HD-SDI Modding Blu Ray Player

[papageno1791]

Hey guys I am looking to HD-SDI mod Blu-Ray player. I have my personal reasons for doing so but mostly because I want to and do not want to deal with adaptors. If anybody could either sell me an HD-SDI Blu-Ray player or has a kit for one that would be amazing.

Other than that, I have some of my findings in HD-SDI Modding a Blu-Ray player. So what I initially did was to find out which blu-ray players would make great candidates to be HD-SDI modded. This was done through looking at old AVS forum posts and finding a defunct website that used to sell these mods. I used Internet archive to arrive at this website (https://web.archive.org/web/20090323053 ... hdsdi.html) and found that one could SDI mod a Sony BDP-S500. Luckily I have one, so I look up the service manual for this puppy. Now I arrive at the block diagram. The block diagram clearly shows on page 43 that the BD processor sends out a 24 bit signal that goes to a "gate array" then that array sends another 24 bit signal to the HDMI transmitter. I try to look further into the service manual but out of all the PCB boards that are clearly labeld and have a diagram, the main processing board is not fully explained in the service guide. So the only thing left to do is open my unit up.

After I open up my unit, I find several IC. There are three of them that are of main interest is the Sigma Designs SMP8634LF, Pioneer PE5635A, and the Silicon Image Sil9134CTU. So the first thing I look into is how the SMP8634LF and the Pioneer PE5635A is connected together. This leads me to the PDB95FD service manual which on page 56 shows how those two processors are connected. Sure enough it seems that the video connects through some 24 bit data bus with separate vertical and horizontal sync indicated from the VP_VS_in and the VP_HS_in of pins 82 and 83. So then next I need to peruse how I get the 24 bit data video signal. This comes out from the SMP8634LF. I look at its 494 page datasheet and see that on page 301 section 8.4.13.6, you see different Digital Video Output. It claims that this video processor can ouptut a variety of different bit formats but the one that it most likely uses is the 24 bit one. As stated in the datasheet, it can output 24 bit RGB or 24 bit 4:4:4 YCbCr. Now my new question is, which one is it. And this is where I put myself into the shoes of Sony engineer. If I am thinking like a Sony Engineer, it would make sense to output RGB since this device would not only be sold in the US but also in Europe. It is easier to the calculation from RGB to YCbCr than to do the reverse with chroma resampling. So to confirm this hypothesis, I had to know what the other two chips are doing to get the full idea on what kind of signal they are sending.

Now for the Pioneer PE5635A, I could not find a datasheet on it but some kind of reseller of the part. So whatever, I can still reference the PDB95FD service manual. Same goes for the Sil9134CTU, but for the Sil9134CTU, I did find a product brouchure even though it is not some kind of in depth manual. Now in this brochure that is 7 pages I find that the digital video interface supports 24 bit RGB and 4:4:4 YCbCr. The interesting part is that it specifically mentions a YCbCr to RGB color space converter as well as being an HDMI transmitter. This leads me to believe that the SMP8634LF is output YCbCr since the brouchure also states "An integrated color-space converter allows direct connection to all major MPEG decoders, including those that provide only an ITU.656 output." and since Blu-Rays and DVDs are encoded into an Mpeg format, it can be thought that the 24 bit output is YCbCr. My only counter to this is that there are seperate pins for Vertical and Horizontal sync. This leads me to believe that the 24 bit signal is NOT YCbCr since YCbCr usually has sync embedded into the signal already. So unless someone can provide a counter-theory, I believe that the 24-Bit plus the H-Sync and V-Sync is RGB.

Now that I have identified the plan of attack on where to extract the RGB signals, what is my next step? I try to find any HD-SDI searlizers but no luck in finding an IC to convert this signal into HD-SDI. Can anybody help me accomplish my dream of getting HD-SDI out of my poor Sony BDPS-500? It has been done before so we can do it again. This is project is important for the preservation of this kind of modification knowledge.

[SCARTicus]

What is this crap? This isn't even tangentially related to video games. Get out of here with this shit.

[papageno1791]

What do you mean? Ever heard of games on DVD? Like those menus with mini games in them. This would be a great solution to capture high quality footage direct from the MPEG encoder.

[Guspaz]

If your goal is just to capture the unadulterated signal, why would you need to get something other than HDMI? In fact, a lot of HD-SDI gear is only going to support 4:2:2 anyhow, while you should be able to capture RGB or 4:4:4 over HDMI without issue. If you need HD-SDI compatibility to get the signal into a display that doesn't support HDMI (like a PVM for example), then I can't see any advantage to a native SDI output compared to an HDMI to SDI converter.

You could try waiting for a JVC SR-HD2500 to show up on eBay, since it has SDI output and can play commercial discs.

[papageno1791]

DVD is not encoded in 4:4:4 RGB but is encoded in 4:2:2 YCbCr. As mentioned in my assessment above there is a seperate chip that does chroma resampling and color space conversion from 4:2:2->4:4:4. Another reason why HDMI -> SDI is not great is macrovision protection on DVD as well as HDCP. The point of this mod is not only to get unadulterated signals but to find once lost knowledge. Aren't you curious on how it was done? I think it would be cool to find out.

[papageno1791]

Regarding the JVC SR-HD2500, its says that it is a blu-ray recorder. Are you sure it can play commercial disks over HD-SDI?

[Fudoh]

DVD and BD are encoded in 4:2:0. 4:2:2 is what you get right after the decoder.

SDI was great during the DVD heydays, but HD-SDI never got a grip in the home theater market. Installs were complicated and expensive and the flood of easily available HDCP decrypters were the final nail in the coffin.

I would make the argument for HD-SDI if you really want to utilize a HD-SDI display, but for anything else going HDMI is so much easier indeed.

[HDgaming42]

DVD and BD are encoded in 4:2:0. 4:2:2 is what you get right after the decoder.

SDI was great during the DVD heydays, but HD-SDI never got a grip in the home theater market. Installs were complicated and expensive and the flood of easily available HDCP decrypters were the final nail in the coffin.

I would make the argument for HD-SDI if you really want to utilize a HD-SDI display, but for anything else going HDMI is so much easier indeed.

I happen to agree this is a rabbit hole likely not worth pursuing, and Fudoh provided a reasonable, rational and respectful response.

What is this crap? This isn't even tangentially related to video games. Get out of here with this shit.

Why respond like this? Why play gate-keeper when we're already a niche within a niche? With HD-SDI being what it is, and with other forums now defunct (assembler for instance) what's the harm in asking over here? Why bother responding at all--just ignore it and move on. Who made you the arbiter of the content here?

[Unseen]

Regarding the JVC SR-HD2500, its says that it is a blu-ray recorder. Are you sure it can play commercial disks over HD-SDI?

According to a german spec sheet it can not play any copy protected material over SDI, so commercial discs are basically out.

[Guspaz]

DVD is not encoded in 4:4:4 RGB but is encoded in 4:2:2 YCbCr. As mentioned in my assessment above there is a seperate chip that does chroma resampling and color space conversion from 4:2:2->4:4:4.

It's 4:2:0, as Fudoh already pointed out, so you're already getting a resampling if you're grabbing 4:2:2. You can output to 4:2:2 over HDMI if you wanted to (if the player supported it), but at that point, but nobody captures a DVD or bluray, they just rip it and get the raw video files.

Another reason why HDMI -> SDI is not great is macrovision protection on DVD as well as HDCP.

This can easily be stripped, but again, why would you? Buy a copy of AnyDVD HD and put the disc into your PC and copy the raw original video files, even less modified than the chroma upsampled copy you'd get over HD-SDI.

The point of this mod is not only to get unadulterated signals but to find once lost knowledge. Aren't you curious on how it was done? I think it would be cool to find out.

What lost knowledge? Modding a blu ray player for HD-SDI was never useful knowledge, because HDMI-to-HD-SDI converters existed that would preserve the exact original signal with no loss, so there was no functional difference to having native HD-SDI.

[papageno1791]

DVD and BD are encoded in 4:2:0. 4:2:2 is what you get right after the decoder.

SDI was great during the DVD heydays, but HD-SDI never got a grip in the home theater market. Installs were complicated and expensive and the flood of easily available HDCP decrypters were the final nail in the coffin.

I would make the argument for HD-SDI if you really want to utilize a HD-SDI display, but for anything else going HDMI is so much easier indeed.

Yes SD-SDI mod is great for DVDs, in fact last week I designed a SD-SDI board for my DVD player based off the datasheet and now have it installed. What I really want is to preserve the knowledge on how they did the HD-SDI mods. So I really want to know either what kind of chip is used or if an FPGA was used instead. The knowledge is what is interesting. And I have a Sony BVM that accepts HD-SDI so that is a bonus for me.

[papageno1791]

Does anyone at least know somebody who has an HD-SDI modded blu ray player?

[NewSchoolBoxer]

I check SDI equipment specs and prices every now and then since my PVM takes SD-SDI and if the analog RGB side of it fails, perhaps I go Blackmagic shopping. I wasn't aware of HD-SDI on PVMs but sure enough the BVM-A Series manual lists the BKM-62HS as supporting 4:4:4 Dual Link / Y PB PR / GBR at 1080i and 720p. That said, I somewhat share SCARTicus' sentiment for asking about Blu Ray modding in a tangential video game forum to a format no one in video gaming uses.

Trying to follow the conversation, I agree with Guspaz in that I don't see how modding a Blu Ray player to output 4:2:2 YCbCr over HD-SDI is better than 4:2:2 YCbCr over HDMI, unless you want to run the digital cable a crazy long distance. Fudoh is right that Blu Ray is encoded at 4:2:0 through 4K. Just mess with the video in its native HDMI and convert to SDI before the BVM.

I think Guspaz has the real solution to rip the DVD inserted in a computer instead. It doesn't give you the flexibility of a mod but you have all day to try upsampling in software that you can then stream.