240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Find

[Josh128]

Yes, its 480p out w/ full scanlines from the GBS. Using the component output doesnt add any lag vs HDMI, what changes lag is the resolution you feed the set. As you can see in the pictures below, straight 480i in on the HDMI port shows 48ms of lag, while sending TS 480i>HDMI to VGA converter>GBS-C>720p component in on the set only shows 14.7ms of lag, which is the same as 480p or 720p fed directly into the HDMI port from the TS. Actually, in these photos, the long converter chain into component can sometimes be faster than direct to HDMI, but its margin of error stuff. 1080i in, once you change the HDPT setting noted earlier in this thread, is a zero lag mode. Its why I hoping for the mode or a progressive variant of the mode to be implemented into the RT5X Pro.

[BazookaBen]

How does the lag change when you use the 16:9 mode or the zoom modes?

[incrediblehark]

I believe these were at 0% (which in GBS-C is full) scanlines. Yeah, it did look really good in person too. These sets have massive potential, no pun intended.

I thought you were using the GBS-C for your Ghouls N Ghosts pictures. What were you using?

I'm using an OSSC, I was a little late to the game and just read about the GBS-C last month, and now figure I'll hold off and get one of the new scalers when the time comes.

One thing of note on these TVs is resolution switching is brutal. If you have a scaler that causes a resync it takes longer to get a picture back than on a lot of flat panel televisions I own.

I measured (nothing special, just a stopwatch) about 2.5 seconds on resolution change from 240p-480i and back on the OSSC when I was testing with Alundra 2 menu screen. Interesting for me was on OSSC with bob+alternating scanlines, 480i looked exactly like my FV310 did, including the combing i noticed during motion. Had to switch to passthrough while playing VF2 on Saturn.

I'm waiting on a VGA to DVI adapter, but just got one of those cheap Chinese HDMI -> Component boxes in the mail today. Played some Zelda BOTW in 720p on it, and looked pretty amazing as well. I like that on this TV 16:9 is still about a 36" screen.

hoagtech, looking forward to seeing your set!

[Josh128]

Yeah, bob de-int + 0% scanlines on the GBS-C on Sonic 2 in the 2 player mode looked just like what you see on a 15KHz TV. Pretty cool stuff. As far as res switching, its pretty pointless IMO because on their own, these sets are not worth a damn for 240p/480i gaming. Using a modern scaler like the GBS-C or RT 5X, you will never change output resolutions, so source switching is seamless.

Ben, I didnt think to try to switch between 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratios or zooms while checking with Time Sleuth. Will check later.

[Hoagtech]

I finally got around to unloading and testing my Trinitron KV-32HS510 in my shop.

I connected it to the OSSC at 2x through DVI.

I left it uncalibrated and was impressed to say the least with the results from Bloodlines.










For some reason the "Video 7" OSD will not go away...

Then I did a quick test with VGA rez from the 360 and loved the colorful ,sharp image coming the 480p source. I's surprised the VGA mode on 360 supports XGA resolution but not 540p or 1080i through VGA. If I remember right the Component cables had a 1080i option.



The Extron 301 arrived so I still need to figure out to create my custom resolution of 480p inside a 540p window through it in the future.

I also have the Extron rxi 203 to mess around with decreasing brightness and turning up peak to mess around with bloom on full scanlines to mitigate the brightness drop.

[Josh128]

Thats looking pretty good. Curious to see how you make out with the Extron 540p mode. Im still waiting for Mike to create a mode on the 5X. He said he intends on doing it. Fingers crossed he can get it to work.

[Fudoh]

The Extron 301 arrived so I still need to figure out to create my custom resolution of 480p inside a 540p window through it in the future.

that works through an EDID bank import on the PC control software. You basically create an EDID file with your custom resolution first and then import it into the control program.

[BazookaBen]

that works through an EDID bank import on the PC control software. You basically create an EDID file with your custom resolution first and then import it into the control program.

Custom Resolution Utility from Toasty X would definitely be the easiest, most intuitive way to do this.

[Fudoh]

never tried that. And you can create EDID bank files with it that the Extron control program let's you import ?

[BazookaBen]

never tried that. And you can create EDID bank files with it that the Extron control program let's you import ?

It creates EDID files in the universal .BIN format that you find on monitors. So I'm just assuming that's the same format the Extron 301 uses.

In my case, I've created BIN files with CRU that I exported to a Dr. HDMI, and then hooked that up to an Extron 101v that copied the EDID through the DDC. I used a HDMI>DVI, then a DVI>VGA adapter to achieve that last part.

[Hoagtech]

Right on. I went to plug the 301 and noticed the Phoenix PSU was missing.

Another few days of waiting for the 12v 1A..

[incrediblehark]

Looks really nice! I figured there would be at least some issues with it being in the dump but that picture looks great so far! Also, what scanline settings are you using for the OSSC?

I've been waiting for a restock on the 5x and hoping for a 540p mode, but I may pick up an extron and try that out too. Looking forward to seeing your results!

As for the "Video 7" I think you need to press the display button on the remote as the only way to get it to disappear. I think thats how it was with my FV-310 when I had it.

[parodius]

Right on. I went to plug the 301 and noticed the Phoenix PSU was missing.

Another few days of waiting for the 12v 1A..

Which one did you order?

[HDgaming42]

never tried that. And you can create EDID bank files with it that the Extron control program let's you import ?

It creates EDID files in the universal .BIN format that you find on monitors. So I'm just assuming that's the same format the Extron 301 uses.

In my case, I've created BIN files with CRU that I exported to a Dr. HDMI, and then hooked that up to an Extron 101v that copied the EDID through the DDC. I used a HDMI>DVI, then a DVI>VGA adapter to achieve that last part.

OMG, I wonder if this method could be used to create a custom 240p resolution for the 301 HD. or maybe a "super resolution" that would then survive HDMI to RGBHV conversion via a Tendak or similar unit!

[Fudoh]

OMG, I wonder if this method could be used to create a custom 240p resolution for the 301 HD. or maybe a "super resolution" that would then survive HDMI to RGBHV conversion via a Tendak or similar unit!

what would be the use case for that?

[HDgaming42]

OMG, I wonder if this method could be used to create a custom 240p resolution for the 301 HD. or maybe a "super resolution" that would then survive HDMI to RGBHV conversion via a Tendak or similar unit!

what would be the use case for that?

Nothing for HDCRTs, but as an alternative to the emotia/Corio2/GBS-C downscaling methods.

I sold off my Emotia a while back and the GBS-C can't downscale anything beyond 480p. I already use the 301 HD to downscale HD for the GBS-C--it would be nice to just skip it entirely and stay within a 4:4:4 processing pipeline.

I have a line on a reasonably priced Corio2, but the guy routinely goes dark for months on end. And it turns out my VP30 can't get the dotclock down low enough for true 240p. Bugs me I have so much gear and yet no "all-in-one" solution. Maybe the PixelFX Morph will be that unit, but for now I'd love to explore what I already own.

[Josh128]

Cant the 5X Pro downscale greater than 480p resolutions? Im almost positive it can downscale at least to 720p.

[Fudoh]

you really need to get a 5X

Nothing for HDCRTs, but as an alternative to the emotia/Corio2/GBS-C downscaling methods.

I already don't find HD to ED downscaling too hot on the Extron, so I doubt you'd get any great results with going even further.

[BazookaBen]

Not to mention that a lot of games that people are trying to downscale are also available on PC, where you could just CRT Emudriver to play the game at native resolution.

[HDgaming42]

you really need to get a 5X

Nothing for HDCRTs, but as an alternative to the emotia/Corio2/GBS-C downscaling methods.

I already don't find HD to ED downscaling too hot on the Extron, so I doubt you'd get any great results with going even further.

Really? That's interesting. I have an EDGE I could hook up for that task. I don't suppose you'd think it would perform better at downscaling than the extron?

Not to mention that a lot of games that people are trying to downscale are also available on PC, where you could just CRT Emudriver to play the game at native resolution.

I actually have a PC set up for this but for some reason it routinely "collapses" in that 15kHz often suddenly doesn't work for no discernible reason. Haven't taken the time to fix it in a while as I primarily use it to play Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder.

Might be the built-in AMD GFX card I'm using...

[KPackratt2k]

Mind if I ask how you've managed to pick this TV out of an e-waste dump without breaking the law/getting caught? Where I live in (King County/Seattle), it is forbidden to dumpster dive at the e-waste centers, so once old electronics get dropped off, they're done for. Believe me, I've tried talking my parents into letting me dumpster dive for old electronics and they wouldn't budge. It's a real shame too, because old CRT TVs are getting difficult to find these days. I see free flat screens more often than I see free CRTs on my local Craigslist, and most of the time when I see CRTs, they're insanely expensive, especially Sony Trinitrons (I once saw a 13-inch Trinitron sell for $120, and I even saw a large XBR listed for $500, it's nuts).

[Hoagtech]

Mind if I ask how you've managed to pick this TV out of an e-waste dump without breaking the law/getting caught? Where I live in (King County/Seattle), it is forbidden to dumpster dive at the e-waste centers, so once old electronics get dropped off, they're done for. Believe me, I've tried talking my parents into letting me dumpster dive for old electronics and they wouldn't budge. It's a real shame too, because old CRT TVs are getting difficult to find these days. I see free flat screens more often than I see free CRTs on my local Craigslist, and most of the time when I see CRTs, they're insanely expensive, especially Sony Trinitrons (I once saw a 13-inch Trinitron sell for $120, and I even saw a large XBR listed for $500, it's nuts).

Not at all. I drive outside the big city to a small town where I know the owners. As long I take and never drop, and clean up after my self. he lets me have whatever I want. I started collecting arcade donor tubes and that turned into hooking up my family friends with Component and DVI sets for RGB converters.

Right on. I went to plug the 301 and noticed the Phoenix PSU was missing.



Another few days of waiting for the 12v 1A..

Which one did you order?

I ordered the Extron 12V 1A. The ends dont look right but I'll make it work..

Looks really nice! I figured there would be at least some issues with it being in the dump but that picture looks great so far! Also, what scanline settings are you using for the OSSC?

I've been waiting for a restock on the 5x and hoping for a 540p mode, but I may pick up an extron and try that out too. Looking forward to seeing your results!

As for the "Video 7" I think you need to press the display button on the remote as the only way to get it to disappear. I think thats how it was with my FV-310 when I had it.

The Display button worked a charm. I'm using 2x with full scanlines..

On another note, my 240p through 2x looks awesome, but now I'm having issues with 480p VGA output from Xbox 360 going into OSSC.

Here's my Genesis scanlines: (click for full rez)




On eof my favorite uses for OSSC is playing Metal Slug 7 (XX) in 480p mode with scanlines.. Even though the scanlines are proper in 240p at 2x. They are not even in a VGA 480p Image. I'm hoping the Extron can mitigate this.. I'm also going to try using component cables for 360 but don't have them handy.

[Josh128]

My PC wont open your links, says they are hazardous and wont let me bypass, whether Firefox or Edge.

[Hoagtech]

My PC wont open your links, says they are hazardous and wont let me bypass, whether Firefox or Edge.

Try Editing your firewall restrictions. I have been using img.bb since photobucket went down and they work great and are highly regarded.

But just for you josh. Here's the full size pics in the spoiler (click the spoiler)

Spoiler

[incrediblehark]

Last one more concerning - I'm getting the 6 flashing lights at power on. Manual states its Low +B overcurrent. Either +5 line is overloaded, +5 line is shorted, or IC504 is faulty (I think this was a common issue with this model). Is this definitely my TV, or could it be an issue with something else like the wiring in my house, etc? Assuming there's no voltage setting in the service menu to correct this but I'm hoping someone reading this can give me some advice on troubleshooting that doesn't involve opening up this set.

Just wanted to update on this for anyone following this thread, or anyone who might encounter the issue I was having... today I removed my cheap old GE surge protector and set up a Furman PST-8 Power Conditioner. Just in early testing but seems to have resolved my overcurrent problems. I have been able to repeatedly turn off/on the tv without the 6 blinking light error.

[Josh128]

Curiously, my HS420 was shutting off on its own the other day when I tested the new firmware, and I was using a Cyberpower surge protector/strip that I had never used before on it. Wonder if that was causing the issue? I'll have to try a different way to power up when my second Portta DAC comes in and I re-test.

[incrediblehark]

Was going to post this in the 5x thread, but seemed more appropriate here.

I've been messing around with my service menu and have found that section 2170P-4 in the menu has a setting called IDSW. This forces a certain resolution, such as FULL, FULL HD, VC 1080i, VC 960i. You can use this to take the 540p signal and force it to a FULL or FULL HD resolution. FULL HD for me looked to be closer match in terms of aspect ratio. But when you do this you don't need to use the JUMP setting as you will get full vertical height. I believe this saves per input resolution, but would be interested in further testing. I'm thinking if used this way the 540p input would switch to the adjusted resolution on the tv when in that mode and revert back when a 480p or 720p signal is displayed. Unfortunately no setting I tried gave me a picture that didn't flicker with scanlines on the retrotink 5x.

Josh - If you ever get a chance could you try out your HDMI input again and change the IDSW setting? Based on your pictures it appears to be set at 960i and I'm curious if setting it to FULL or FULL HD will give you proper scanline spacing. I could be way off on the track here so I apologize in advance if this is not the case.

EDIT: Nevermind... I don't think the IDSW setting saves the source, it just forces a resolution. I saved my settings in the service menu, and turned the tv off, when I turned it back on the setting had reverted.

[BazookaBen]

Hey guys I was rummaging around on my PC today and found an old PDF from AVSforum about image processing on Sony sets.

And it's still being hosted by AVSForum: https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/im ... pdf.23127/

Is any of this relevant to what we're talking about here? I haven't sat to down to read through it yet, just found it a few minutes ago.

[incrediblehark]

Awesome find! Just read through it, it looks like a very comprehensive guide on setting up image processing for sony hd sets. What stood out for me is that MIDE are like stored presets and they appear to be adjusted independent to input and source resolution. I feel like this does connect in a way. Another thing I find interesting is I have read about adjusting in the service menu, setting MIDE to 63 but with no real explanation why. After reading from what I can understand, at the end the author describes MID enhancement free setting of MIDE at 63 and Sharpness slider 12. So the reason why 63 is suggested is that it bypasses the MID enhancements? I do want to try out their settings though to see how they compare. Need to also test out the gamma settings, when i set the RT5X to 480p and full scanlines, it was pretty dark, so i adjusted GAMM to 1 or 2 and brightened the picture, but I think this guide you posted will give me better results.


I also just found this on AVSForum, not sure if posting links to other forums is allowed, if not I will remove:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-so ... es.531494/

Probably nothing new to most. I haven't gone through much yet, but looks like a wealth of information on making adjustments, just scrolling down I saw some focus adjustments that can be made in service menu I may try out when I have some quiet time to myself. Looks like there's some links on the page that have service menu codes, but also with notes to explain certain settings which could be very useful.

[PearlJammzz]

Chriz2600 on the classic gaming Discord this morning:

chriz2600 — Today at 3:18 AM
FYI, I just successfully tested 540p output on N64Digital using a custom modeline. Should be available on PS1Digital too once we found the time to port the firmware to PS1Digital.