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 Post subject: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:35 am 


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Joined: 11 Jul 2018
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Location: Alberta
Hi all - I’m happy to announce I have a new product that I'm selling through Tindie, called the PlayBaby.

Image

PlayBaby is a compact and efficient PlayStation AV Multi-out to DSUB (with 3.5mm audio-output) for your PlayStation 1 and 2 gaming consoles; to output 15Khz (240p) and 480i/480p video.

On PlayStation 2 systems, this adapter will automatically handle both:

    -- RGBs [composite sync 240p games]

    -- RGsB [sync-on-green (SoG) 480p games[/list]


There is no human intervention required, the adapter will automatically detect change in resolution from the PlayStation.

Note that this device does not upscale or do any sort of transcoding; it merely handles PlayStation 1 and PlayStation 2 signals gracefully, in particular the resolution-mode changes from the PS2 which change from sync-over-composite-video/luma; to sync-on-green when changing from 240p to 480p content.

The PlayBaby is very similar in design goals to the SyncBaby, which I’ve sold for a number of years - and is targeted towards the Super Nintendo. It can also be purchased off Tindie https://www.tindie.com/products/chipnetics/syncbaby-snes-rgb-15khz-240p-video-adapter/. My next project will be a similar adapter for the Sega Dreamcast. I’m anticipating to have that ready for December 2021. The long term goal is to have a DSUB option for majority of consoles, phasing out SCART for those who choose to do so (or want the option to do so).

To best of my knowledge, this is the first DSUB adapter available for the PS1/PS2 gaming console. There was an official VGA cable made for the PS2 that came packaged with a distribution of Linux on the PS2; however the cable reportedly only worked with the Linux distribution (for some reason).

Tinde Link: https://www.tindie.com/products/chipnetics/playbaby-dsub-rgb240p480p-adapter-playstation/

Thanks!

More Pictures:::

Image

Image
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Last edited by Chipnetics on Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:53 am 


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Joined: 30 Apr 2012
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Location: Kentucky
Looking forward to the Dreamcast version since good VGA options are few and far between. Looks good!


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:56 am 


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Thanks! The Dreamcast version will essentially be the "Dreamcast VGA Box" in dongle form. Unsure what consoles to tackle thereafter, so if anyone has priorities let me know. Thx
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:22 am 


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Joined: 05 Nov 2019
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Not “the first”, per se…

https://www.ultimarc.com/console-adapte ... r-adaptor/

However, the above cable isn’t intended for PS1 & probably just uses a LM1881.

Looks cool! I check out new arrivals on Tindie pretty often so I’ve been aware of this thing for weeks :)

P.S. do Saturn after Dreamcast hehe
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:32 am 


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Yeah, I indeed listed it while back but didn't have a chance to post here until tonight. I'll keep Saturn in mind as a contender! Thanks for sharing the link.
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:38 am 



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 31
How hard would it be to tap into the composite/csync of the multi out to add on an rca jack for guncons?


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:49 am 


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Not hard... If this is something several people are interested in I'd probably do it as a "group buy" style thing. if 10+ commit, I will design.
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:58 am 



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 31
I meant how hard would it be for an individual to mod it, but if you designed it for a group buy, that'd be cool too :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:52 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2016
Posts: 87
I wonder how it would work with a JVC DT-V1910CG? Do You shipp it to Europe by any chance?


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:56 pm 


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Joined: 05 Apr 2017
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I would love to have one of these for each of my consoles, but I sure do wish that they had full plastic enclosures.


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:22 pm 


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SCARTicus wrote:
I would love to have one of these for each of my consoles, but I sure do wish that they had full plastic enclosures.


Thanks! Ideally, I'd love to injection mold a proper enclosure for these, it's certainly enticing.

I'll probe your brain and make two guesses to reasoning on your comment though; protection + aesthetics.

On protection:
-All the sensitive integrated circuitry is protected within the dongle itself, safe from dust/impact.
-There really isn't anything that will adversely affect the DSUB/audio-jack/caps from them being external.

On Aesthetics:
-You'll never see this thing except when installing it for all of 30 seconds, then forget about it.
-3D printed cases, IMHO, can look a little hodge-podge. I would sooner encase it in an epoxy cube =]
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:45 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1702
Chipnetics wrote:
-3D printed cases, IMHO, can look a little hodge-podge.


100% agree.

As a DSub user, I really appreciate that you are making these. If I may make a comment about pricing, when I see DSub adapters like this I see an opportunity to replace the custom Dsub console cables that can be bought from Retro-Access (and which is what I currently use in my setup), especially if they can be cost-saving in comparison even when adding the small cost of a regular coax VGA cable and stereo 3.5mm audio cable, but it turns out that it's not, as the adapter alone costs about the same as an RA ~5' cable (which also includes 3.5mm stereo lead) shipped.

So this is just to say that it would be ideal if, perhaps later with more streamlined production for these, the cost could come down to be more competitive with alternatives.


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:56 pm 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
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Location: Australia
A case or at least holes for standoffs to support the dongle would be nice.
I bet it has a fair amount of droop you are not showing when all the cables are connected.

Why did you choose a male dsub over a female?


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:31 pm 


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Syntax wrote:
A case or at least holes for standoffs to support the dongle would be nice.
I bet it has a fair amount of droop you are not showing when all the cables are connected.

Why did you choose a male dsub over a female?


A male would have been a very poor choice, but zooming in on the first Tindie picture it looks like female to me.


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:33 pm 



Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 31
Syntax wrote:
Why did you choose a male dsub over a female?

It is female. The lighting in the pictures make it look like a male dsub. I got thrown off by this too, but he lists a female dsub in the specs, and if you zoom in enough, you can see it is actually female.


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:38 pm 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
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Location: Australia
Wow, my bad, it really did look like a male plug I was super confused.


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:17 pm 


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Joined: 11 Jul 2018
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Location: Alberta
It is indeed female, just a weird camera illusion. :roll:

Also the units come with couple of standoffs to support any cable strain (height depends on if this is a PS1 or PS2 slim/fat). This was a common feedback on the SyncBaby (DSUB unit for the SNES - maybe I should rename it now?)... so those too come with a standoff.

I remember those Gefen-brand VGA to DVI scalers had a male plug; they ended up having the ship them with gender convertors. I'm curious if that was a massive oversight on their part before they went to production.
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Last edited by Chipnetics on Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:21 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Chipnetics wrote:
-3D printed cases, IMHO, can look a little hodge-podge.


100% agree.

As a DSub user, I really appreciate that you are making these. If I may make a comment about pricing, when I see DSub adapters like this I see an opportunity to replace the custom Dsub console cables that can be bought from Retro-Access (and which is what I currently use in my setup), especially if they can be cost-saving in comparison even when adding the small cost of a regular coax VGA cable and stereo 3.5mm audio cable, but it turns out that it's not, as the adapter alone costs about the same as an RA ~5' cable (which also includes 3.5mm stereo lead) shipped.

So this is just to say that it would be ideal if, perhaps later with more streamlined production for these, the cost could come down to be more competitive with alternatives.


Thanks! When I burn through the current PCBs I will be getting a fabrication quote for pre-assembled by the fabricator and may be able to tune the price as result. Most the pricing is in relation to the labor/pre-testing/packaging, not so much the component cost.

As a big DSUB fan myself, the end goal is to have the core consoles covered and shill out the 4-port DSUB GBSC Switch (Quad Damage) I did a while back. Possibly amp this into a 8-port Switch. This won't be until 2022 however.
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:34 pm 


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Joined: 11 Jul 2018
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Location: Alberta
One more "spec note". It's going to come up eventually: someone will point out the PS2 already has 220uF caps internally (PS1 does not). Personally, testing on several different monitors and scalers I couldn't see even a microscopic level of difference retaining the caps on the PlayBaby, for PS2.

However if someone is of the utmost attentiveness, drop me a note and I can leave them off for your PS2 - but I believe it entirely un-necessary and will just defeat inter-operability between PS1/PS2.

Also I have not advertised this as compatible with PS3; as I don't have a PS3 to test with (too modern :P ).... but I can't anticipate any issues there, but don't make any promises.
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:11 pm 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
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Location: Australia
Would you be interested in some files I made up for the OG xbox and Wii to VGA?
I gave up on it as the mod needs a board installed internally to avoid spiking the H V sync lines on hotplugging.
I originally tried with just 2 wires and killed a GPU.

The Wii one was just too cramped for the power lead.

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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:24 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 87
Looks nice! I made something similar a while back with an RGBS/RGBHV switch, but I didn't like how much strain it was putting on the AV port so I'm in the process of redesigning it with a 3D-printed enclosure to both make it shorter and provide some extra support. With the standoff, yours shouldn't suffer from that problem.


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:07 pm 


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Syntax wrote:
Would you be interested in some files I made up for the OG xbox and Wii to VGA?
I gave up on it as the mod needs a board installed internally to avoid spiking the H V sync lines on hotplugging.
I originally tried with just 2 wires and killed a GPU.

The Wii one was just too cramped for the power lead.

Image

Hell I'd be interested in that for the Xbox if only to output YPbPr over DE-15 with digital coax audio

Also what about RGsB? Can the xbox do that?


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:16 pm 


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Yeah it can, the custom VGA bios removes the SOG.
Normal Frosty VGA bios keeps it.

Frosty works on all encoders, the custom I only ever had work on a Conexant encoder.


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:12 pm 


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https://www.retrotekshop.com/products?pn=TG16AVAMP

This one for TG16 has always looked pretty neat to me

Come to think of it, the option for RGBHV out on the linked adapter is kinda interesting / I know you (Chipnetics) have that SyncSlayer with the option for ‘clean’ RGBHV (no csync on pin 13 along with Vsync on 14 but actual Hsync on 13)… have you or any customers come across a 15kHz monitor that won’t work with anything but clean RGBHV? I’ve never seen a CRT that needs it, maybe some LCDs might though (even the LCDs I have heard about are fine with the dirty ol LM1881-produced sync).

My Aurora Dido LT (can downscale to 240p, upscale to 1920x1440! Custom resolutions) will accept 15kHz RGsB and RGBHV but no RGBS, haha
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:18 am 


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Hello,

so this takes RGB signals, and outputs H and V sync separately instead of SoG? then you clean the green signal from the sync or just outputs it the way it is?

also for dreamcast, it already supports VGA output natively with its VGA cable. why making a dongle is needed?
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:17 am 


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VEGETA wrote:
Hello,

so this takes RGB signals, and outputs H and V sync separately instead of SoG? then you clean the green signal from the sync or just outputs it the way it is?


Quote:
Note that this device does not upscale or do any sort of transcoding; it merely handles PlayStation 1 and PlayStation 2 signals gracefully, in particular the resolution-mode changes from the PS2 which change from sync-over-composite-video/luma; to sync-on-green when changing from 240p to 480p content.


Quote:
also for dreamcast, it already supports VGA output natively with its VGA cable. why making a dongle is needed?


Personally all I've seen lately for Dreamcast VGA cables are cheap crappy $15 ones.


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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:20 am 


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VEGETA wrote:
Hello,

so this takes RGB signals, and outputs H and V sync separately instead of SoG? then you clean the green signal from the sync or just outputs it the way it is?

also for dreamcast, it already supports VGA output natively with its VGA cable. why making a dongle is needed?


It would have a sync combiner in it for RGBS 'csync' at any resolution, meaning you could use a VGA to BNC cable for 480i on something like a PVM and just a direct connection to a PC CRT for 480p/VGA mode (pretty much any PC CRT will accept RGBS and most likely doesn't require RGBHV).
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:53 pm 


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Quote:
Personally all I've seen lately for Dreamcast VGA cables are cheap crappy $15 ones.


Hmmm, I got one which seems very nice and no problem for it so far. what problem do you face?

kitty666cats wrote:
VEGETA wrote:
Hello,

so this takes RGB signals, and outputs H and V sync separately instead of SoG? then you clean the green signal from the sync or just outputs it the way it is?

also for dreamcast, it already supports VGA output natively with its VGA cable. why making a dongle is needed?


It would have a sync combiner in it for RGBS 'csync' at any resolution, meaning you could use a VGA to BNC cable for 480i on something like a PVM and just a direct connection to a PC CRT for 480p/VGA mode (pretty much any PC CRT will accept RGBS and most likely doesn't require RGBHV).


yes, sync combiner is a must for getting csync for compatible devices.

However, all sync combiner circuits use XNOR method which people reported it suffers from problems. no perfect csync generation method available so far to my knowledge. However, for dreamcast vga ... xnor may be ok with no problem. i don't know myself.

however, I was asking why people would need a vga output from PS1 and PS2 while most PC CRTs don't support 15 khz, and even my PC monitor (LG) doesn't support 240p\480i using its HDMI inputs.
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:57 pm 


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VEGETA wrote:
Quote:
Personally all I've seen lately for Dreamcast VGA cables are cheap crappy $15 ones.


Hmmm, I got one which seems very nice and no problem for it so far. what problem do you face?

kitty666cats wrote:
VEGETA wrote:
Hello,

so this takes RGB signals, and outputs H and V sync separately instead of SoG? then you clean the green signal from the sync or just outputs it the way it is?

also for dreamcast, it already supports VGA output natively with its VGA cable. why making a dongle is needed?


It would have a sync combiner in it for RGBS 'csync' at any resolution, meaning you could use a VGA to BNC cable for 480i on something like a PVM and just a direct connection to a PC CRT for 480p/VGA mode (pretty much any PC CRT will accept RGBS and most likely doesn't require RGBHV).


yes, sync combiner is a must for getting csync for compatible devices.

However, all sync combiner circuits use XNOR method which people reported it suffers from problems. no perfect csync generation method available so far to my knowledge. However, for dreamcast vga ... xnor may be ok with no problem. i don't know myself.

however, I was asking why people would need a vga output from PS1 and PS2 while most PC CRTs don't support 15 khz, and even my PC monitor (LG) doesn't support 240p\480i using its HDMI inputs.


For VGA switchers, which take RGBS “csync” and are far cheaper than SCART switches. Or using a VGA to BNC cable straight to a PVM (no need for a SCART cable + a female SCART to BNC). For a RGB to component transcoder that doesn’t use SCART for the input connector.

etc etc etc… VGA cables are both cheaper and also higher quality.
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 Post subject: Re: PlayBaby - PlayStation 1 & 2 DSUB Video Adapter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:24 pm 


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VEGETA wrote:
Quote:
Personally all I've seen lately for Dreamcast VGA cables are cheap crappy $15 ones.


Hmmm, I got one which seems very nice and no problem for it so far. what problem do you face?


I see Retro-Bit, Tomee, and junk Chinese cables online, they all look almost exactly the same. Tried the Tomee and got tons of interference and crosstalk.


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