Damaging a PVM during tate?

[cave hermit]

So I have a 14 inch OEV-143 that I've been using with my MiSTer and various scart connected consoles, I wanted to play Dodonpachi and Dimahoo so I tated it. I simply powered off the monitor, gently rotated it, then powered it back on. It seemed to work fine, although I noticed faint banding on the right side of the tate screen (top of the monitor in yoko). After playing a little bit I powered off the monitor, rotated it back to yoko, then powered it on and it appeared fine as far as I could tell. I did this twice with a few days in between tates, but now I've read some things saying that you shouldn't tate trinitrons (which the OEV-143 is) as it can damage the shadow mask, and that you can get permanent distortion if you don't unplug the monitor and wait before and after rotations (I left it plugged in and there was very little delay between rotation and power on/off). I don't think I'll be tating my monitor again given how rare these are, but any experts out there know how likely it is to damage these trinitron pvms tating them? If I don't notice any apparent problems am I in the clear?

[ldeveraux]

What in the world is tate? I've seen it mentioned countless times and no limit to my googling has ever given me a clue what it means!

[Fudoh]

really, even after being on this very board to 3 years now ?

Yoko and tate are horizontal and vertical in japanese and refer to the orientation of the screen in regard to video games and shmups in particular.

[ldeveraux]

really, even after being on this very board to 3 years now ?

Yoko and tate are horizontal and vertical in japanese and refer to the orientation of the screen in regard to video games and shmups in particular.

Yes, nobody explained it and I never asked until now. While Google Translate disagrees slightly with your explanation, it's the best I've gotten so far. So I'll take it, thanks!
https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&t ... =translate

[fernan1234]

Yes, nobody explained it and I never asked until now. Sorry for the inconvenience? While Google Translate disagrees with your explanation, it's the best I've gotten so far.
https://translate.google.com/?sl=auto&t ... =translate

Those are just synonyms, of a slightly more formal tone. Feed these into Google Translate: 縦 (tate) 横 (yoko), and you'll see what you get. It'll show you how they're pronounced too.
Anyway, I'm sure you didn't inconvenience anyone, it is just indeed surprising since it's such a fundamental concept in shmups.

[NewSchoolBoxer]

I dumped tate mode trinitron into YouTube and found plenty videos of > 20" Trinitrons and PVMs in tate mode. Seems it can be done safely. I got into CRT scene in 2019 and I paid too much for my PVM to ever risk rotating it though. I have an LCD monitor with analog inputs and a Switch so I take the easy way out.

As for possible source of banding and other distortion, look at a picture or video of a CRT's B+ board. Plenty of capacitors and resistors that could come loose by turning them sideways or from greater vibrations by not resting on the base. Device has also been subject to some form of oxidation and moisture degradation for 20-30 years.

What in the world is tate? I've seen it mentioned countless times and no limit to my googling has ever given me a clue what it means!

I'm glad you asked. I stuck to Hardware section for a year before reading a shmup review thread that mentioned tate assuming I knew what it was. I had kind of a hard time searching and figuring out the meaning. You look at Switch Flip Grip accessory description and tate is nowhere to be seen. An Etsy seller with a product called "3D Printed Adjustable Nintendo Switch Vertical Controller Mount" also doesn't use the term. Sellers are smart enough not to use language their biggest audience won't understand.

I get using yoko, tate, 1cc, JHA, etc. in shmup video content for a niche audience. If I write about electronics filters, I'm not explaining what fifth-order LPF means. I just think that shooting game content could be a little more accessible. /rant

[fernan1234]

I get using yoko, tate, 1cc, JHA, etc. in shmup video content for a niche audience. If I write about electronics filters, I'm not explaining what fifth-order LPF means. I just think that shooting game content could be a little more accessible. /rant

I doubt the term came into use outside of Japanese due to pedantry or the like, rather it was simply borrowed because it's actually used by the games themselves or the people who made/played them in Japan (where virtually all classic shmups were made), you often find it used in the original game instructions, dip switch settings, etc. Not really different than any other loanword that sticks due to the specificity of the context from which it originates. It's just more obscure than something like umami, sushi, karaoke, anime, manga, etc. because it's a relatively niche gaming genre intersecting with the now niche practice of using CRTs.

[ldeveraux]

Silly me, I've just been saying horizontal and vertical, because everybody understands that. Way to keep it simple, niche scene.

[fernan1234]

Although it kinda depends on who you're talking to, if you talk about playing a game vertically or rotating a display most people will wonder why you'd do that, perhaps as some whacky way to make the game more difficult for extra challenge or something. And if you talk about horizontal they'll just say, "duh!"

More on topic, I've never heard of aperture grill tubes being more vulnerable to rotation in particular. Frequently rotating it may be a different story though, but I'd sooner suspect an aging or loose component as NewSchoolBoxer suggested.

[Ed Oscuro]

I wouldn't be too worried about the aperture grille (to be pedantic, it's NOT a shadow mask, but we know what you mean) of a little 14 inch set. Internal PCBs should be good in this orientation, cooling vents seem good (even if one is blocked off while rotated). Can't see any reason why this would be dangerous.

Did you try degaussing the screen when you rotated it? That will probably fix the color problem. You may need to degauss the set whenever you change its orientation.

[parodius]

Tried ro-tate-ing my PVM-14L2 clockwise recently, the upper right corner (normally upper left when horizontal) became discolored.
No degaussing helped, I left it a few hours and it was still the same, so I put it back in horizontal position and it went back to normal.
Need to try rotating it the other way.

[SavagePencil]

You may need a degaussing coil to work that out.

[fernan1234]

I'd try turning the monitor to face different directions, if possible.

[Josh128]

The discoloration is most likely just due to the set now having a different polarization in relation to the earths magnetic field, nothing else. When in tate mode, and powered on with a good test or pattern screen (white or whatever), rotate the set slowly between N,E,S,W and you will likely see the patches move,disappear, reappear depending on which direction the screen is facing. Worst case, your chosen direction will have discoloration and you may need to make purity adjustments.

[emmeka]

Anyone tried tate-ing a Trinitron KV FV310? I'm a bit worried to try it myself.