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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:21 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
that works through an EDID bank import on the PC control software. You basically create an EDID file with your custom resolution first and then import it into the control program.


Custom Resolution Utility from Toasty X would definitely be the easiest, most intuitive way to do this.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 8:23 pm 


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never tried that. And you can create EDID bank files with it that the Extron control program let's you import ?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:49 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
never tried that. And you can create EDID bank files with it that the Extron control program let's you import ?


It creates EDID files in the universal .BIN format that you find on monitors. So I'm just assuming that's the same format the Extron 301 uses.

In my case, I've created BIN files with CRU that I exported to a Dr. HDMI, and then hooked that up to an Extron 101v that copied the EDID through the DDC. I used a HDMI>DVI, then a DVI>VGA adapter to achieve that last part.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:41 am 


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Right on. I went to plug the 301 and noticed the Phoenix PSU was missing.

Another few days of waiting for the 12v 1A..
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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:26 pm 


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Looks really nice! I figured there would be at least some issues with it being in the dump but that picture looks great so far! Also, what scanline settings are you using for the OSSC?

I've been waiting for a restock on the 5x and hoping for a 540p mode, but I may pick up an extron and try that out too. Looking forward to seeing your results!

As for the "Video 7" I think you need to press the display button on the remote as the only way to get it to disappear. I think thats how it was with my FV-310 when I had it.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:37 am 


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Hoagtech wrote:
Right on. I went to plug the 301 and noticed the Phoenix PSU was missing.

Another few days of waiting for the 12v 1A..

Which one did you order?
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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:58 pm 


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BazookaBen wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
never tried that. And you can create EDID bank files with it that the Extron control program let's you import ?


It creates EDID files in the universal .BIN format that you find on monitors. So I'm just assuming that's the same format the Extron 301 uses.

In my case, I've created BIN files with CRU that I exported to a Dr. HDMI, and then hooked that up to an Extron 101v that copied the EDID through the DDC. I used a HDMI>DVI, then a DVI>VGA adapter to achieve that last part.


OMG, I wonder if this method could be used to create a custom 240p resolution for the 301 HD. or maybe a "super resolution" that would then survive HDMI to RGBHV conversion via a Tendak or similar unit!


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:31 am 


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Quote:
OMG, I wonder if this method could be used to create a custom 240p resolution for the 301 HD. or maybe a "super resolution" that would then survive HDMI to RGBHV conversion via a Tendak or similar unit!

what would be the use case for that?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:25 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
OMG, I wonder if this method could be used to create a custom 240p resolution for the 301 HD. or maybe a "super resolution" that would then survive HDMI to RGBHV conversion via a Tendak or similar unit!

what would be the use case for that?


Nothing for HDCRTs, but as an alternative to the emotia/Corio2/GBS-C downscaling methods.

I sold off my Emotia a while back and the GBS-C can't downscale anything beyond 480p. I already use the 301 HD to downscale HD for the GBS-C--it would be nice to just skip it entirely and stay within a 4:4:4 processing pipeline.

I have a line on a reasonably priced Corio2, but the guy routinely goes dark for months on end. And it turns out my VP30 can't get the dotclock down low enough for true 240p. Bugs me I have so much gear and yet no "all-in-one" solution. Maybe the PixelFX Morph will be that unit, but for now I'd love to explore what I already own. :)


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:00 pm 


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Cant the 5X Pro downscale greater than 480p resolutions? Im almost positive it can downscale at least to 720p.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:18 pm 


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you really need to get a 5X :mrgreen:

Quote:
Nothing for HDCRTs, but as an alternative to the emotia/Corio2/GBS-C downscaling methods.

I already don't find HD to ED downscaling too hot on the Extron, so I doubt you'd get any great results with going even further.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:29 pm 


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Not to mention that a lot of games that people are trying to downscale are also available on PC, where you could just CRT Emudriver to play the game at native resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:35 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
you really need to get a 5X :mrgreen:

Quote:
Nothing for HDCRTs, but as an alternative to the emotia/Corio2/GBS-C downscaling methods.

I already don't find HD to ED downscaling too hot on the Extron, so I doubt you'd get any great results with going even further.


Really? That's interesting. I have an EDGE I could hook up for that task. I don't suppose you'd think it would perform better at downscaling than the extron?

BazookaBen wrote:
Not to mention that a lot of games that people are trying to downscale are also available on PC, where you could just CRT Emudriver to play the game at native resolution.


I actually have a PC set up for this but for some reason it routinely "collapses" in that 15kHz often suddenly doesn't work for no discernible reason. Haven't taken the time to fix it in a while as I primarily use it to play Golden Axe: Revenge of Death Adder.

Might be the built-in AMD GFX card I'm using...


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:43 pm 



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Mind if I ask how you've managed to pick this TV out of an e-waste dump without breaking the law/getting caught? Where I live in (King County/Seattle), it is forbidden to dumpster dive at the e-waste centers, so once old electronics get dropped off, they're done for. Believe me, I've tried talking my parents into letting me dumpster dive for old electronics and they wouldn't budge. It's a real shame too, because old CRT TVs are getting difficult to find these days. I see free flat screens more often than I see free CRTs on my local Craigslist, and most of the time when I see CRTs, they're insanely expensive, especially Sony Trinitrons (I once saw a 13-inch Trinitron sell for $120, and I even saw a large XBR listed for $500, it's nuts).


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:35 pm 


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KPackratt2k wrote:
Mind if I ask how you've managed to pick this TV out of an e-waste dump without breaking the law/getting caught? Where I live in (King County/Seattle), it is forbidden to dumpster dive at the e-waste centers, so once old electronics get dropped off, they're done for. Believe me, I've tried talking my parents into letting me dumpster dive for old electronics and they wouldn't budge. It's a real shame too, because old CRT TVs are getting difficult to find these days. I see free flat screens more often than I see free CRTs on my local Craigslist, and most of the time when I see CRTs, they're insanely expensive, especially Sony Trinitrons (I once saw a 13-inch Trinitron sell for $120, and I even saw a large XBR listed for $500, it's nuts).


Not at all. I drive outside the big city to a small town where I know the owners. As long I take and never drop, and clean up after my self. he lets me have whatever I want. I started collecting arcade donor tubes and that turned into hooking up my family friends with Component and DVI sets for RGB converters.

parodius wrote:
Hoagtech wrote:
Right on. I went to plug the 301 and noticed the Phoenix PSU was missing.

Image

Another few days of waiting for the 12v 1A..

Which one did you order?


I ordered the Extron 12V 1A. The ends dont look right but I'll make it work..

incrediblehark wrote:
Looks really nice! I figured there would be at least some issues with it being in the dump but that picture looks great so far! Also, what scanline settings are you using for the OSSC?

I've been waiting for a restock on the 5x and hoping for a 540p mode, but I may pick up an extron and try that out too. Looking forward to seeing your results!

As for the "Video 7" I think you need to press the display button on the remote as the only way to get it to disappear. I think thats how it was with my FV-310 when I had it.


The Display button worked a charm. I'm using 2x with full scanlines..

On another note, my 240p through 2x looks awesome, but now I'm having issues with 480p VGA output from Xbox 360 going into OSSC.

Here's my Genesis scanlines: (click for full rez)

Image
Image

On eof my favorite uses for OSSC is playing Metal Slug 7 (XX) in 480p mode with scanlines.. Even though the scanlines are proper in 240p at 2x. They are not even in a VGA 480p Image. I'm hoping the Extron can mitigate this.. I'm also going to try using component cables for 360 but don't have them handy.

Image
Image
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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:09 pm 


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My PC wont open your links, says they are hazardous and wont let me bypass, whether Firefox or Edge.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:24 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
My PC wont open your links, says they are hazardous and wont let me bypass, whether Firefox or Edge.


Try Editing your firewall restrictions. I have been using img.bb since photobucket went down and they work great and are highly regarded.

But just for you josh. Here's the full size pics in the spoiler (click the spoiler)

Spoiler: show
Image
Image
Image
Image
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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Wega KV-32HS510 Dump Find
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:06 am 


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incrediblehark wrote:
Last one more concerning - I'm getting the 6 flashing lights at power on. Manual states its Low +B overcurrent. Either +5 line is overloaded, +5 line is shorted, or IC504 is faulty (I think this was a common issue with this model). Is this definitely my TV, or could it be an issue with something else like the wiring in my house, etc? Assuming there's no voltage setting in the service menu to correct this but I'm hoping someone reading this can give me some advice on troubleshooting that doesn't involve opening up this set.


Just wanted to update on this for anyone following this thread, or anyone who might encounter the issue I was having... today I removed my cheap old GE surge protector and set up a Furman PST-8 Power Conditioner. Just in early testing but seems to have resolved my overcurrent problems. I have been able to repeatedly turn off/on the tv without the 6 blinking light error.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:53 am 


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Curiously, my HS420 was shutting off on its own the other day when I tested the new firmware, and I was using a Cyberpower surge protector/strip that I had never used before on it. Wonder if that was causing the issue? I'll have to try a different way to power up when my second Portta DAC comes in and I re-test.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:57 am 


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Was going to post this in the 5x thread, but seemed more appropriate here.

I've been messing around with my service menu and have found that section 2170P-4 in the menu has a setting called IDSW. This forces a certain resolution, such as FULL, FULL HD, VC 1080i, VC 960i. You can use this to take the 540p signal and force it to a FULL or FULL HD resolution. FULL HD for me looked to be closer match in terms of aspect ratio. But when you do this you don't need to use the JUMP setting as you will get full vertical height. I believe this saves per input resolution, but would be interested in further testing. I'm thinking if used this way the 540p input would switch to the adjusted resolution on the tv when in that mode and revert back when a 480p or 720p signal is displayed. Unfortunately no setting I tried gave me a picture that didn't flicker with scanlines on the retrotink 5x.

Josh - If you ever get a chance could you try out your HDMI input again and change the IDSW setting? Based on your pictures it appears to be set at 960i and I'm curious if setting it to FULL or FULL HD will give you proper scanline spacing. I could be way off on the track here so I apologize in advance if this is not the case.

EDIT: Nevermind... I don't think the IDSW setting saves the source, it just forces a resolution. I saved my settings in the service menu, and turned the tv off, when I turned it back on the setting had reverted.


Last edited by incrediblehark on Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:05 am 


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Hey guys I was rummaging around on my PC today and found an old PDF from AVSforum about image processing on Sony sets.

And it's still being hosted by AVSForum: https://www.avsforum.com/attachments/im ... pdf.23127/

Is any of this relevant to what we're talking about here? I haven't sat to down to read through it yet, just found it a few minutes ago.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:14 am 


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Awesome find! Just read through it, it looks like a very comprehensive guide on setting up image processing for sony hd sets. What stood out for me is that MIDE are like stored presets and they appear to be adjusted independent to input and source resolution. I feel like this does connect in a way. Another thing I find interesting is I have read about adjusting in the service menu, setting MIDE to 63 but with no real explanation why. After reading from what I can understand, at the end the author describes MID enhancement free setting of MIDE at 63 and Sharpness slider 12. So the reason why 63 is suggested is that it bypasses the MID enhancements? I do want to try out their settings though to see how they compare. Need to also test out the gamma settings, when i set the RT5X to 480p and full scanlines, it was pretty dark, so i adjusted GAMM to 1 or 2 and brightened the picture, but I think this guide you posted will give me better results.


I also just found this on AVSForum, not sure if posting links to other forums is allowed, if not I will remove:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-so ... es.531494/

Probably nothing new to most. I haven't gone through much yet, but looks like a wealth of information on making adjustments, just scrolling down I saw some focus adjustments that can be made in service menu I may try out when I have some quiet time to myself. Looks like there's some links on the page that have service menu codes, but also with notes to explain certain settings which could be very useful.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:56 pm 



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
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Chriz2600 on the classic gaming Discord this morning:

chriz2600 — Today at 3:18 AM
FYI, I just successfully tested 540p output on N64Digital using a custom modeline. Should be available on PS1Digital too once we found the time to port the firmware to PS1Digital.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:28 pm 


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incrediblehark wrote:
Awesome find! Just read through it, it looks like a very comprehensive guide on setting up image processing for sony hd sets. What stood out for me is that MIDE are like stored presets and they appear to be adjusted independent to input and source resolution. I feel like this does connect in a way. Another thing I find interesting is I have read about adjusting in the service menu, setting MIDE to 63 but with no real explanation why. After reading from what I can understand, at the end the author describes MID enhancement free setting of MIDE at 63 and Sharpness slider 12. So the reason why 63 is suggested is that it bypasses the MID enhancements? I do want to try out their settings though to see how they compare. Need to also test out the gamma settings, when i set the RT5X to 480p and full scanlines, it was pretty dark, so i adjusted GAMM to 1 or 2 and brightened the picture, but I think this guide you posted will give me better results.


I also just found this on AVSForum, not sure if posting links to other forums is allowed, if not I will remove:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-so ... es.531494/

Probably nothing new to most. I haven't gone through much yet, but looks like a wealth of information on making adjustments, just scrolling down I saw some focus adjustments that can be made in service menu I may try out when I have some quiet time to myself. Looks like there's some links on the page that have service menu codes, but also with notes to explain certain settings which could be very useful.


Nice. Goes into detail about suble Velocity Modulation adjustments , which may be useful. Good read.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:06 am 


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Josh128 wrote:
incrediblehark wrote:
Awesome find! Just read through it, it looks like a very comprehensive guide on setting up image processing for sony hd sets. What stood out for me is that MIDE are like stored presets and they appear to be adjusted independent to input and source resolution. I feel like this does connect in a way. Another thing I find interesting is I have read about adjusting in the service menu, setting MIDE to 63 but with no real explanation why. After reading from what I can understand, at the end the author describes MID enhancement free setting of MIDE at 63 and Sharpness slider 12. So the reason why 63 is suggested is that it bypasses the MID enhancements? I do want to try out their settings though to see how they compare. Need to also test out the gamma settings, when i set the RT5X to 480p and full scanlines, it was pretty dark, so i adjusted GAMM to 1 or 2 and brightened the picture, but I think this guide you posted will give me better results.


I also just found this on AVSForum, not sure if posting links to other forums is allowed, if not I will remove:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-so ... es.531494/

Probably nothing new to most. I haven't gone through much yet, but looks like a wealth of information on making adjustments, just scrolling down I saw some focus adjustments that can be made in service menu I may try out when I have some quiet time to myself. Looks like there's some links on the page that have service menu codes, but also with notes to explain certain settings which could be very useful.


Nice. Goes into detail about suble Velocity Modulation adjustments , which may be useful. Good read.



I read your article on reddit about the retrotink breathing new life into HDCRT.


That was a great read. Thanks for sharing dude.

Article: https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... life_into/
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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:28 am 



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I did a quick test of using a 540p resolution for scaling with the DSC-310 which requires Extron software. The picture did no look as good as the TVs native handling of 480p so don’t believe it would be worth using the DCS-301 to achieve less lag.

What games do you guys play were the lag decease really shows?

I can try downscaling with my Corio2 next and on my RT5X once I receive it. Can anyone comment on the scaling picture on the those devices opposed the TVs scaling?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:50 am 


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Quote:
I did a quick test of using a 540p resolution for scaling with the DSC-310 which requires Extron software. The picture did no look as good as the TVs native handling of 480p so ...

that wasn't realy the point. The 301 can display a 1:1 rendition of a 480p source in a window inside of 540p output signal, so the there's no scaling involved and neither does the quality take any hit.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:17 pm 


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nes.og wrote:
I did a quick test of using a 540p resolution for scaling with the DSC-310 which requires Extron software. The picture did no look as good as the TVs native handling of 480p so don’t believe it would be worth using the DCS-301 to achieve less lag.

What games do you guys play were the lag decease really shows?

I can try downscaling with my Corio2 next and on my RT5X once I receive it. Can anyone comment on the scaling picture on the those devices opposed the TVs scaling?



As Fudoh has said, the new 540p mode in the 5X integer scales 240p 2x or 480p in a 540p window. Therefore the picture / scaling is perfect after you stretch the raster in the service menu.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:43 pm 



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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
I did a quick test of using a 540p resolution for scaling with the DSC-310 which requires Extron software. The picture did no look as good as the TVs native handling of 480p so ...

that wasn't realy the point. The 301 can display a 1:1 rendition of a 480p source in a window inside of 540p output signal, so the there's no scaling involved and neither does the quality take any hit.


The picture quality seems to suffer even if 1:1. So you have done this yourself? If so how did you achieve? Thanks.


Last edited by nes.og on Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:51 pm 



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Josh128 wrote:
nes.og wrote:
I did a quick test of using a 540p resolution for scaling with the DSC-310 which requires Extron software. The picture did no look as good as the TVs native handling of 480p so don’t believe it would be worth using the DCS-301 to achieve less lag.

What games do you guys play were the lag decease really shows?

I can try downscaling with my Corio2 next and on my RT5X once I receive it. Can anyone comment on the scaling picture on the those devices opposed the TVs scaling?



As Fudoh has said, the new 540p mode in the 5X integer scales 240p 2x or 480p in a 540p window. Therefore the picture / scaling is perfect after you stretch the raster in the service menu.


I was referring to the Extron DSC 310. Unless there are some extra steps involved then picture doesn’t look as good even if the scaling may be 1:1. I could test some more but probably not worth the effort since I’ll be getting a RT5X. So there are no issues the 540P mode you have observed? What games do you really notice that benefit from the lag decrease?


Last edited by nes.og on Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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