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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Wega KV-32HS510 Dump Find
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:39 pm 


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Have an interesting update regarding the 480p scaling on the 36HS420. Was able to spend some time in my *under construction* workshop yesterday, which currently has no A/C, here in south Louisiana, and got some really awesome results with my GBS-C using the component out capability into the set. Before I knew it, I was sweating like a pig, but I didnt care, I was having too much fun! :mrgreen:

So strangely enough, 480p into the component inputs of the set is perfect, with no uneven scaling like I saw in the 480p HDMI input. I didnt change any settings. The set looked fabulous, like a huge VGA monitor. Turns out the set has pretty damned good geometry and convergence (I previously tweaked geo in the SM). Its good enough in fact, that I had crazy thoughts go through my head about swapping out the 36" SD Trin Im currently using in my house. Jury is still out on that, but if Mike comes through with a zero lag output mode on the 5X that works on this thing, its probably going to happen.

As far as the GBS-C, it does indeed seem to have a bit of a "blue push" that has been discussed earlier on the GBS-C thread. Blues just jump out at you, and Arthur on GnG has a blueish component to his armor on grays that he doesnt have normally. This could probably be offset with some monitor tweaking, but regardless, it still looks great. I just think that comparing the 5X Pro and the GBS it becomes obvious that the colors are more accurate coming out of the Pro, and another reason why I crave a working mode out of it. *Let's go, Mike! :P *

I was not able to play with the PC out to the TV as I had wasted enough of my afternoon fiddling with the GBS-C, but someday I would like to try again. Heres some pics from the GBS-C component out to the set.

Image
https://i.imgur.com/YtVENoO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lUN4GMl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/usQOS30.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zKFL8cs.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Kueu2ul.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oTkKPAQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/arQhZVg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1Wp7HgI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BubM9uq.jpg

Little comparison between my 17" VGA monitor and the HS-420, both fed by GBS-C. Note the HS-420 shots are over exposed, cell phone shots vs a DLSR for the VGA shots, but you get the gist.

https://i.imgur.com/fYOHNGS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UlK4ylk.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Wega KV-32HS510 Dump Find
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:41 pm 


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Awesome pics! The tv looks really good! Glad to hear you had success with the component input, and without any extra tweaking. What are your scanline settings? I don't have a GBS-Control but your settings look just right to me. Waiting on an adapter so I can test out my current gen systems on this too.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Wega KV-32HS510 Dump Find
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:54 pm 


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I believe these were at 0% (which in GBS-C is full) scanlines. Yeah, it did look really good in person too. These sets have massive potential, no pun intended.

I thought you were using the GBS-C for your Ghouls N Ghosts pictures. What were you using?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Wega KV-32HS510 Dump Find
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:21 pm 



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Josh128 wrote:
Have an interesting update regarding the 480p scaling on the 36HS420. Was able to spend some time in my *under construction* workshop yesterday, which currently has no A/C, here in south Louisiana, and got some really awesome results with my GBS-C using the component out capability into the set. Before I knew it, I was sweating like a pig, but I didnt care, I was having too much fun! :mrgreen:

So strangely enough, 480p into the component inputs of the set is perfect, with no uneven scaling like I saw in the 480p HDMI input. I didnt change any settings. The set looked fabulous, like a huge VGA monitor. Turns out the set has pretty damned good geometry and convergence (I previously tweaked geo in the SM). Its good enough in fact, that I had crazy thoughts go through my head about swapping out the 36" SD Trin Im currently using in my house. Jury is still out on that, but if Mike comes through with a zero lag output mode on the 5X that works on this thing, its probably going to happen.

As far as the GBS-C, it does indeed seem to have a bit of a "blue push" that has been discussed earlier on the GBS-C thread. Blues just jump out at you, and Arthur on GnG has a blueish component to his armor on grays that he doesnt have normally. This could probably be offset with some monitor tweaking, but regardless, it still looks great. I just think that comparing the 5X Pro and the GBS it becomes obvious that the colors are more accurate coming out of the Pro, and another reason why I crave a working mode out of it. *Let's go, Mike! :P *

I was not able to play with the PC out to the TV as I had wasted enough of my afternoon fiddling with the GBS-C, but someday I would like to try again. Heres some pics from the GBS-C component out to the set.

Image
https://i.imgur.com/YtVENoO.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/lUN4GMl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/usQOS30.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zKFL8cs.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Kueu2ul.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oTkKPAQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/arQhZVg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/1Wp7HgI.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BubM9uq.jpg

Little comparison between my 17" VGA monitor and the HS-420, both fed by GBS-C. Note the HS-420 shots are over exposed, cell phone shots vs a DLSR for the VGA shots, but you get the gist.

https://i.imgur.com/fYOHNGS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/UlK4ylk.jpg


So those screen shots are 480p fed via component and scanlines set at 100% opacity? It looks pretty good!

From what I gathered in my testing (I swear I posted this up somewhere but maybe not) you get more lag going through component almost always. But it's because you go analog -> digital -> analog on these sets. If you go straight into HDMI then you skip one step of that. That step, however, seems to be correcting 480p going into the TV. I have a hs420 I should try and see if I get the same issues through HDMI.

One thing of note on these TVs is resolution switching is brutal. If you have a scaler that causes a resync it takes longer to get a picture back than on a lot of flat panel televisions I own. That said, however, the 5x could always buffer than and it wouldn't be too bad. Feeding 540p into the HDMI may actually give a properly scaled image as well.

I'll be keeping an eye on this. Interesting stuff!


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Wega KV-32HS510 Dump Find
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:28 pm 


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Yes, its 480p out w/ full scanlines from the GBS. Using the component output doesnt add any lag vs HDMI, what changes lag is the resolution you feed the set. As you can see in the pictures below, straight 480i in on the HDMI port shows 48ms of lag, while sending TS 480i>HDMI to VGA converter>GBS-C>720p component in on the set only shows 14.7ms of lag, which is the same as 480p or 720p fed directly into the HDMI port from the TS. Actually, in these photos, the long converter chain into component can sometimes be faster than direct to HDMI, but its margin of error stuff. 1080i in, once you change the HDPT setting noted earlier in this thread, is a zero lag mode. Its why I hoping for the mode or a progressive variant of the mode to be implemented into the RT5X Pro.

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Wega KV-32HS510 Dump Find
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:32 pm 


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How does the lag change when you use the 16:9 mode or the zoom modes?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Wega KV-32HS510 Dump Find
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:48 am 


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Josh128 wrote:
I believe these were at 0% (which in GBS-C is full) scanlines. Yeah, it did look really good in person too. These sets have massive potential, no pun intended.

I thought you were using the GBS-C for your Ghouls N Ghosts pictures. What were you using?


I'm using an OSSC, I was a little late to the game and just read about the GBS-C last month, and now figure I'll hold off and get one of the new scalers when the time comes.

Quote:
One thing of note on these TVs is resolution switching is brutal. If you have a scaler that causes a resync it takes longer to get a picture back than on a lot of flat panel televisions I own.


I measured (nothing special, just a stopwatch) about 2.5 seconds on resolution change from 240p-480i and back on the OSSC when I was testing with Alundra 2 menu screen. Interesting for me was on OSSC with bob+alternating scanlines, 480i looked exactly like my FV310 did, including the combing i noticed during motion. Had to switch to passthrough while playing VF2 on Saturn.

I'm waiting on a VGA to DVI adapter, but just got one of those cheap Chinese HDMI -> Component boxes in the mail today. Played some Zelda BOTW in 720p on it, and looked pretty amazing as well. I like that on this TV 16:9 is still about a 36" screen.

hoagtech, looking forward to seeing your set!


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Wega KV-32HS510 Dump Find
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:59 am 


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Yeah, bob de-int + 0% scanlines on the GBS-C on Sonic 2 in the 2 player mode looked just like what you see on a 15KHz TV. Pretty cool stuff. As far as res switching, its pretty pointless IMO because on their own, these sets are not worth a damn for 240p/480i gaming. Using a modern scaler like the GBS-C or RT 5X, you will never change output resolutions, so source switching is seamless.

Ben, I didnt think to try to switch between 16:9 and 4:3 aspect ratios or zooms while checking with Time Sleuth. Will check later.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 Dump Find
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 3:58 am 


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I finally got around to unloading and testing my Trinitron KV-32HS510 in my shop.

I connected it to the OSSC at 2x through DVI.

I left it uncalibrated and was impressed to say the least with the results from Bloodlines.


Image

Image

Image

Image

For some reason the "Video 7" OSD will not go away...

Then I did a quick test with VGA rez from the 360 and loved the colorful ,sharp image coming the 480p source. I's surprised the VGA mode on 360 supports XGA resolution but not 540p or 1080i through VGA. If I remember right the Component cables had a 1080i option.

Image

The Extron 301 arrived so I still need to figure out to create my custom resolution of 480p inside a 540p window through it in the future.

I also have the Extron rxi 203 to mess around with decreasing brightness and turning up peak to mess around with bloom on full scanlines to mitigate the brightness drop.
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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:27 pm 


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Thats looking pretty good. Curious to see how you make out with the Extron 540p mode. Im still waiting for Mike to create a mode on the 5X. He said he intends on doing it. Fingers crossed he can get it to work.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 6:42 pm 


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Quote:
The Extron 301 arrived so I still need to figure out to create my custom resolution of 480p inside a 540p window through it in the future.

that works through an EDID bank import on the PC control software. You basically create an EDID file with your custom resolution first and then import it into the control program.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:21 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
that works through an EDID bank import on the PC control software. You basically create an EDID file with your custom resolution first and then import it into the control program.


Custom Resolution Utility from Toasty X would definitely be the easiest, most intuitive way to do this.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:23 pm 


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never tried that. And you can create EDID bank files with it that the Extron control program let's you import ?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:49 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
never tried that. And you can create EDID bank files with it that the Extron control program let's you import ?


It creates EDID files in the universal .BIN format that you find on monitors. So I'm just assuming that's the same format the Extron 301 uses.

In my case, I've created BIN files with CRU that I exported to a Dr. HDMI, and then hooked that up to an Extron 101v that copied the EDID through the DDC. I used a HDMI>DVI, then a DVI>VGA adapter to achieve that last part.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:41 am 


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Right on. I went to plug the 301 and noticed the Phoenix PSU was missing.

Another few days of waiting for the 12v 1A..
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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:26 pm 


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Looks really nice! I figured there would be at least some issues with it being in the dump but that picture looks great so far! Also, what scanline settings are you using for the OSSC?

I've been waiting for a restock on the 5x and hoping for a 540p mode, but I may pick up an extron and try that out too. Looking forward to seeing your results!

As for the "Video 7" I think you need to press the display button on the remote as the only way to get it to disappear. I think thats how it was with my FV-310 when I had it.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:37 am 


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Hoagtech wrote:
Right on. I went to plug the 301 and noticed the Phoenix PSU was missing.

Another few days of waiting for the 12v 1A..

Which one did you order?
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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:58 pm 


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BazookaBen wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
never tried that. And you can create EDID bank files with it that the Extron control program let's you import ?


It creates EDID files in the universal .BIN format that you find on monitors. So I'm just assuming that's the same format the Extron 301 uses.

In my case, I've created BIN files with CRU that I exported to a Dr. HDMI, and then hooked that up to an Extron 101v that copied the EDID through the DDC. I used a HDMI>DVI, then a DVI>VGA adapter to achieve that last part.


OMG, I wonder if this method could be used to create a custom 240p resolution for the 301 HD. or maybe a "super resolution" that would then survive HDMI to RGBHV conversion via a Tendak or similar unit!


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:31 am 


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Quote:
OMG, I wonder if this method could be used to create a custom 240p resolution for the 301 HD. or maybe a "super resolution" that would then survive HDMI to RGBHV conversion via a Tendak or similar unit!

what would be the use case for that?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:25 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
OMG, I wonder if this method could be used to create a custom 240p resolution for the 301 HD. or maybe a "super resolution" that would then survive HDMI to RGBHV conversion via a Tendak or similar unit!

what would be the use case for that?


Nothing for HDCRTs, but as an alternative to the emotia/Corio2/GBS-C downscaling methods.

I sold off my Emotia a while back and the GBS-C can't downscale anything beyond 480p. I already use the 301 HD to downscale HD for the GBS-C--it would be nice to just skip it entirely and stay within a 4:4:4 processing pipeline.

I have a line on a reasonably priced Corio2, but the guy routinely goes dark for months on end. And it turns out my VP30 can't get the dotclock down low enough for true 240p. Bugs me I have so much gear and yet no "all-in-one" solution. Maybe the PixelFX Morph will be that unit, but for now I'd love to explore what I already own. :)


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:00 pm 


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Cant the 5X Pro downscale greater than 480p resolutions? Im almost positive it can downscale at least to 720p.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:18 pm 


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you really need to get a 5X :mrgreen:

Quote:
Nothing for HDCRTs, but as an alternative to the emotia/Corio2/GBS-C downscaling methods.

I already don't find HD to ED downscaling too hot on the Extron, so I doubt you'd get any great results with going even further.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:29 pm 


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Not to mention that a lot of games that people are trying to downscale are also available on PC, where you could just CRT Emudriver to play the game at native resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:35 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
you really need to get a 5X :mrgreen:

Quote:
Nothing for HDCRTs, but as an alternative to the emotia/Corio2/GBS-C downscaling methods.

I already don't find HD to ED downscaling too hot on the Extron, so I doubt you'd get any great results with going even further.


Really? That's interesting. I have an EDGE I could hook up for that task. I don't suppose you'd think it would perform better at downscaling than the extron?

BazookaBen wrote:
Not to mention that a lot of games that people are trying to downscale are also available on PC, where you could just CRT Emudriver to play the game at native resolution.


I actually have a PC set up for this but for some reason it routinely "collapses" in that 15kHz often suddenly doesn't work for no discernible reason. Haven't taken the time to fix it in a while as I primarily use it to play Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder.

Might be the built-in AMD GFX card I'm using...


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:43 pm 



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Mind if I ask how you've managed to pick this TV out of an e-waste dump without breaking the law/getting caught? Where I live in (King County/Seattle), it is forbidden to dumpster dive at the e-waste centers, so once old electronics get dropped off, they're done for. Believe me, I've tried talking my parents into letting me dumpster dive for old electronics and they wouldn't budge. It's a real shame too, because old CRT TVs are getting difficult to find these days. I see free flat screens more often than I see free CRTs on my local Craigslist, and most of the time when I see CRTs, they're insanely expensive, especially Sony Trinitrons (I once saw a 13-inch Trinitron sell for $120, and I even saw a large XBR listed for $500, it's nuts).


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:35 pm 


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KPackratt2k wrote:
Mind if I ask how you've managed to pick this TV out of an e-waste dump without breaking the law/getting caught? Where I live in (King County/Seattle), it is forbidden to dumpster dive at the e-waste centers, so once old electronics get dropped off, they're done for. Believe me, I've tried talking my parents into letting me dumpster dive for old electronics and they wouldn't budge. It's a real shame too, because old CRT TVs are getting difficult to find these days. I see free flat screens more often than I see free CRTs on my local Craigslist, and most of the time when I see CRTs, they're insanely expensive, especially Sony Trinitrons (I once saw a 13-inch Trinitron sell for $120, and I even saw a large XBR listed for $500, it's nuts).


Not at all. I drive outside the big city to a small town where I know the owners. As long I take and never drop, and clean up after my self. he lets me have whatever I want. I started collecting arcade donor tubes and that turned into hooking up my family friends with Component and DVI sets for RGB converters.

parodius wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:
Right on. I went to plug the 301 and noticed the Phoenix PSU was missing.

Image

Another few days of waiting for the 12v 1A..

Which one did you order?


I ordered the Extron 12V 1A. The ends dont look right but I'll make it work..

incrediblehark wrote:
Looks really nice! I figured there would be at least some issues with it being in the dump but that picture looks great so far! Also, what scanline settings are you using for the OSSC?

I've been waiting for a restock on the 5x and hoping for a 540p mode, but I may pick up an extron and try that out too. Looking forward to seeing your results!

As for the "Video 7" I think you need to press the display button on the remote as the only way to get it to disappear. I think thats how it was with my FV-310 when I had it.


The Display button worked a charm. I'm using 2x with full scanlines..

On another note, my 240p through 2x looks awesome, but now I'm having issues with 480p VGA output from Xbox 360 going into OSSC.

Here's my Genesis scanlines: (click for full rez)

Image
Image

On eof my favorite uses for OSSC is playing Metal Slug 7 (XX) in 480p mode with scanlines.. Even though the scanlines are proper in 240p at 2x. They are not even in a VGA 480p Image. I'm hoping the Extron can mitigate this.. I'm also going to try using component cables for 360 but don't have them handy.

Image
Image
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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:09 pm 


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My PC wont open your links, says they are hazardous and wont let me bypass, whether Firefox or Edge.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:24 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
My PC wont open your links, says they are hazardous and wont let me bypass, whether Firefox or Edge.


Try Editing your firewall restrictions. I have been using img.bb since photobucket went down and they work great and are highly regarded.

But just for you josh. Here's the full size pics in the spoiler (click the spoiler)

Spoiler: show
Image
Image
Image
Image
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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Wega KV-32HS510 Dump Find
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:06 am 


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incrediblehark wrote:
Last one more concerning - I'm getting the 6 flashing lights at power on. Manual states its Low +B overcurrent. Either +5 line is overloaded, +5 line is shorted, or IC504 is faulty (I think this was a common issue with this model). Is this definitely my TV, or could it be an issue with something else like the wiring in my house, etc? Assuming there's no voltage setting in the service menu to correct this but I'm hoping someone reading this can give me some advice on troubleshooting that doesn't involve opening up this set.


Just wanted to update on this for anyone following this thread, or anyone who might encounter the issue I was having... today I removed my cheap old GE surge protector and set up a Furman PST-8 Power Conditioner. Just in early testing but seems to have resolved my overcurrent problems. I have been able to repeatedly turn off/on the tv without the 6 blinking light error.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:53 am 


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Curiously, my HS420 was shutting off on its own the other day when I tested the new firmware, and I was using a Cyberpower surge protector/strip that I had never used before on it. Wonder if that was causing the issue? I'll have to try a different way to power up when my second Portta DAC comes in and I re-test.


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