D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

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strayan
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by strayan »

Odolwa wrote:For the PlayStation 2, is it possible to have a DSub15 cable that does YPbPr instead of RGBS? Are YPbPr and RGBS equivalent signals when it comes to quality? Would RGsB work with a DSub15 RGBS cable?
If all you want to do is pass ypbrp to a dsub connector then you just need a PS2 component cable and this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002 ... 99467e32-3

Your sink (the device you are passing the signal through to) has to have support for ypbpr on the dsub input though.

RGsB will work with the adapter I linked above since it uses the same 3 pins as ypbpr.

In theory RGB and ypbpr should be close to indistinguishable but often aren’t because lots of monitors process the signals differently (the TV might overscan or sharpen ypbpr signals but leave rgb signals alone).
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

strayan wrote:
Odolwa wrote:For the PlayStation 2, is it possible to have a DSub15 cable that does YPbPr instead of RGBS? Are YPbPr and RGBS equivalent signals when it comes to quality? Would RGsB work with a DSub15 RGBS cable?
If all you want to do is pass ypbrp to a dsub connector then you just need a PS2 component cable and this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002 ... 99467e32-3

Your sink (the device you are passing the signal through to) has to have support for ypbpr on the dsub input though.

RGsB will work with the adapter I linked above since it uses the same 3 pins as ypbpr.

In theory RGB and ypbpr should be close to indistinguishable but often aren’t because lots of monitors process the signals differently (the TV might overscan or sharpen ypbpr signals but leave rgb signals alone).
What will this cable do instead:
https://retro-access.com/products/fortr ... 4937190579
fernan1234
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by fernan1234 »

Odolwa wrote: What will this cable do instead:
https://retro-access.com/products/fortr ... 4937190579
Edit: I was probably wrong on this
Spoiler
It will give you RGBS. The PS2 will detect it as an "RGB" (like the original SCART or JP21 cables for the PS2) cable, which means that it will only output 480i (and 240p) but not 480p or 1080i for the few games that support it. IMO this is no big deal as the vast majority of PS2 games are 480i only. I feel like it was mainly sports and racing games that supported 480p, with a handful of exceptions.

It being detected as a RGB cable also has implications for DVD video playback, but you don't want to use a PS2 as a DVD player anyway, and there is also a homebrew solution to get around that.

Anyway, if you absolutely want YPbPr, then this won't do.
Last edited by fernan1234 on Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

fernan1234 wrote:
Odolwa wrote: What will this cable do instead:
https://retro-access.com/products/fortr ... 4937190579
It will give you RGBS. The PS2 will detect it as an "RGB" (like the original SCART or JP21 cables for the PS2) cable, which means that it will only output 480i (and 240p) but not 480p or 1080i for the few games that support it. IMO this is no big deal as the vast majority of PS2 games are 480i only. I feel like it was mainly sports and racing games that supported 480p, with a handful of exceptions.

It being detected as a RGB cable also has implications for DVD video playback, but you don't want to use a PS2 as a DVD player anyway, and there is also a homebrew solution to get around that.

Anyway, if you absolutely want YPbPr, then this won't do.
This cable can’t do Sync on Green?
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bobrocks95
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by bobrocks95 »

Not sure how this cable detect works, my cable from the same seller absolutely does 480p Sync on Green and still lets me select YPbPr output on the system menu. It also has a sync stripper since I need csync for my setup.
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fernan1234
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by fernan1234 »

bobrocks95 wrote:Not sure how this cable detect works, my cable from the same seller absolutely does 480p Sync on Green and still lets me select YPbPr output on the system menu. It also has a sync stripper since I need csync for my setup.
Maybe it does! Now that I think about it I don't know if the PS2 chooses output modes based on pin detection like the Dreamcast does. I'll edit my post.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by maxtherabbit »

Ps2 does not have mode detection
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

orange808 wrote:HD15/DE15 gender adapters or HD15/DE15 male to male cords are pretty easy to get. The RT5x doesn't have to be hanging on the output of the switch. It could hang on the RT5x instead.

I would probably attach some custom homemade rubber feet under the SCART "adapter" to offset the weight of the adapter pulling down on the RT5x SCART connection. It's pretty easy to buy them and trim them a little. The ones I use under the DVDO should be tall enough.
I think you're right, all we need are those gender adapters for the Rondo Products coupler, but we would still need a phoenix 5 pin male to 3.5mm stereo male adapter.
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

What about the MVX 88 VGA A? It's a matrix switcher, so what's the difference between it and a non-matrix switcher?
Sirotaca
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Sirotaca »

Odolwa wrote:What about the MVX 88 VGA A? It's a matrix switcher, so what's the difference between it and a non-matrix switcher?
Matrix switches allow freely routing any input to any output(s) you want. The SW VGA switches can only have a single input active at a time, which is sent to all outputs. The latter is typically sufficient for gaming setups, though matrix switches can have some interesting uses. For example, you could use an OSSC for progressive content, and a GBS-8200 only for interlaced content, with its output looped back into the switch so it can be digitized by the OSSC. The MVX doesn't do automatic switching though, if that's important to you.
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

Sirotaca wrote:
Odolwa wrote:What about the MVX 88 VGA A? It's a matrix switcher, so what's the difference between it and a non-matrix switcher?
Matrix switches allow freely routing any input to any output(s) you want. The SW VGA switches can only have a single input active at a time, which is sent to all outputs. The latter is typically sufficient for gaming setups, though matrix switches can have some interesting uses. For example, you could use an OSSC for progressive content, and a GBS-8200 only for interlaced content, with its output looped back into the switch so it can be digitized by the OSSC. The MVX doesn't do automatic switching though, if that's important to you.
How do you loop the output back into the switch?
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Sirotaca »

Odolwa wrote:How do you loop the output back into the switch?
GBS-8200 output -> switch input.
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

I hate to have to mention this here, but I ordered my cables on September 4 and I haven't received any updates on them. Does anyone know how long it should take for these cables to come in?
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kitty666cats
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by kitty666cats »

Odolwa wrote:I hate to have to mention this here, but I ordered my cables on September 4 and I haven't received any updates on them. Does anyone know how long it should take for these cables to come in?
https://retro-access.com/pages/order-status

^ Check your order number and this should give you an estimate. I would estimate ~1.5 to 2 months, I think that is how long my Saturn cable took...
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

kitty666cats wrote:
Odolwa wrote:I hate to have to mention this here, but I ordered my cables on September 4 and I haven't received any updates on them. Does anyone know how long it should take for these cables to come in?
https://retro-access.com/pages/order-status

^ Check your order number and this should give you an estimate. I would estimate ~1.5 to 2 months, I think that is how long my Saturn cable took...
Thanks, that's just what I needed. My order number isn't on the list yet though.
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bobrocks95
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by bobrocks95 »

Odolwa wrote:
kitty666cats wrote:
Odolwa wrote:I hate to have to mention this here, but I ordered my cables on September 4 and I haven't received any updates on them. Does anyone know how long it should take for these cables to come in?
https://retro-access.com/pages/order-status

^ Check your order number and this should give you an estimate. I would estimate ~1.5 to 2 months, I think that is how long my Saturn cable took...
Thanks, that's just what I needed. My order number isn't on the list yet though.
Totally hearsay but I think retro-access is just down to the one main woman doing it all now, I think more people were involved before? Definitely sucks that they've had to backlog so much, but there's only so much they can do.
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fernan1234
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by fernan1234 »

bobrocks95 wrote:Totally hearsay but I think retro-access is just down to the one main woman doing it all now, I think more people were involved before? Definitely sucks that they've had to backlog so much, but there's only so much they can do.
Andrew is no longer around? Dang, must be super rough keeping up all by herself.
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bobrocks95
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by bobrocks95 »

fernan1234 wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:Totally hearsay but I think retro-access is just down to the one main woman doing it all now, I think more people were involved before? Definitely sucks that they've had to backlog so much, but there's only so much they can do.
Andrew is no longer around? Dang, must be super rough keeping up all by herself.
Okay please ignore that, I was wrong and don't want to spread false info. They do post on the twitter account somewhat frequently though with stock updates and such, and as expected from covid there has been a backlog for a long time: https://twitter.com/retroaccess/status/ ... 5545046018

(Though I definitely want to see csync options come back in the future, I think it's all Extron VGA units will take)
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kitty666cats
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by kitty666cats »

https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... a-adapter/

^ these are pretty nice, can pull 5V from SCART via adjusting the solder blob (the fella who runs the site is awesome, he can adjust them prior to shipping as well)

http://www.consolegoods.co.uk/

^ this guy's cables are legit and work perfectly fine (despite looking similar to the cheap ones McBazel etc sell, notice the pattern around the connector on the console end - not the same thing).


...using the PCB from the first link & sync on cvid/sync on luma cables from the 2nd would 'tide you over' if anyone is seeking a quicker method than R.A.

Or, could make your own cables, heh :)
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

bobrocks95 wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:Totally hearsay but I think retro-access is just down to the one main woman doing it all now, I think more people were involved before? Definitely sucks that they've had to backlog so much, but there's only so much they can do.
Andrew is no longer around? Dang, must be super rough keeping up all by herself.
Okay please ignore that, I was wrong and don't want to spread false info. They do post on the twitter account somewhat frequently though with stock updates and such, and as expected from covid there has been a backlog for a long time: https://twitter.com/retroaccess/status/ ... 5545046018

(Though I definitely want to see csync options come back in the future, I think it's all Extron VGA units will take)
Does this mean that the DSub-15 cables that Retro Access sells are not CSync cables? I bought several of them. Please let me know.
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kitty666cats
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by kitty666cats »

They were talking about BNC cables
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

kitty666cats wrote:They were talking about BNC cables
My bad, lol.
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

The D-Sub 15 cables I ordered just arrived in the mail today and I'm having an issue. When playing consoles that are hooked up with the D-Sub 15 cables, for some reason the screen goes black for a half second every 1 - 2 minutes or so. It's very annoying, and happens on every console that's using them (NES, SNES, N64, and PS2). I know for sure this issue is not caused by my RT5X, because my GameCube is connected to it with official component cables, and it doesn't happen at all. The issue of the screen going black is either being caused by the Extron SW4 VGA/Ars, or by the Retro Access cables. Another issue was buying such a short cable to connect the SW4 to the RT5X, but that was my own mistake. Do you guys think the screen going black has anything to do with the Retro Access cables, or is it the SW4?
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bobrocks95
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by bobrocks95 »

Odolwa wrote:The D-Sub 15 cables I ordered just arrived in the mail today and I'm having an issue. When playing consoles that are hooked up with the D-Sub 15 cables, for some reason the screen goes black for a half second every 1 - 2 minutes or so. It's very annoying, and happens on every console that's using them (NES, SNES, N64, and PS2). I know for sure this issue is not caused by my RT5X, because my GameCube is connected to it with official component cables, and it doesn't happen at all. The issue of the screen going black is either being caused by the Extron SW4 VGA/Ars, or by the Retro Access cables. Another issue was buying such a short cable to connect the SW4 to the RT5X, but that was my own mistake. Do you guys think the screen going black has anything to do with the Retro Access cables, or is it the SW4?
What cable is connecting the SW4 to the RT5X? Extron switches are going to output TTL level sync signals, you need a resistor to get down to 75 Ohm if you're using the SCART input on the 5X.
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

bobrocks95 wrote:What cable is connecting the SW4 to the RT5X? Extron switches are going to output TTL level sync signals, you need a resistor to get down to 75 Ohm if you're using the SCART input on the 5X.
It was this custom cable that I mentioned here:
Odolwa wrote:I think this is the correct cable that I should make, regarding RGBS output. First, it should be a custom Scart cable:
https://retro-access.com/collections/cu ... -builder-4
Video Connector: 15 Pin Dsub Male
15 Pin Dsub Pinout: RGBS
Audio Connector: Phoenix Plug
Destination Pinout: SCART
Destination Audio Connector: Audio Line in SCART
I left a note to have it attenuated as you suggested:
bobrocks95 wrote:That custom cable sounds right, but I'd leave a note to say please make sure the sync line is attenuated since you'll be plugging the SCART end into a RT5X. All Extron VGA switches afaik will output TTL level sync that can damage most SCART inputs.
Odolwa wrote:Thanks, I'll put that note into the Pinout Notes option.
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bobrocks95
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by bobrocks95 »

Oops, yeah, we had covered all that ground.

So you're not likely to have something else SCART you can plug it into...

There's a way to check the voltage on the sync line to make sure it's attenuated if you have a multimeter. I think RetroRGB did a fairly straightforward guide on it.

You could also get a cheap little VGA female-to-female coupler to bypass the SW4 and see if that solves the issue. Though in theory if both the console cable and the VGA to SCART cable are attenuated I'm not sure if that would drop the sync voltage TOO low to work right...

Do the dropouts happen on bright or all-white screens or anything? That's usually the sign that a sync line is too "hot", like an Audio Authority component switch I used to use that boosted the signal for some annoying reason.
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

bobrocks95 wrote:Oops, yeah, we had covered all that ground.

So you're not likely to have something else SCART you can plug it into...

There's a way to check the voltage on the sync line to make sure it's attenuated if you have a multimeter. I think RetroRGB did a fairly straightforward guide on it.

You could also get a cheap little VGA female-to-female coupler to bypass the SW4 and see if that solves the issue. Though in theory if both the console cable and the VGA to SCART cable are attenuated I'm not sure if that would drop the sync voltage TOO low to work right...

Do the dropouts happen on bright or all-white screens or anything? That's usually the sign that a sync line is too "hot", like an Audio Authority component switch I used to use that boosted the signal for some annoying reason.
I was a little off, the dropouts happen every 30 seconds to 1 minute, I can't get past a full minute without a dropout. It's very, very annoying. They don't happen from bright or all white screens, they just happen. I can try the female to female coupler, but I'll have to buy one.
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bobrocks95
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by bobrocks95 »

Sounds like it's not sync related but you never know. You definitely want to start eliminating potential sources for the problem by simplifying the chain.

It could be:
- RA VGA to SCART cable
- SW4 switch
- Retrotink 5X SCART input issue

Very unlikely it's the console cables since it happens on every system.

Hopefully you could find a coupler somewhere local? If not they're $5 on Amazon and you can return it right after.
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Odolwa
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by Odolwa »

bobrocks95 wrote:Sounds like it's not sync related but you never know. You definitely want to start eliminating potential sources for the problem by simplifying the chain.

It could be:
- RA VGA to SCART cable
- SW4 switch
- Retrotink 5X SCART input issue

Very unlikely it's the console cables since it happens on every system.

Hopefully you could find a coupler somewhere local? If not they're $5 on Amazon and you can return it right after.
I do own the gscartsw_lite and it works just fine with the RT5X, and I use it with the Rondo Products coupler. Never had the screen go black with the gscartsw_lite.
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bobrocks95
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Re: D-Sub 15-Pin vs Component and Scart

Post by bobrocks95 »

You can nix the last possibility then. I'm just kinda spitballing, it's always hard to find the problem in cases like this. Would honestly be easier if one part of the chain wasn't working at all.
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