PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collections

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Rulumi
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by Rulumi »

magus90 wrote: In 720p on the PSTV, the 5x wouldn't let me choose any other output but 720p. I don't know why. So that mode is useless for me.
In 1080i on the PSTV, going into the 5x, i was getting image issues. Essentially the top 5% of the image there was a horizontal line across and it was repeating the lower 5% of the image, but on the top as well. No idea why. It would pop in every few seconds and go away, and repeat. Otherwise it looked nice and the input lag was manageable.
I think what's happening is that the PS TV is taking on that the EDID that's receiving as the display/device it's connected to not being able to do this resolutions and hence it doesn't let you choose them.

You can try connecting via HDMI to another display or device that does this fine for the console (you may need to restart the console for the other resolution options to be enabled again) and after changing it, disconnect it and connect it back to the adapter and 5x, the PS TV should keep in with the resolution it was set with one before.
Although if the adapter or 5x isn't compatible with the resolution it could cause a garbled image or just not show it.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by Konsolkongen »

Rulumi wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:Why is the PSTV limited to 1080i anyway? Would that be a bandwidth limitation, or they they cheap out and used an ancient HDMI chipset?
The MIPI DSI to HDMI chip that devkits and the PSTV use seems to only be able to do 1920x1080 at 60Hz on interlaced.

The developer of Sharpscale got 1080p30Hz and custom resolutions working the past year, but they haven't release these yet.
Interesting. The LG OLEDs are pretty forgiving when it comes to weird output resolutions so I wonder what a native 544p would look like on those, if it would produce a sharper image than 720p zoomed to full screen.

I wonder if 816p60 (3x the PSP's 272px) could work in Adrenaline? It would look horrible for everything native Vita of course :lol:
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by magus90 »

Rulumi wrote:
magus90 wrote: In 720p on the PSTV, the 5x wouldn't let me choose any other output but 720p. I don't know why. So that mode is useless for me.
In 1080i on the PSTV, going into the 5x, i was getting image issues. Essentially the top 5% of the image there was a horizontal line across and it was repeating the lower 5% of the image, but on the top as well. No idea why. It would pop in every few seconds and go away, and repeat. Otherwise it looked nice and the input lag was manageable.
I think what's happening is that the PS TV is taking on that the EDID that's receiving as the display/device it's connected to not being able to do this resolutions and hence it doesn't let you choose them.

You can try connecting via HDMI to another display or device that does this fine for the console (you may need to restart the console for the other resolution options to be enabled again) and after changing it, disconnect it and connect it back to the adapter and 5x, the PS TV should keep in with the resolution it was set with one before.
Although if the adapter or 5x isn't compatible with the resolution it could cause a garbled image or just not show it.
Interesting enough, it went away in 1080i. I put frame lock on and that seemed to fix it. Other than that, i didn't change anything else. So no idea on that one.

At 1080i>5x, it puts out a really nice full screen 1080p image. The lag seems to be more than reasonable for my needs, so i may just stick with this. PSP isn't a huge priority for me, but i was hoping to finally play the library. Now i have a psp go, dock, and component cables to offload though, unless when i test them i like them better than the PSTV. Thanks for the help.
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BazookaBen
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by BazookaBen »

Konsolkongen wrote: I wonder if 816p60 (3x the PSP's 272px) could work in Adrenaline? It would look horrible for everything native Vita of course :lol:
IIRC, Sharpscale has to use the same pixel clock as the resolution it replaces. So 816p would be too high of a pixel clock, unless you ran it at 2x horizontal scale, with extra blanking pixels to get it up the same clock as 720p or 1080i
RebeL9
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by RebeL9 »

I found an old thread here that mentions that connecting a PSP Dev Kit through a Extron VCS allows you to zoom in on the image. Have anyone tried this with a PS TV for instance? How good is the zoom effect?
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by RebeL9 »

I’ve been experimenting with the video quality of the Vita TV running PSP games. The goal was to get the sharpest possible image when running on a Bvm D24 monitor. The tools I used was Sharpscale and the settings in Adrenaline. Photos taken on an Iphone 13 Pro.

Settings on PS TV: 1080i.
Adrenaline settings: Sharp bilinear without scanlines
Screen Scale X: 2.000
Screen Scale Y: 2.000
Sharpscale settings: see image.

Image
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Rulumi
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by Rulumi »

Tweaking a bit more with the PSP Go component out again, I guess it's not too bad, if still just fine, not as clean as the PS (Vita) TV being all digital of course.
Spoiler
Image

Image

Image

Image
RebeL9
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by RebeL9 »

Looks pretty good. How much borders do you get around the image with the PSP go dock?
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Rulumi
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by Rulumi »

The image from the PSP on PSP games is always going to be the original PSP resolution into the resolution window that the console it's outputting (720x480 window on the retail component and 640x480 on the devkits VGA).

It's up to ones device, equipment and recording in how to treat the borders. It is possible to output full screen with plugins as I said in a message before on this thread, but apart from the scaling issues from so, it also kills the performance of the games.
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by DiegoPonga »

I'm a bit confused...

So... Does playing PSP games on PSTV add any lag? Or is it just a problem of the homebrew app OP's using?
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by RebeL9 »

DiegoPonga wrote:I'm a bit confused...

So... Does playing PSP games on PSTV add any lag? Or is it just a problem of the homebrew app OP's using?
I don’t know since I haven’t downloaded any PSP games on Vita TV. I can’t compare.
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by Steven »

I honestly think the Vita TV just has inherent lag for some reason, as Vita games have noticeably more lag there than they do on my Vita. I'm highly insensitive to input lag and even I noticed it when switching from my Vita to Vita TV and then back to Vita.
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by bobrocks95 »

Steven wrote:I honestly think the Vita TV just has inherent lag for some reason, as Vita games have noticeably more lag there than they do on my Vita. I'm highly insensitive to input lag and even I noticed it when switching from my Vita to Vita TV and then back to Vita.
Do you know your display's input lag measurements though?
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by Steven »

bobrocks95 wrote:
Steven wrote:I honestly think the Vita TV just has inherent lag for some reason, as Vita games have noticeably more lag there than they do on my Vita. I'm highly insensitive to input lag and even I noticed it when switching from my Vita to Vita TV and then back to Vita.
Do you know your display's input lag measurements though?
8.6ms
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by RebeL9 »

Are there no proper lag tests made on the Vita TV? Like the ones Bob does on his channel.
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by RebeL9 »

Anyone here using Sharpscale on Vita TV?
What is your experience regardng the best output? Many games on Vita were never produced to output Vitas maximum resolution of 960x544p. By using the app VitaGrafix you can increase the resolution in a number of games (many of the top games such as Killzone, Wipeout, Ridge Racer, Uncharted etc).
However im curious to know if you get best result by using the Interlace option in sharpscale and set Vita TV to 1080i or if you set Vita TV to output 720p?
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by bobrocks95 »

Don't see the point in using 1080i when you have sharpscale. The initial thought was maybe 1080i natively scales better with a 2x zoom and 4/8 cropped pixels but I don't know that anyone thought it looked better in 1080i stock. With sharpscale, set it to 720p, get your 544p window inside of it, then zoom with your TV or external scaler and I found it looked better than the double scaling pass from native 720p on the two TVs I tried (a 4K and a 1080p panel).
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Rulumi
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by Rulumi »

RebeL9 wrote:Are there no proper lag tests made on the Vita TV? Like the ones Bob does on his channel.
I don't think there's a proper test of that, albeit a proper full test on it could be a bit involved I guess.
In the Vita TV itself test out both official supported controllers wired over USB and wirelessly, as well as testing for Vita and PSP separately, accounting for the tested game possible native input delay. Also for PSP probably the official "PSPEMU" as well, because Adrenaline adds input delay.

And then compare it to both a 1000 model and a 2000 model (I doubt there'll be much difference between them, but the LCD driver is different so it may as well be worth to). The official DS3/4 controller driver that the TV models use can be used on the handheld models with homebrew so I guess that could be tested too... One technically can connect the controllers over USB when using that driver on them as well if enabling the accesory port, but it would be a bit of a hurdle to connect them like that, specially on the 1000 model.

Devkits have HDMI output as well, but the OLED and HDMI output work in mostly the same way as a 1000 model screen and the Vita TV output works respectively, so there's probably not much different on that.
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by jd213 »

Rulumi wrote: In the Vita TV itself test out both official supported controllers wired over USB and wirelessly, as well as testing for Vita and PSP separately, accounting for the tested game possible native input delay.
I believe the USB port on a Vita TV is only used for charging or pairing a controller unless you use something like a CronusMax, I don't think there's an official way to use wired controllers. Maybe homebrew? Didn't see anything in a quick search.
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by bobrocks95 »

Don't know if the PS3 was the same way, but for PS4 wired controllers have more lag anyways, supposedly due to the USB polling rate being relatively low.
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by RebeL9 »

Yeah it’s kind of odd that the wired DualShock adds more input lag than wireless ones.
Which isn’t an issue since most people probably use a wireless one.
Speaking of controllers. Yesterday a modder released the Vixen X-input enabler.
Which adds support for numerous controllers for Vita/Vita TV. https://github.com/isage/vixen
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by Rulumi »

Official DS3 and DS4 can work fine wired, it's even a requirement to do so in safe mode, since Bluetooth it's not enabled in safe mode. I think the problem with DS4 controllers is that older ones don't quite support an USB wired connection in the same way? I forgot about the whole "v1" and "v2" DS4 thing.

And the DS3 is for sure different that the DS4, not sure if better or worse though. There's also a homebrew plugin to use the DualSense in the same manner as the official DS4 driver works, but I haven't tested it personally as I don't have a DualSense.
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by RebeL9 »

I have a Dual Sense. I’m actually going to try it out today!
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by Konsolkongen »

Some people claim that if you use Adrenaline Bubble Manager to launch PSP games it will reduce lag. I've tried this and I found that it made little to no difference, nor would I expect it to anyway :)

I would recommend that you try Chovy-Sign instead which basically plays the games as if you bought them of the PSN store. This is noticeably less laggy that Adrenaline and I find that it looks just as good when used with SharpScale.

The software is a pain to use, especially when running in a slow VM, and I could not get beta 3 to work. It takes a while to convert each game but they have all worked out fine so far. I used the Ape Quest demo from the EU PSN store to do this.

The only problem I have with this solution is that I can't fint a way to overclock the games. It's not the biggest issue but a game like OutRun does not run very well at the stock frequency - a bump to 333MHz makes a huge difference. I have PSVShellPlus installed but it doesn't make a difference to PSP titles. If anyone knows of a way that would be much appreciated.
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Rulumi
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by Rulumi »

PSVShellPlus and all of that won't work with PSP games, for PSP games the PSP hardware of the system needs to be set to the corresponding rates, not the normal Vita ARM and GPU.

I know ARK-4 has options for the clock speed, but I don't remember if they take effect on the Vita right now or not.
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by Konsolkongen »

I haven't tried ARK, is that an entirely different PSP emulator solution like Adrenaline or does it just add features to the original Sony emulator? Looking at the github it sounds like it's the latter, but I do find the whole softmodding scene a bit confusing :)
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by RebeL9 »

I find it unbelievable that the latency issue with Adrenaline haven’t gained more attention!
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by bobrocks95 »

RebeL9 wrote:I find it unbelievable that the latency issue with Adrenaline haven’t gained more attention!
If someone could give actual lag measurements I think it could potentially be actually addressed by the developer, if Adrenaline ends up as actually worse than other PSP methods. Felt the same to me when I tried it vs ARK, but ARK looks like it's had some updates since then. If someone can give a clear target to a developer, "Adrenaline is this many milliseconds worse", then it's actionable y'know? "It feels worse" is hard for anyone to look at.
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by RebeL9 »

bobrocks95 wrote:
RebeL9 wrote:I find it unbelievable that the latency issue with Adrenaline haven’t gained more attention!
If someone could give actual lag measurements I think it could potentially be actually addressed by the developer, if Adrenaline ends up as actually worse than other PSP methods. Felt the same to me when I tried it vs ARK, but ARK looks like it's had some updates since then. If someone can give a clear target to a developer, "Adrenaline is this many milliseconds worse", then it's actionable y'know? "It feels worse" is hard for anyone to look at.
How difficult was it to install ARK?
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Re: PSTV input lag in PSP games Gradius & Salamander Collect

Post by bobrocks95 »

Too long ago for me to remember really. Couldn't have been any harder than adrenaline. Looks like there's an easy way to set up a bubble for it now too (previously I had to download a PSP demo from PSN I believe) - https://github.com/theheroGAC/ArkFast/
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