Steam Deck

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shmupsrocks
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Steam Deck

Post by shmupsrocks »

Anyone else excited about shmups on this thing:

https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck

Should input lag be low or too early to tell?
ldeveraux
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ldeveraux »

shmupsrocks wrote:Anyone else excited about shmups on this thing:

https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck

Should input lag be low or too early to tell?
This thing initially disappoints me, it really just looks like a Switch to play Steam games on. Steam games that most use a mouse/keyboard to play efficiently. I want to be wrong, but very underwhelming.
spmbx
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by spmbx »

I'm quite excited for the steam deck. With the whole adult life going on i just can't put in hours sitting behind the desk-pc so for me this is great.
Regarding latency, the only thing they have said is that they are lower latency than steam controllers:
https://youtu.be/e3HnDR7A8yE?t=425
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Kez
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by Kez »

I am tempted to pick one up. I put down a reservation and if it reviews really bad I'll just cancel it. I have used a Steam controller quite a bit, it's kinda hard to believe but it really does work pretty well with most games, even keyboard + mouse ones. I actually had a good time playing Scribblenauts with a Steam controller, which if you've played before I'm sure you'll understand how dependent that is on k+m controls! Looking at the Steam Deck, it should be compatible with existing Steam controller profiles so I think it will work well with pretty much any game you can throw at it just by choosing the most popular profile.

I am concerned about the performance though, I really don't think next-gen games are gonna run well on this thing at all. Still, I play a lot of older and indie games on Steam and I think it will run those super well. I think input lag will be minimal, and obviously performance is rarely an issue for shmups so I think it'll be pretty decent for those. Only problem is it isn't gonna tate nicely like the Switch does.
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Josh128
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by Josh128 »

They are targeting 30fps for even the newest games, so you shouldnt be worried. Being able to hit 30 for even the most recent AAA games means that many great titles from 3+ years ago will very likely be able to lock to 60. Nobody really knows the real capability of the AMD Van Gogh APU yet, but my educated guess is that its going to be equivalent to a GTX 1050 or 1050ti at best (+15-20%). Thats the best we can expect, but if they hit that, thats pretty damned impressive and plenty powerful for 30fps/800p gaming regardless of the title.
ZellSF
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ZellSF »

ldeveraux wrote:
shmupsrocks wrote:Anyone else excited about shmups on this thing:

https://store.steampowered.com/steamdeck

Should input lag be low or too early to tell?
This thing initially disappoints me, it really just looks like a Switch to play Steam games on.
It looks like a Switch, but it's noticeably larger and the Switch was already stretching it as a portable device. If I wanted a device to play PC games on the go I would rather put the 400$ towards an ultraportable laptop than this.
dojima
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by dojima »

The desire for a product like this has been huge for a long time. I've no interest in playing games away from the home, but if I did, this would be the way I'd do it. Might still be worth picking one up eventually purely for emulation. Assuming Valve continues improving Proton and can actually keep the devices stocked, Nintendo should be worried.
ZellSF
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ZellSF »

Nintendo is never going to worry about this thing (and they shouldn't).
spmbx
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by spmbx »

Totally different market than switch, nintendo has nothing to fear.

Regarding expectations, if you go in expecting to run farcry6 on ultra at 60fps on this you'll probably end up disappointed. If you tone down your expectations a bit i can see this working out.
dojima
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by dojima »

ZellSF wrote:Nintendo is never going to worry about this thing (and they shouldn't).
ahaha, you'd be surprised what they worry about.
spmbx wrote:Totally different market than switch.
How?
ZellSF
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ZellSF »

dojima wrote:
ZellSF wrote:Nintendo is never going to worry about this thing (and they shouldn't).
ahaha, you'd be surprised what they worry about.
I normally don't speak positive of Nintendo in any way, but they're not that dumb. This is not in any way a threat to them.

They might have talked about it, sure. Worried about it? Hell no. And they never will.
dojima
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by dojima »

ZellSF wrote:
dojima wrote:
ZellSF wrote:Nintendo is never going to worry about this thing (and they shouldn't).
ahaha, you'd be surprised what they worry about.
I normally don't speak positive of Nintendo in any way, but they're not that dumb. This is not in any way a threat to them.

They might have talked about it, sure. Worried about it? Hell no. And they never will.
What makes you so sure, and how is it not a threat to them?
ZellSF
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ZellSF »

You haven't given any reason for why they should be worried. That's pretty telling in itself, this has no massive selling point.
dojima
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by dojima »

ZellSF wrote:You haven't given any reason for why they should be worried. That's pretty telling in itself, this has no massive selling point.
lmao, well...that's because I think it's pretty obvious. In this very short thread, there have already been 2 comparisons to Switch. It's very obviously a competitor, and I can think of no compelling argument for how it wouldn't be. When compared in nearly any way, Switch ends up at a disadvantage; it's therefore naturally worrisome for Nintendo.

Your turn to proffer a reason for why it's not worrisome. I honestly can't think of anything. Their handful of infrequently released first-party titles isn't really enough to stem the tide—it wasn't for Wii or Wii U.
ZellSF
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ZellSF »

dojima wrote:
ZellSF wrote:You haven't given any reason for why they should be worried. That's pretty telling in itself, this has no massive selling point.
lmao, well...that's because I think it's pretty obvious. In this very short thread, there have already been 2 comparisons to Switch. It's very obviously a competitor, and I can think of no compelling argument for how it wouldn't be.
It's being compared because it's a similar product. That doesn't mean it's competitive. The Aya Neo and GPD WIN 3 get compared to the Switch too.
dojima wrote: When compared in nearly any way, Switch ends up at a disadvantage
The Switch:

Has better local multiplayer.
Has better battery life.
Has more exclusive games.
Has a better screen (soon).
Is cheaper.
Is lighter.
Is smaller.

I'm sort of running out of ways, so when you compared them in nearly every way, where did the Steam Deck win out, and how do you think that's going to result in a significant amount of sales?
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Osirus
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by Osirus »

I've been seeing these handheld gaming PC meme things for a few years now. Still doesn't interest me. The thing looks to be in the same class as Atari Lynx in terms of size.
dojima
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by dojima »

ZellSF wrote:I'm sort of running out of ways, so when you compared them in nearly every way, where did the Steam Deck win out, and how do you think that's going to result in a significant amount of sales?
Well, I'm glad you can agree they're similar products. Still waiting to hear from spmbx how they aren't.

I'm not sure Switch does have better battery life. Seems they're equal at best. Local multiplayer is identical if you're around a wireless router, and even if you're not, there shouldn't be any technical reason why it can't create ad hoc networks. It may be more difficult, but it also may not be, depending on Valve. There are many more games exclusive to PC than to Nintendo Switch. OLED screens are debatably better; I'd prefer a screen without potential image retention issues on anything where I play games, but sure, I'll give you that one.

More to the point, none of the examples you listed explain the primary reason why the Switch is successful except perhaps size, price, and exclusives. The main reason for its success is because it is the only real device that allows you to play real games portably (crowdfunded devices are neat and all, but not exactly real competition in the way that something from a known quantity like Valve is, plus they're 2–3x the cost just to dip your feet in). That will soon no longer be the case. People were already murmuring Switch requiems over the advent of cloud gaming, as you'd be able to play console/PC games anywhere on your phone. That comes with its own set of disadvantages, however.

When Nintendo recently announced the OLED Switch, everyone was disappointed because they wanted and expected a Switch 'Pro'. That is exactly what the Steam Deck is, and the best news is that you already own all the games you want to play on it. They aren't sad that it weighs a little more and can't play Mario Odyssey and Pokemon in upscaled 4K (yet...). They're excited that it can play all the games that haven't yet been ported to the Switch and play them much better than the Switch ever could.
ZellSF
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ZellSF »

I think you're confusing everyone with people on niche gaming forums.
dojima wrote:There are many more games exclusive to PC than to Nintendo Switch
They're not exclusive to the Steam Deck though. That's literally 1/3 of the official selling points: "Your Steam Library, anywhere". It's a device you buy to play games you already have access to. A Switch is a device you buy (among other reasons) to play games you can't play otherwise.
dojima wrote:I'm not sure Switch does have better battery life.
Official specifications:

Steam Deck: 2-8 hours
Switch: 4.5-9 hours
Switch Lite: 3-7 hours
dojima wrote:Local multiplayer is identical if you're around a wireless router
Local multiplayer on the same device, you know, one of the selling points of the Switch, part what made it a huge success?
dojima wrote:(crowdfunded devices are neat and all, but not exactly real competition in the way that something from a known quantity like Valve is, plus they're 2–3x the cost just to dip your feet in)
Well, two things. First GPD has created 5 gaming consoles compared to Valve's 0, so I would say they're the known quantity here. Second, if you agree price is a huge factor in how successful a device is, why do you think a device starting at 400$ threatens one starting at 200$?
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Guspaz
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by Guspaz »

They're not directly competing with the Switch any more than a desktop PC is competing with the PS5. The Steam Deck will probably sell well for what it is, but Nintendo's sold 89 million Switch consoles.

The PSP was a great deal more powerful/capable than the DS. The DS outsold it 2:1. The PSV was a great deal more powerful than the 3DS. The 3DS outsold it 6:1. Even if the Steam Deck is a big success, Nintendo will be fine. The PSP was a smash hit (sold 81 million units) and Nintendo was still fine.
dojima
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by dojima »

ZellSF wrote:I think you're confusing everyone with people on niche gaming forums.
haha, yeah, such niche gaming forums as the comment section on the OLED Switch YouTube announcement video.
ZellSF wrote:They're not exclusive to the Steam Deck though.
They kind of are if you want to play them portably with console-like convenience.
ZellSF wrote:Official specifications:
If you've ever used a Switch, you know how little that means.
ZellSF wrote:Local multiplayer on the same device
If your argument is that it's better because the Joy-Cons can function as two separate, chintzy controllers, I guess I'll give you that, sure. Ad hoc multiplayer is the much better 'local multiplayer' functionality, so forgive me for thinking that's what you meant. Steam Deck can obviously do the same thing, just have to bring your own controllers.
ZellSF wrote:GPD has created 5 gaming consoles compared to Valve's 0, so I would say they're the known quantity here.
hahah, come on...you're not being serious, are you? Just because you shoehorn a Windows PC into a handheld, that doesn't mean you can call it a console.
ZellSF wrote:Second, if you agree price is a huge factor in how successful a device is, why do you think a device starting at 400$ threatens one starting at 200$?
Well if you want to move the goalpost around, then we have to remove some of your points too. At least debate your opinion in good faith.
Guspaz wrote:They're not directly competing with the Switch any more than a desktop PC is competing with the PS5.
Thousands of people directly comparing the two online as we speak indicates otherwise, imo.
Guspaz wrote:The PSP was a great deal more powerful/capable than the DS. The DS outsold it 2:1. The PSV was a great deal more powerful than the 3DS. The 3DS outsold it 6:1. Even if the Steam Deck is a big success, Nintendo will be fine. The PSP was a smash hit (sold 81 million units) and Nintendo was still fine.
I'm not saying that this is going to bankrupt Nintendo; I'm saying it concerns them. It doesn't matter if a company makes $10B a year, they still want to make $10.1B+ the next year. This is the nature of business. Anything that has the potential to eat into a company's profits is concerning. It's impossible, I think, to argue that the Steam Deck will not have that effect.

Anyway, I think this is getting circuitous. I'll give you all the last words.
ZellSF
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ZellSF »

dojima wrote:haha, yeah, such niche gaming forums as the comment section on the OLED Switch YouTube announcement video.
If we're going by Youtube, 201K likes vs 39K dislikes doesn't exactly indicate everyone wanted something else, does it?
dojima wrote:If you've ever used a Switch, you know how little that means.
1) Start sourcing your claims. You're basically trolling, not saying anything substantial yourself, while trying to get other people to make points for you to argue against.

2) There's no reason to believe Valve's specifications are any more honest than Nintendo's.
dojima wrote:hahah, come on...you're not being serious, are you? Just because you shoehorn a Windows PC into a handheld, that doesn't mean you can call it a console.
You'll have to elaborate on what stupid pedantic point you're making here. They're not gaming consoles because they're putting an existing OS on it?

That's the case for the Steam Deck too. It will be running SteamOS, available here: https://store.steampowered.com/steamos/ ... ver=custom
dojima wrote:Steam Deck can obviously do the same thing, just have to bring your own controllers.
If you want to throw even more money at it and make it even less portable and have a harder time finding interesting games to play like that (again on the Switch, it's sort of a system selling feature), sure.
dojima wrote:Thousands of people directly comparing the two online as we speak indicates otherwise, imo.
Again, people directly comparing some products do not mean they're seriously competing. Do you think Nokia makes Apple worried about their market position?
dojima wrote: Anything that has the potential to eat into a company's profits is concerning. It's impossible, I think, to argue that the Steam Deck will not have that effect.
But your point is that Nintendo should be worried. Not that they'll lose a tiny, insignificant amount of money.
ldeveraux
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ldeveraux »

It's looks like a switch and that's usually enough to catch the eye of Nintendo's lawyers imo
ZellSF
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ZellSF »

Valve is big enough to hire lawyers to defend against frivolous lawsuits.
spmbx
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by spmbx »

My kids just want a switch. They want to visit their friends islands in animal crossing: new horizons. They want to make and share levels in mario maker 2. They don't want to install Dolphin and play the previous gen animal crossing. They don't give a shit how many tflops the device has. They are not interested in steam deck in the slightest.
ldeveraux
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ldeveraux »

ZellSF wrote:Valve is big enough to hire lawyers to defend against frivolous lawsuits.
Bigger than Nintendo? Not even close. Don't delude yourself into thinking this is OK with Nintendo. If they are willing to go after almost every ROM site out there, you'd better believe they have their eye on this lookalike.
ZellSF
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ZellSF »

ldeveraux wrote:
ZellSF wrote:Valve is big enough to hire lawyers to defend against frivolous lawsuits.
Bigger than Nintendo? Not even close.
Did I say that? Nintendo being bigger doesn't mean they'll automatically win lawsuits, if that was the case Apple would have shut down Samsung long ago.

I said they were big enough to defend themselves. They won't bankrupt themselves by hiring basic legal representation. They'll be fine.
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nem
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by nem »

The kids I know don't give a shit about Nintendo properties. They want to play Among Us, Fortnite and Minecraft.
ZellSF wrote:Do you think Nokia makes Apple worried about their market position?
Do you think Apple made Nokia worried about their market position in 2007?

I'm not sure if Valve can pump out millions of these, but if they can, and they can get these inside physical stores, whatever next iteration they come up with, could be real competition to Nintendo.

Some ifs, admittedly.
ZellSF
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ZellSF »

nem wrote:
ZellSF wrote:Do you think Nokia makes Apple worried about their market position?
Do you think Apple made Nokia worried about their market position in 2007?
The iPhone actually did something new (compared to Nokia). It also was a product by a manufacturer with a long record of producing hardware, and getting it in consumer hands. Among other things...
nem wrote:The kids I know don't give a shit about Nintendo properties. They want to play Among Us, Fortnite and Minecraft.
So primarily online games, and games heavily centered around streaming. These are not things the Steam Deck will excel at.

Those games are also all available on the Switch.
ldeveraux
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by ldeveraux »

ZellSF wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
ZellSF wrote:Valve is big enough to hire lawyers to defend against frivolous lawsuits.
Bigger than Nintendo? Not even close.
Did I say that? Nintendo being bigger doesn't mean they'll automatically win lawsuits, if that was the case Apple would have shut down Samsung long ago.

I said they were big enough to defend themselves. They won't bankrupt themselves by hiring basic legal representation. They'll be fine.
OK I guess you must be right since you have more posts than me.
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Guspaz
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Re: Steam Deck

Post by Guspaz »

ldeveraux wrote:
ZellSF wrote:Valve is big enough to hire lawyers to defend against frivolous lawsuits.
Bigger than Nintendo? Not even close. Don't delude yourself into thinking this is OK with Nintendo. If they are willing to go after almost every ROM site out there, you'd better believe they have their eye on this lookalike.
Valve is still a multi-billion dollar company, and those don't tend to have a problem paying whatever litigation costs they need to. But that's not the point: Nintendo wouldn't have a case. The Steam Deck and the Switch are somewhat visually similar, but only in the same way that the Switch is similar to the PSP or PS Vita... or Game Gear or Atari Lynx. Or any of the inumerable other similar form-factor handheld PCs that came before it that failed to take off. Nintendo doesn't have a patent on "game console with controls beside the screen" (there's so much prior art for that), and the Steam Deck doesn't even have detachable controls, which is kind of the Switch's main schtick.
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