What's my best option for playing PC engine cd games?

[Jonesyy]

Hi,
I'm a big fan of the pc engine, I currently have an rgb modded core grafx 2 linked up to a crt with horri fighting stick and an everdrive flash cart.
However I'm now wanting to play some of the cd based games, and there seems to be a few options for doing this:
1) Sell my core grafx and buy a Duo/r/rx
2) Keep my core grafx and buy an interface unit plus cd rom
3) Keep my core grafx and buy one of those addon units for the expansion bay that will play (emulate?) cd games via fpga. I think its called the super hd system pro from terraonion or something like that.
4) I don't know much about them, but there is something called a miSTer which I think is similar to a pi but is based on fpga which people seem to speak highly of.

My needs would be as follows:
Must be able to be played on a crt, preferably via rgb scart
I wouldn't be willing to pay £100+ for a single game on a regular basis, so if I had to use physical media, it would mostly be the better made repro's. Sorry if that is unpopular but I just want to be transparent.

Would be nice if people could offer their opinion on the options available as to what might suit me the best.
Thanks!

[Einzelherz]

WiiMednafen is my preference.

edit: I'm 99% sure that's what I used. It's been a while.

[NoAffinity]

Ssds3 or shds3. The ssds3 will need the fu-rgb and audio mod for the ssds3, not sure if the shds3 solved the a/v issues (I havent been following closely). I love my ssds3, but also bought a duo-r because I also like authenticity.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Gunstar]

I'd say mister, it has accurate colours over RGB like the SHDS3 Pro but the value proposition is amazing factoring in all the other systems and ODE costs.

Both my TurboDuos have busted CD drives so I'm prone to the lazy option lol

There was an S-Video mod in the works by Voultar which, iirc, would produce correct colours (might have imagined that) so that could be a good option if you're wanting to go with real hardware but it might also be a dead project/long wait.

[SavagePencil]

For the cost of getting your existing hardware CD ready, you can move to the MiSTer. It'll get you everything and more, as noted above, and you won't be dealing with finicky drives.

[fernan1234]

I'd say mister, it has accurate colours over RGB like the SHDS3 Pro but the value proposition is amazing factoring in all the other systems and ODE costs.

This 100%. I don't say this about any other original HW system, except for the case of the PCE and its MiSTer core.

It is an objectively better gameplay experience (i.e. not taking subjective stuff like the feeling of using original HW, popping in an actual CD, etc., into account) in every way over original hardware, without any single downside. Use one of those new USB PC Engine controllers and soon enough you'll forget it's not an actual PCE console that has been polished to perfection.

[bobrocks95]

Both my TurboDuos have busted CD drives so I'm prone to the lazy option lol

For my PC Engine Duo-R at least, I was able to get a new off-the-shelf drive lens that worked great and was very easy to swap out.

That said, if you aren't an original hardware purist (I like putting in CDs because I have a peanut for a brain), there's Mister as people have said, or another sort of middle approach if you have/want to collect games would be the Analogue Duo (uses original games, still cheaper than getting a Duo-R).

[Jonesyy]

Thanks for all the advice

If I went the mister route, can anyone advise me what exactly I need to be buying? From the very little I have heard, I’ll need the actual board, plus various other ram and daughter boards etc depending on what cores I want to use?
I would rather spend a bit more and get a better setup from the start to be honest.
Anyone know a good uk supplier where I can get everything needed?
I have a hori rap joystick for switch and pc so I’m guessing that would work fine.
Do they output rgb as standard?
I’ll have a good read up on everything later, at work on phone at the moment
Cheers

[Josh128]

If you want to keep your real hardware, SSDS3.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

For Jonesyy,

I've got a NEC PCE Core Grafx II console with an RGB modded NEC Super CD-Rom2 Interface Unit (this saves you the hassle of having to get the "briefcase" CD-Rom2 Interface Unit setup with it's larger & bulky real estate, space-wise). If I want to play the slick PCE Arcade CD-Rom2 based titles such as Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire on it, it's all good with a required/essential NEC Arcade Card Duo cart setup (with it's beefy 16 megabits of on-board RAM). The average price for an RGB modded Super CD-Rom2 Interface Unit is about $450.00 & up on eBay.

If you like ability to play with your CG-II console on the go, pick up a Columbus Circle produced "Portable LCD Monitor" as it powers up both the LCD monitor & console via micro usb port @ 5v 1 amp with a portable power bank setup. Plus, it already color matches with a CG-II console's color scheme from the get-go...how cool is that? And lastly, it has HDMI output as well. Basically, it's a fine alternative to the rare PCE LT handheld setup that goes for a pretty penny nowadays.

Sure, I own a TTI Turbo Duo & an NEC PC Engine Duo-RX (both with working CD drives -- knock on wood) as well. It's well worth paying the extra $$$ to be able to play with original PCE hardware these days, right? Accept no substitutes.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Guspaz]

https://misterfpga.co.uk/

The most popular supplier in the US is MisterAddons, and looking at what they include in their bundle might be informative:

https://misteraddons.com/products/mister-bundles

Of those, I think only the ADC is really completely optional if you want to maintain broad compatibility, because AFAIK it's only useful for loading games of casette tapes for classic computers. You can do without the case, of course, just use some acrylic instead.

[fernan1234]

Sure, I own a TTI Turbo Duo & an NEC PC Engine Duo-RX (both with working CD drives -- knock on wood) as well. It's well worth paying the extra $$$ to be able to play with original PCE hardware these days, right? Accept no substitutes.

If I HAD to use original hardware for PC Engine CD (and thank God I don't have to), the only acceptable option would be a Duo for the better reliability/maintainability (compared to the other CD drive units) and the original colors via composite (RGB mod is useless as it gives wrong raw RGB colors).

With the exception of the recent SSDS3 Pro there is no way on original HW to play PCE/CD games in RGB-level quality with correct colors, and the SSDS3 Pro is actually a worse compromise because you can get RGB-clarity but with correct color palette, but the CD emulation will not be accurate, and it cannot work with original CD units obviously. This is why original hardware is doomed to be one kind of compromise or the other, choose your poison. Whereas with the MiSTer core you can have the best of all worlds plus more, with no downsides.

Turns out it's also possible to be a PC Engine Fan, love its library to death, and still see the advantage of a strictly superior substitute

[bobrocks95]

Sure, I own a TTI Turbo Duo & an NEC PC Engine Duo-RX (both with working CD drives -- knock on wood) as well. It's well worth paying the extra $$$ to be able to play with original PCE hardware these days, right? Accept no substitutes.

If I HAD to use original hardware for PC Engine CD (and thank God I don't have to), the only acceptable option would be a Duo for the better reliability/maintainability (compared to the other CD drive units) and the original colors via composite (RGB mod is useless as it gives wrong raw RGB colors).

With the exception of the recent SSDS3 Pro there is no way on original HW to play PCE/CD games in RGB-level quality with correct colors, and the SSDS3 Pro is actually a worse compromise because you can get RGB-clarity but with correct color palette, but the CD emulation will not be accurate, and it cannot work with original CD units obviously. This is why original hardware is doomed to be one kind of compromise or the other, choose your poison. Whereas with the MiSTer core you can have the best of all worlds plus more, with no downsides.

Turns out it's also possible to be a PC Engine Fan, love its library to death, and still see the advantage of a strictly superior substitute

Where do I put my HuCards into the Mister though?

[fernan1234]

Where do I put my HuCards into the Mister though?

Dump them and load the ROMs This topic is about CD games though.

But really don't want to antagonize original hardware purists, I'm just putting myself in the shoes of someone who today is just wanting to get into the PCE CD library. If that were me, I'd be thankful to be steered away from the hassle, headache, and high cost of original hardware, when a superior alternative is available.

[bobrocks95]

Where do I put my HuCards into the Mister though?

Dump them and load the ROMs This topic is about CD games though.

But really don't want to antagonize original hardware purists, I'm just putting myself in the shoes of someone who today is just wanting to get into the PCE CD library. If that were me, I'd be thankful to be steered away from the hassle, headache, and high cost of original hardware, when a superior alternative is available.

I definitely agree it's some of the highest sticker shock for a reasonably popular console out there. Unless you're like a US Saturn collector. The price of the stock hardware alone far outweighs any other home consoles I have, even significantly more than my CMVS cost me, and I bought the Duo-R while I was in Osaka even. On the Analogue front it's the first console they've offered where I feel like it's a good investment on the hardware side.

[NoAffinity]

I dont think we've seen a budget mentioned but honestly I think original hardware is at least a cost competitive route. Duo-r's can be had from Japan for around the $200 range... what I bought mine for a couple months ago. Yes you will probably have to buy at least one accessory or another, it wont come with everything needed at $200. But frankly I was glad to not be taking a 25 year old power supply off someone else's hands, rather buying a brand new triad. And of course, most folks will want to do a cap kit. And if you're like me, you just go the whole way with a rgb mod as well.

So, it'll end up being probably $250 range to be fully running.

And as mentioned, there are still replacement lasers readily available for the duo-r/rx.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[neorichieb1971]

I don't own a PC engine, but will just buy the Analogue version.

https://www.analogue.co/duo

It looks nice, its brand new, HDMI, same as all the other Analogue products. For $199 you can't go wrong with it.

Its not out yet, but i'd rather wait for this than go down any other route.

Knowing my luck it will sell out before I sniff it.

[matt]

I've gone through most of the PC Engine variants over the years. Started with a TG16 back in the '90s which got me hooked, and managed to pick up a couple of Core Grafx units, a white PCE, a PC Engine GT, and even a Supergrafx from pawn shops & thift stores. The late '90s was a great time for finding this stuff because my city had a lot of Hong Kong immigrants who left before it reverted to Chinese control. At some point I traded in one of my TG16s for a brand new Duo (you could still do that). I still have one Coregrafx, my Supergrafx, and the Duo.

When it still worked, the Duo was my platform of choice, and the others mostly collected dust. I modded it for RGB and it could play everything except Supergrafx games. It wasn't very good at reading CDRs, but I had original copies of pretty much everything I wanted to play. Sadly, most of the capacitors exploded recently and I haven't had time to fix it yet.

So, being tired of CD-based consoles breaking all the time, I got an SSDS3. It's pretty good. Plays all the CD games I care about just fine, and the video and sound are great. The UI is pretty clunky, although it's improved with the most recent version. Also, attached to a PCE or Core Grafx, it's really compact and saves a lot of space compared with a Duo. If you really want to keep using your original system, I'd recommend it. IMO the newer SHDS3 is overkill and it sounds like it has some bugs.

Having said all that, I ended up getting a MiSTer (mostly for the arcade cores), and found that the PCE emulation is so good that it's now my favorite way to play it. Everything works, and the video output is better than a real console. It has the correct color pallete, RGB, YPbPr, VGA, HDMI, you name it! Supergrafx games work without having to use a real SGX machine, and the whole MiSTer unit is smaller than the PCE itself. The open source nature of the core (and the work ethic of the authors involved) means that it's already more accurate in some ways than the SSDS3 and is likely to always improve. I'm sold on this thing, and if I'd known better I wouldn't have bothered with the SSDS3.

[Gunstar]

For my PC Engine Duo-R at least, I was able to get a new off-the-shelf drive lens that worked great and was very easy to swap out.

Thanks for that tip, I'll have to look into seeing what's available.

[kitty666cats]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002994017650.html

Here's another neat premade MiSTER that has the option of S-Video and Composite out, using the Sega Saturn 10-pin miniDIN. Or a version with a VGA connector (unsure if the VGA is wired a special way that enables VGA to composite/svid cables... both versions do have the dipswitches).

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Where's a good website that sells the Jamma conversion pcb for a MISTer setup (that's currently in stock)? It'd be ace to run such a MISTer setup with a candy cab indeed. Back to the OP's topic at hand.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[kitty666cats]

Where's a good website that sells the Jamma conversion pcb for a MISTer setup (that's currently in stock)? It'd be ace to run such a MISTer setup with a candy cab indeed. Back to the OP's topic at hand.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

If you scroll to the bottom of the page in the link on my above post, I had noticed some (maybe that is where you got the idea heh)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003268475291.html

[Restart_Point]

The ssds3 will need the fu-rgb and audio mod for the ssds3

I was under the impression that the currently available (third) revision SSDS3 does not need any mods as they have all been implemented Maybe there's some other issues you're referring that I dont't know about but I have no issues with mine.

Options I have experience of owning: Get a MiSTer, which can output analogue RGB and HDMI simultaneously to two screens (amazing for capture / streaming), or the SSDS3 if you are happy with just analogue rgb output, or the SHDS3 if you want HDMI and to play the 5 SuperGrafx exclusives.

[Hoagtech]

I would say Mister in theory but I setup my Mister and have been having compatability issues with my Genesis Core. Strange studdering sprites and Sonic 3 running choppy despite changing the region to the US on a “world rom”

Also when I used my disk imager to flash the img onto the sd, it made my SD card turn into 2 different drive letters and asks me to format for five seconds until another drive letter pops up. It turned my brand new 256gb Sandisk into a 16 gb Mister directory and won’t let me reformat..

Then the controller errored on me and I had to reset the Mister to get my retrobit to be recognized by the usb..

I just got this running today so I’m not letting a lack of proper setup ruin it for me but it sure is pissing me off day 1.

I love my duo and Rondo but am hopeful for a proper Mister experience..

[daty2k1]

This thread got me thinking. In theory, would it be possible to design an RGB mod that would take into consideration what was discovered about the composite colors ?

[SamIAm MkII]

This thread got me thinking. In theory, would it be possible to design an RGB mod that would take into consideration what was discovered about the composite colors ?

We spent a long time in the 240p test suite discord channel talking about this. Basically, you're not going to be able to do it accurately for all colors with something simple like a small resistor network. Probably the best solution is to feed PCE RGB into a custom transcoder that outputs RGB based on a lookup table. The only other solution we could think of was something extremely convoluted involving four THS7316 amplifier chips, and that still wouldn't be 100% accurate.

There is, however, the possibility of doing the S-Video mod in a smarter way than it's ever been done before. I was actually looking into this closely myself, until my oscilloscope started malfunctioning and not giving completely accurate voltage readings. Maybe I'll get back to it someday...

[daty2k1]

I see, thanks for the explanation. I was expecting something like that. If it was so simple I'm sure there would be a new board out already.

The S-Video solution would be a great alternative though as it can be very clean, especially on a CRT.

[kitty666cats]

Probably the best solution is to feed PCE RGB into a custom transcoder that outputs RGB based on a lookup table.

Fuuuuuck, that would be cool (especially if it could be used for several different consoles/LUTs/palettes)

[Jonesyy]

Just to update - I've gone for the mister and am now awaiting delivery.

Question: If I plan to play a lot of pce cd and sega cd games, would I be better off with a 512gb sd card or a 2-4tb external hard drive for about the same price? Are there any downsides to using an external hard drive vs an sd card?

Thanks

[fernan1234]

Question: If I plan to play a lot of pce cd and sega cd games, would I be better off with a 512gb sd card or a 2-4tb external hard drive for about the same price? Are there any downsides to using an external hard drive vs an sd card?

No disadvantage, other than the external USB drive taking up physical space. The MiSTer framework is capable of loading user files from both the SD card and an external USB at the same time. Game folders for each core are exclusive however, so if you have a TGFX16-CD folder in both the SD card and the external USB, then the MiSTer will default to look for CD files on the internal SD card (or at least this was the case last time I set up my MiSTer).