Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern....UPDATE...Success!

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deezdrama
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Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern....UPDATE...Success!

Post by deezdrama »

So recently scored 9 pvm/bvms .... Included in the lot were some that needed work. This 1341 being one of them.
It was serviced in 07 with a new tube and input board. The seller thought it worked fine but when we plugged in to test the screen was vertically squished.
Not a full blown vertical collapse but just squished so figured it needed recap and got a deal on it.

This is my first time plugging it in since ive got it home weeks ago, 240p test suite grid pattern shows wavy lines. They are NOT moving ....just still snake shaped lines lol.
Actual gameplay looks fine though and the screen is not squished like it was at sellers place.

I can recap and swap components no problems, I just did full recap and yoke adjustment on a 27" sony fs120 but learned a lesson that replacing 120 caps is not fun, especially when not needed.
So I just want to replace likely culprit caps in power and deflection areas.
I have an ESR meter but have not opened this one up yet.

Just wondering if anyone seen this before and what the likely culprit is....power filter caps? Deflection caps? Something else?

https://ibb.co/J3DYB56
https://ibb.co/zQFxmQJ
https://ibb.co/tL1rN22
Last edited by deezdrama on Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by maxtherabbit »

that's indicative of poor HV regulation, on many consumer sets that would be considered "normal" but probably not for the PVM
MKL
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by MKL »

C535 is used to fix this issue so you should replace it. You can remove it from a set (not necessarily the same) that doesn't have the issue for confirmation.
tongshadow
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by tongshadow »

deezdrama wrote:I can recap and swap components no problems, I just did full recap and yoke adjustment on a 27" sony fs120 but learned a lesson that replacing 120 caps is not fun, especially when not needed.
So I just want to replace likely culprit caps in power and deflection areas.
I have an ESR meter but have not opened this one up yet.
Narrow your search to capacitors close to heat sources and in tight spots, specially around the horizontal deflection section. Investigate the vertical issue as well, if it works fine only sometimes, then it's a 90% chance that's a bad capacitor.
Last edited by tongshadow on Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
deezdrama
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by deezdrama »

Thanks guys, I will be ordering caps soon.
deezdrama
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by deezdrama »

MKL wrote:C535 is used to fix this issue so you should replace it. You can remove it from a set (not necessarily the same) that doesn't have the issue for confirmation.
I swapped in the main chassis board from another working 1341 with a dim tube. Still has the same issue so looks like it wasnt c535. Im going to try swapping power boards tomorrow.
MKL
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by MKL »

deezdrama wrote:
MKL wrote:C535 is used to fix this issue so you should replace it. You can remove it from a set (not necessarily the same) that doesn't have the issue for confirmation.
I swapped in the main chassis board from another working 1341 with a dim tube. Still has the same issue so looks like it wasnt c535. Im going to try swapping power boards tomorrow.
If you run the monitor that doesn't have the issue without C535, how's the grid?
deezdrama
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by deezdrama »

MKL wrote:
deezdrama wrote:
MKL wrote:C535 is used to fix this issue so you should replace it. You can remove it from a set (not necessarily the same) that doesn't have the issue for confirmation.
I swapped in the main chassis board from another working 1341 with a dim tube. Still has the same issue so looks like it wasnt c535. Im going to try swapping power boards tomorrow.
If you run the monitor that doesn't have the issue without C535, how's the grid?
You mean remove that capacitor and see if it shows the same artifact?


Sofar I swapped in a working chassis board...same issue

Then swapped power board.... Same issue

Then swapped neckboard... Same issue

Then swapped the input board.... Same issue.


Only thing left to swap is the yoke or tube itself, im stumped.

I noticed 2 of my 1341s have different tube models. I wonder if that could be an artifact of a tube thats not 100% compatible.

One of my dim tube 1341s has an older looking a34jhs12x

This 1341 with the weird waviness in grid pattern has a newer looking m34jnq15x tube that was replaced in 2007,
I found a new one of these tubes for sale that I wanted to buy to fix one of these dim tube 1341s I have but now wondering if this model tube could be an issue.
tongshadow
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by tongshadow »

Could be an incompatible tube/yoke as it was only used in other models:
https://crtdatabase.com/crts/sony/sony-cpd-1303
deezdrama
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by deezdrama »

tongshadow wrote:Could be an incompatible tube/yoke as it was only used in other models:
https://crtdatabase.com/crts/sony/sony-cpd-1303
Very interesting!

The article states the A34JHS10x is a 450tvl tube so I assume the A34JHS12x thats in my pvm-1341 with a shot dim tube is also 450tvl which is around what the pvm-1341 is stated to have.


So the pvm-1341 i have that had tube replaced in 2007 according to sticker on the back has the M34jnq15x which is a 600tvl tube. It works and super bright but like I mentioned has a weird ghosting and waviness on white text and lines if I have the contrast up to middle or higher.
I wonder if this is just an artifact of using a higher tvl tube in a pvm it wasnt designed for?
I also now wonder what happens when you use a high tvl tube in a pvm not designed for it. Will you actually get 600tvl or just weird artifacts like im getting.
If i keep contrast below midway it looks great.... Just have to keep contrast a touch lower than i like.

Anyway... I can get another one of these 600tvl tubes for a pretty decent price new in box old stock.
It could give life to one of the 2 dim tube pvm1341s i have but may have the same weird artifacts.
tongshadow
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by tongshadow »

You can have basically 3 scenarios when swapping tubes:
1- 100% compatible, both tube and yoke are a match for the chassis even if the tube has a different line count. The 8" PVMs only have 2 tubes: 250TVL and 450TVL, and they're compatible on every model. You can turn a measly 250TVL PVM-8041Q into a PVM-8044Q by simply putting the 450TVL in it.
2- Semi-compatible, can work but needs adaptations. This usually happens when the neckboard's CRT socket perfectly matches the tube's pins but due to voltage/calibrations differences the picture isnt perfect. This seems to be your case.
3- Incompatible, the neckboard's socket and tube's dont even line up.

And just for a quick reference here's what the tube's part number code means:
1st letter - Monitor type (A, M, S)
1st set of numbers - Size in centimeters
1st set of three letters - Tube family
2nd set of numbers - Tube family
2nd letter - Phosphor type
More info here:
https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/CRT_designation_systems

If you're up to it, you can try swapping yokes between the 450tvl tube and the 600tvl one because it seems to me that it's a deflection problem since the boards are all good apparently.
deezdrama
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by deezdrama »

tongshadow wrote:You can have basically 3 scenarios when swapping tubes:
1- 100% compatible, both tube and yoke are a match for the chassis even if the tube has a different line count. The 8" PVMs only have 2 tubes: 250TVL and 450TVL, and they're compatible on every model. You can turn a measly 250TVL PVM-8041Q into a PVM-8044Q by simply putting the 450TVL in it.
2- Semi-compatible, can work but needs adaptations. This usually happens when the neckboard's CRT socket perfectly matches the tube's pins but due to voltage/calibrations differences the picture isnt perfect. This seems to be your case.
3- Incompatible, the neckboard's socket and tube's dont even line up.

And just for a quick reference here's what the tube's part number code means:
1st letter - Monitor type (A, M, S)
1st set of numbers - Size in centimeters
1st set of three letters - Tube family
2nd set of numbers - Tube family
2nd letter - Phosphor type
More info here:
https://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/CRT_designation_systems

If you're up to it, you can try swapping yokes between the 450tvl tube and the 600tvl one because it seems to me that it's a deflection problem since the boards are all good apparently.
Thanks for the link and info! Google doesnt seem to bring up anything when I search for this stuff. Ill have to try some different search engines and maybe the waybackmachine lol.

All the pvm-1341's I have use the same yokes and did try swapping one already... Nothing changed. So Ive tried swapping every single board and yoke with no changes which is what made me figure it had to be something with this tube.

I bet in 2007 when the station put in a new tube they must of had the 600tvl one on hand or got it cheaper and figured it would work decent enough for a while untill they changed to lcd pvm's.
It doesnt look bad in games it just bugs me in 240p test suite so ill have to live with it I guess.

I need to get a cap list together and start recapping these boards since im sure they could all benefit from it.

Maybe ill just do all the deflection area caps for now just to make sure the 2 chassis boards I tried with this tube didnt have same bad cap on both which would be highly unlikely but possible I guess.

I still need to decide if I should grab another one of these tubes or pass and keep eye out for a 100% compatible tube.

I appreciate the help!
deezdrama
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern

Post by deezdrama »

Update....
I decided to do full deflection half of board recap and full power supply recap and glad I did!
Testing the caps about half of them were completely shot! Some looked fine but were glued to board with electrolytic leakage.
Image is rock solid now, nomore weird squiggles or ghoasting/smearing on high contrast objects.

Also didnt see any indication of components that needed swapped or upgraded for the 600tvl tube to work in this 1341

These are pics after first powering on, geometry hasnt been set yet.
Image
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tongshadow
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern....UPDATE...Success!

Post by tongshadow »

Both boards had bad caps then? You're very (un)lucky :mrgreen:
deezdrama
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern....UPDATE...Success!

Post by deezdrama »

tongshadow wrote:Both boards had bad caps then? You're very (un)lucky :mrgreen:
The power board was good but had caps with esr on the high side so just decided to recap it since it was only 12 caps but yeah, I guess both chassis boards had bad caps in deflection circuit because even when I swapped in chassis from another 1341 it still had issues.
Neck boards only have a single small cap and were still good.

Id say over half of the deflection caps were loooong gone, esr over 40 or just error message on meter, some of them leaked so long ago it was like dried epoxy I had to scrape off the board.
The caps near heatsinks Im sure been toast for a decade or highly out of spec. Since these 40 series pvm's are pushing 30 yrs old I guess its safe to assume they all need recapped and suffer to varying degrees of cap failure or being severely out of spec.

I noticed my 1344q I recently calibrated has wonky geometry again so Im going to order some more kits and just do all of them soon/eventually lol

I have three 1341's and getting another when I make the trip to my PVM supplier .... 2 have dim tubes, I almost want to recap them just to see if theres any affect on the dimness... If not I would have good units ready for tubes when/if I find them

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Josh128
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern....UPDATE...Success!

Post by Josh128 »

Nice fix!
deezdrama
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern....UPDATE...Success!

Post by deezdrama »

Josh128 wrote:Nice fix!
Thanks!



Finally edited a video on the repair.



https://youtu.be/KVRAe3-uIdU
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buttersoft
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Re: Sony PVM-1341 Wavy grid pattern....UPDATE...Success!

Post by buttersoft »

Nice vid, and glad to hear you sorted the issue :)
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