Frustrations with controllers (especially 8bitdo)

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thebigcheese
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:18 pm

Frustrations with controllers (especially 8bitdo)

Post by thebigcheese »

This is a bit of a rant, but I'm just really frustrated with 8bitdo's handling of analog sticks. The performance of them changes practically every other firmware update and I don't think there has been a single one where they actually perform correctly. These are my observations:

-Way, way back when the SN30 Pro came out (probably on one of the 1.xx firmwares), the sticks would register movement in a square. This means that if you move directly up, down, left, or right, your movement is correctly mapped; if you move on a diagonal, it is interpolated and eventually extends beyond the border of the circle it is physically restricted to. Not only that, but it had a "snap" to it, so once you got within a certain range of the cardinal directions, it would snap to them.

-Eventually, the snap was removed, but they have since gone back and forth about mapping the actual movement. In the last firmware I used (4.02, I think), the first time you move the stick it would actually snap from 0 to 100%, but every time after that would work properly as an analog input. But it would initially register as a square until you circle the stick around a few times. It would gradually reduce from a square into a circle. Just bizarre, but at least it would eventually correct itself, so I'd just circle the sticks a few times when I first turned it on and that was that.

-And now, on the latest two firmwares, it's just always a square. They have eliminated that initial 0 to 100% snap, though.

-Lastly, and this isn't really a complaint, they seem to have some sort of drift compensation built in. Switch Pro Controllers also do this, I believe, but basically it always registers as perfectly centered when you aren't touching the stick. Well, technically it's like 0.000002% or something on the 8bitdo sticks, but functionally it's 0%. I'm not sure if they just have a firmware-level deadzone or how this works, but it's kinda neat. Except, I suppose, if it is a firmware-level deadzone, because then you can't actually reduce the deadzone and if a game has a deadzone of 20%, then really it's more than that since you have to add them together.

So... why? This is the only controller (well, controllers, I own two SN30 Pro+ and two SN30 Pro) that doesn't seem to know how analog sticks are supposed to function. It's physically gated to a circular movement, there is absolutely no reason to map it to a square. And they just keep flip-flopping back and forth. I've contacted them about it and they are incredibly dismissive, basically just telling me to try the same two (old) firmwares they tell people to use every time anything goes wrong.

And as long as I'm ranting about controllers, I'd just like to complain about Microsoft's continued refusal to fix the face buttons on Xbox controllers. I've written this all up elsewhere, so I'm not going to repost everything here, but the basic version is just that at certain angles the face buttons simply don't register inputs. It's down to the design of the contact pad. On Xbox controllers, there's a clear line of separation between the two contact traces (or whatever you want to call them) whereas other controllers (Sony, Nintendo, Sega at least) interleave the two so that they will bridge correctly regardless of the angle you press the button. There are pictures that illustrate this in that link, so check those out if you are curious. It's such an easy fix and they could've done it so easily when they put out the new console, but they didn't. Now, to be fair, they do seem to have figured out a way to mitigate the problem on the newest controllers as all three of mine work much better in this regard, but they still haven't actually fixed the cause. It's just frustrating.

Edit: Just so people don't think I'm picking on any particular brand, I'd just like to say that Switch Pro Controllers and DualSense are not without faults, either, but the Switch Pro Controller's d-pad issues are already well known. The DualSense (and DualShock 4 before it) have some really strange jitter sort of behavior with their thumbsticks, at least when connected to a computer. I don't see a lot of info about that, but it happens with all of mine. I'm not sure if this is because Sony expects the dejittering to be done in software or the driver is just bad or the comparatively high polling rate of these controllers makes jitter more apparent or what, but it does make me less inclined to use them on PC.
Last edited by thebigcheese on Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guile
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:11 pm

Re: Frustrations with controllers (especially 8bitdo)

Post by Guile »

Nice writeup on the Xbox controller problem. I noticed this too when I got a One X, it was horrible. It definitely got a little better with use but still happens sometimes. It seems to affect the A button in particular, I didn't really have problems with the others.

This really is unforgivable for such a widely used controller and most Microsoft products I've used are very solid. It's very disappointing to hear it's in the new controllers as well. Having the A button, arguably the most important and commonly pressed button be that defective is ridiculous.

The only reason I can think of is that they want to prevent accidental light diagonal inputs but otherwise it really should be fixed.
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incrediblehark
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Re: Frustrations with controllers (especially 8bitdo)

Post by incrediblehark »

I agree with the xbox rant... just overall i general the controller feels a lot cheaper to me. I was actually kind of surprised when I got my series s and feeling the buttons compared to even the ps4 or previous generation consoles. They just felt almost 3rd party like, and some of my face buttons got stuck after normal use. I really like the new d-pad though.

I'm still disappointed with the switch's joycon issues, every new set I've bought has had trouble, I'm tired of wasting money on a new set. I also want a new pro controller with fixed d-pad (I think they fixed it?) but worried any new one I buy will just be the original model, so I'm waiting for a different color or variant to know for sure its a new pad.

Can't speak for 8bitdo as I don't own one, but your post definitely makes me reconsider buying one, at least with analog input.
thebigcheese
Posts: 707
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Frustrations with controllers (especially 8bitdo)

Post by thebigcheese »

incrediblehark wrote:I agree with the xbox rant... just overall i general the controller feels a lot cheaper to me. I was actually kind of surprised when I got my series s and feeling the buttons compared to even the ps4 or previous generation consoles. They just felt almost 3rd party like, and some of my face buttons got stuck after normal use. I really like the new d-pad though.
You know, I was convinced I would hate the d-pad, but it's actually really good. I just wish it wasn't so freaking loud. And yeah, I hear you. The DualSense feels so premium, even if I hate how thick it is, and now the Xbox controller, even though I do rather like it, feels so cheap. I'd get an Elite Series 2, but the face button issues are so much worse on those for whatever reason (I've tried 5 of them) and there are some internal refinements to the new controllers that make it overall perform better, so... maybe an Elite Series 3 will finally fix things?
incrediblehark wrote:I'm still disappointed with the switch's joycon issues, every new set I've bought has had trouble, I'm tired of wasting money on a new set. I also want a new pro controller with fixed d-pad (I think they fixed it?) but worried any new one I buy will just be the original model, so I'm waiting for a different color or variant to know for sure its a new pad.
I heard that as well and picked one up a few months back. I do think they did something, it's definitely better than my original one, but it's still not 100% fixed. Maybe like 70% fixed. I think part of the problem is just trying to stick a rubber dome d-pad in such a small space makes it really picky. Never used to think I'd want this, but I wish they just stole the clicky pad off the Xbox controller. There's never any question of missed inputs with that.
dojima
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Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:51 am

Re: Frustrations with controllers (especially 8bitdo)

Post by dojima »

Interesting observations. How does this all translate to their actual use? I own an 8BitDo Pro 2 and 2nd gen Xbone controller. Never had any issues doing anything with either of them so far. I guess maybe I'm not that particular. Is this only stuff you notice when pulling up an input monitor or do you actually have problems controlling games? I've mostly never had an issue with any game controller I've ever used. The GameCube and X360 had horrific d-pads, but those were probably the most egregious in my experience. Useful stuff to keep an eye out for, nevertheless.
thebigcheese
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Re: Frustrations with controllers (especially 8bitdo)

Post by thebigcheese »

Probably depends on the games you play, but it would be less accurate aiming on diagonals in particular. Essentially, if you keep the stick at the same distance from center and rotate it around, you'll find that it registers as farther out the closer you get to a 45-degree angle between, say, up and left. For most games, the farther out the stick is, the faster the speed of movement, whether it be character movement or aiming. How much that will affect any one person will depend on their play style, I'm sure. For example, if you always tilt the stick all the way, it's not really going to matter because you're at or beyond the 100% mark anyway and games will stop registering anything beyond that point (and usually have an outer deadline, too). But if you need precise aiming and movement that requires minor stick movements, I imagine you'd notice it a lot.
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