "special".

b) It seems it is not resolution independent. The button for aspect ratio does indeed have a function. But for me its just scaling. There are 3 modes that differ slightly or none in aspect ratio:
Normal, Full1 and Full2

I have uploaded some photos to demonstrate what they look like:

http://gallery.me.com/hagane#100108

Konsolkongen wrote:The XRGB-3 actually outputs 720x480 which most displays sees as 640x480, because that is the VESA standard. Try changing the Horizontal and Vertical sync polarity, or just one of them. My Gefen VGA scaler usually sees the B1 resolution as 720x480, but when I changed the sync polarity it saw it as 640x480 like most TV's. Perhaps the same thing happens on your TV?
I did try all of the different polarity combinations. No reaction whatsoever.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

I see. The AR controls are actually the same as on my old set. It's a recognition problem. If the signal was correctly detected as 640x480, then the AR controls would behave as I described them. If you plan to keep the TV set (which you should, it's nice) and want to use B1 you can either try to use an Extron RGB interface to rework the sync signal. This way the TV might see the signal correctly. Or you use a VGA to HDMI converter. The Extron interfaces are quite cheap (20-30 EUR maybe) and a HDMI converter would run at 50-60 EUR.
real_hagane
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:12 pm

Re: XRGB-3

Post by real_hagane »

Fudoh wrote:...HDMI converter would run at 50-60 EUR.
I'll go with the vga to hdmi converter. Just for the XRGB-B1-usecase: Is there a benefit in buying a Gefen in comparison to a cheap eBay converter?

http://www.technik-und-elektronik.de/ge ... -5856.html
versus
http://cgi.ebay.de/VGA-HDMI-Konverter-1 ... 27bccd0ff0
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Konsolkongen »

If the Gefen VGA to Hdmi scaler works like the Gefen VGA to DVI scaler then it's pretty awesome with the XRGB-3 in B1 mode. Although read about the tearing issue mentioned here:
http://videogameperfection.com/gefen-faq.php

One could hope that the HDMI one doesn't have that problem :)

B1 mode through the Gefen is pixelperfect madness. Check out this picture:
Image

The above is what the XRGB-3's menu's look like on most TV's and the lower one is through a proper adjusted Gefen scaler. Awesome :)
User avatar
SGGG2
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:03 am
Location: East Coast, US

Re: XRGB-3

Post by SGGG2 »

I use a Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler Plus also, and I love it. With the proper settings on the XRGB-3 (Sharpness 7, LPF On) it'll calm the vertical jitter to the point where it might as well be invisible. I don't know how I used B1 without it. Don't hesitate.

I haven't noticed any tearing issues.
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Konsolkongen »

Perhaps something's wrong with Em0ti0n's and mine? You bought yours pretty cheap didn't you? Perhaps I should buy another one, it would be well worth it :)

EDIT: Sometimes it's not tearing but stuttering instead. In a shmup like Hyper Duel for instance that has a perfectly fluent scrolling background. Sometimes the game just stutters like crazy. Re-sync the Gefen and the problem is gone. Very strange...
Last edited by Konsolkongen on Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
SGGG2
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:03 am
Location: East Coast, US

Re: XRGB-3

Post by SGGG2 »

Don't run out and buy another one! It's quite possible I haven't been paying close attention. I do get tearing in B0 connected to my monitor with DVI, but it took me a while to notice it. Unless I'm looking for it, it's just a minor irritation... although, once I see it I can't stand it. :evil:
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Konsolkongen »

Here is a video I took of the tearing problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP0oLkKc ... r_embedded

I'd say it's pretty noticeable :/ I thought for a while it helped if I set it to 720p but it didn't :(

Only helps if I set the scaling to underscan or overscan. But that leaves either the picture too small or cuts off some of the borders :(

Em0ti0n and I have the same TV set. Panasonic S20, but I doubt that's to blame. On all other sources this never happens. Not when running the XRGB-3 through the Optoma or Edge either...
User avatar
SGGG2
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:03 am
Location: East Coast, US

Re: XRGB-3

Post by SGGG2 »

What color is yours? Mine is black and blue. We could have different revisions.
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Konsolkongen »

Mine is gray. Firmware ver. 4.9 if I remember correctly. I believe Em0ti0n's is gray too?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

Is there a benefit in buying a Gefen in comparison to a cheap eBay converter?
what Konsolkongen pointed out. The difference is caused by the Gefen properly seeing 720x480 on the XRGB's output, while your Sony TV sees 640x480. I would NOT worry about this, especially not if you didn't notice problems with this on your TV so far. Your TV's scaling is better than the Panasonic's, so the difference in actual quality (sharpness) isn't quite as big as in the screenshots.

The Gefen is expensive. If you can find a cheap one, get it of course, but I would not spend $300 over another converter.

I had three Gefen units so far and never experienced any tearing with any source (on the Sony X3500).

EDIT: Oh, and the Gefen would enable PAL functionality on your XRGB, while the cheap HDMI converters likely won't accept 50Hz signals.
EDIT2: And your Sony X3500 is not compatible with the Gefen's 1080p output, so you'd use the Gefen with 480p output only anway.
User avatar
SGGG2
Posts: 747
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:03 am
Location: East Coast, US

Re: XRGB-3

Post by SGGG2 »

Fudoh wrote:your Sony X3500 is not compatible with the Gefen's 1080p output, so you'd use the Gefen with 480p output only anway.
Just out of curiosity, how did you determine this?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

The X3500 shows heavy posterization and sparkles all over the place when fed with the Gefen's 1080p signal. Coincidently this not only happens with the Gefen VGA2DVI/HDMI scaler, but also with the Gefen HomeTheater series of scalers.
Alcahest
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Alcahest »

Hi everyone,

I follow this forum since a certain amount of time. Just to thanks everyone for all the advises.
Just received my XRGB-3. I have a little question. I live in a 220v Country. Can i replace XRGB default AC adaptor by this one ?
It cames from a Canon Scanner. It has the same tip has default one.

Image
Sans titre de par Ludovic C., sur Flickr

Polarity seems to be the same.

Image
Sans titre de par Ludovic C., sur Flickr

Thanks,

Alcahest
Last edited by Alcahest on Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
edwinbradford
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:48 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: XRGB-3

Post by edwinbradford »

Alcahest wrote:I live in a 220v Country. Can i replace XRGB default AC adaptor by this one ?
My personal advice is the XRGB-3 is too expensive to risk using a different voltage. I would purchase a transformer (adaptor) that matches the output of the XRGB's supplied one: DC 11V 1.25A according to your photo, you should be able to buy one cheaply. Providing the output matches it doesn't matter if the input is 220v, 240v or 110v.

See what others think but that's what I'd do unless told otherwise.

Edit: I stand corrected please see other replies below.
Last edited by edwinbradford on Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
fagin
Posts: 1654
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:29 pm
Location: UK

Re: XRGB-3

Post by fagin »

Personally I can't see an increase of 1v causing an issue.
freyesm
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: XRGB-3

Post by freyesm »

+/- 1V will do nothing.

About XRGB-3.

It does support RGB input at TTL level, or just analog? I couldn't find this information at all!
User avatar
em0ti0n
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:44 pm
Location: Czech republic

Re: XRGB-3

Post by em0ti0n »

Konsolkongen wrote:Mine is gray. Firmware ver. 4.9 if I remember correctly. I believe Em0ti0n's is gray too?
Mine is black & blue and the firmware version is 4.9 :)
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Konsolkongen »

Ah great then I don't have to try to paint mine ;)
freyesm
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: XRGB-3

Post by freyesm »

Konsolkongen wrote:The above is what the XRGB-3's menu's look like on most TV's and the lower one is through a proper adjusted Gefen scaler. Awesome :)
Strange, my GUI on XRGB-3 is just perfect at 1080p (since my monitor is 1080p).

Btw, another solution is VGA to HDMI:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=8915

Same price.
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Konsolkongen »

Of course, so is mine :) The above is only a problem in B1 mode (scanlines) where the XRGB-3 outputs in 720x480 and most TV's mistakes this for 640x480. Therefore the picture gets squeezed a bit together and the pixels appear uneven.
freyesm
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: XRGB-3

Post by freyesm »

Konsolkongen wrote:Of course, so is mine :) The above is only a problem in B1 mode (scanlines) where the XRGB-3 outputs in 720x480 and most TV's mistakes this for 640x480. Therefore the picture gets squeezed a bit together and the pixels appear uneven.
I see.
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Konsolkongen »

User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Fudoh »

User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: XRGB-3

Post by Konsolkongen »

Arh why do you keep making new topics :D I only visit for the 3-4 topics I have been bookmarking for years :p
kel
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:11 pm

Re: XRGB-3

Post by kel »

I think I have blown something on the "Game in" terminal on my XRGB3. For some reason I don't get blue any more when displaying RGB and component through it. I think it may of been from when I plugged in a badly RGB modded N64 which didn't work with the XRGB3 by the way but worked ok on the Edge though.

Has anyone had this problem before or know what could be wrong with it?
Post Reply