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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:30 pm 


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jjm028 wrote:
So I checked out the 540p from the tink5x / component converter on my 30-HS420, and I was super duper impressed. I had never even considered playing 240p on this tv before that, but it looked and played awesome.


This got me thinking about setting up a custom 540p resolution on my Mister. After a lot of digging, I finally got a modeline that held sync. It is a 1920x540 resolution. What's strange is that the aspect ratio of the menu core is perfect, but console cores are basically 1/2 of their proper width ... I worked around this by making a 8:3 custom aspect ratio to stretch it back out. If anyone has any experience with 540p from the Mister's HDMI, definitely let me know. Hopefully 540p gains some popularity in the future and we wont have to do this technical stuff to have native resolution on these screens haha.


It does look great indeed, and with less than 3.25ms (240p/480i source) or 1.6ms (480p source)! Its the real deal. :mrgreen:

So you got 540p working via HDMI? Do you mind posting the working modeline here? Maybe Mike can look at the differences in his timings in the current 540p RT5X mode vs what you have and possibly move to those timings in a later update. It could potentially eliminate the need for the component converter that seems to be almost universally required to get the mode working on these Sony HD CRTs at this time.

nes.og wrote:
I’ll compare lag to the RT5X at 540P but was wondering if the lack of 540P on the Time Slueth will skew the results? I know that 540P is 1080i but the same is true of 240P and 480i yet the Time Slueth has a 240P option.


The output res of the TS doesnt matter to the TV as far as lag is concerned, because you arent feeding the TV with the TS. You are feeding either the RT5X or your Extron, and either of them have to feed the TV either 1080i or 540p for zero lag mode (with HDPT=0). I've already tested a TS feeding an RT5X, feeding the TV 540p in zero lag mode, the results are below. You can change the output res on the TS to anything you want, if the RT5X can accept it, it will convert to 540p at its output. The lag differences seen there are processing differences in the RT5X for different input resolutions. 480p is the fastest followed by 480i and 240p.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=67984&start=1095


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:27 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2020
Posts: 80
Thanks for the info!


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:40 am 


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Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 201
Location: Salem OR
jjm028 wrote:
So I checked out the 540p from the tink5x / component converter on my 30-HS420, and I was super duper impressed. I had never even considered playing 240p on this tv before that, but it looked and played awesome.


This got me thinking about setting up a custom 540p resolution on my Mister. After a lot of digging, I finally got a modeline that held sync. It is a 1920x540 resolution. What's strange is that the aspect ratio of the menu core is perfect, but console cores are basically 1/2 of their proper width ... I worked around this by making a 8:3 custom aspect ratio to stretch it back out. If anyone has any experience with 540p from the Mister's HDMI, definitely let me know. Hopefully 540p gains some popularity in the future and we wont have to do this technical stuff to have native resolution on these screens haha.

Can you provide us with the video mode? I'm trying to work on this now.
_________________
Displays I currently own:
LG 77C1(OLED),TCL 75R635(MiniLED),Apple Studio Monitor 21(PCCRT),JVC I'Art 36(SDCRT),SONY 34XBR960x3(HDCRT),CH-15DXA(TVL800)
SONY 32XBR250,Samsung UBJ590(LED),Panasonic P50VT20(Plasma),JVC RS400(LCoS),Optoma27HDR(DLP)


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:13 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2020
Posts: 80
Bahn Yuki wrote:
Can you provide us with the video mode? I'm trying to work on this now.


Try using a CVT calculator with and without reduced blanking if necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:44 pm 


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Joined: 15 Oct 2015
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Location: Salem OR
Been trying it for a while. I just get a grey screen in hdmi. If anyone knows the video mode the retrotink 5x uses that could help.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
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Displays I currently own:
LG 77C1(OLED),TCL 75R635(MiniLED),Apple Studio Monitor 21(PCCRT),JVC I'Art 36(SDCRT),SONY 34XBR960x3(HDCRT),CH-15DXA(TVL800)
SONY 32XBR250,Samsung UBJ590(LED),Panasonic P50VT20(Plasma),JVC RS400(LCoS),Optoma27HDR(DLP)


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:34 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2020
Posts: 80
Bahn Yuki wrote:
Been trying it for a while. I just get a grey screen in hdmi. If anyone knows the video mode the retrotink 5x uses that could help.



I don’t know all the parameters but can tell you that the RT5X uses a 1920x540 resolution so use that with CVT if you have been trying 960x540.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:59 am 



Joined: 19 Feb 2016
Posts: 59
Location: Boulder, CO
Great info on this thread. The Component vs DVI/HDMI lag tests are interesting given the processing diagram just posted. I would have guessed the analog would have had less lag. I looked into a lot of this a while ago when I got my KD-36XS955 and have enjoyed using it even with the 1 frame of lag with my OSSC for 240p upscale at 2x an 480p content. Using my Xbox 360 set at 1080i and no lag has also been great sans letter boxing. Has anyone here tried the 540p Retrotink 5X feature on a 4:3 HD CRT? Curious if the TV treats is like 1080i content and displays it in 16:9 letterbox or treats is as fullscreen 4:3.

Glad others are finally discovering these underrated sets despite their minor pitfalls.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:49 am 


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ShadowofBob wrote:
Has anyone here tried the 540p Retrotink 5X feature on a 4:3 HD CRT? Curious if the TV treats is like 1080i content and displays it in 16:9 letterbox or treats is as fullscreen 4:3.

Glad others are finally discovering these underrated sets despite their minor pitfalls.


I did the initial testing and posted in the RT5X thread. Below is what it looks like before adjustments in the SM.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:16 am 



Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 227
nes.og wrote:
Bahn Yuki wrote:
Been trying it for a while. I just get a grey screen in hdmi. If anyone knows the video mode the retrotink 5x uses that could help.



I don’t know all the parameters but can tell you that the RT5X uses a 1920x540 resolution so use that with CVT if you have been trying 960x540.


The RT5X outputs 1920 x 540 using the exact same timings as 1080i except without the interlace offset (so 562 lines/frame instead of 562.5 lines/field). The same trick that turns 480i into 240p.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:58 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2020
Posts: 80
Bahn Yuki wrote:
Been trying it for a while. I just get a grey screen in hdmi. If anyone knows the video mode the retrotink 5x uses that could help


I don't have a Mister but this should be it:

video_mode=1920,88,44,148,540,2,5,15,74250

You'll most likely need to use a HDMI to component adapter if you aren't already.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:55 am 


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Joined: 15 Oct 2015
Posts: 201
Location: Salem OR
nes.og wrote:
Bahn Yuki wrote:
Been trying it for a while. I just get a grey screen in hdmi. If anyone knows the video mode the retrotink 5x uses that could help


I don't have a Mister but this should be it:

video_mode=1920,88,44,148,540,2,5,15,74250

You'll most likely need to use a HDMI to component adapter if you aren't already.
Ok that worked, but only one of my of 960s worked over component. I'm still curious about hdmi timings. Also I'm having same aspect ratio issues as other poster had. So it's nice to see it actually does work. Image

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
_________________
Displays I currently own:
LG 77C1(OLED),TCL 75R635(MiniLED),Apple Studio Monitor 21(PCCRT),JVC I'Art 36(SDCRT),SONY 34XBR960x3(HDCRT),CH-15DXA(TVL800)
SONY 32XBR250,Samsung UBJ590(LED),Panasonic P50VT20(Plasma),JVC RS400(LCoS),Optoma27HDR(DLP)


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:20 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2020
Posts: 80
Bahn Yuki wrote:
Ok that worked, but only one of my of 960s worked over component. I'm still curious about hdmi timings. Also I'm having same aspect ratio issues as other poster had. So it's nice to see it actually does work.


So you’re welcome? lol

Same timings for HDMI homie. Most HDCRTs won’t sync 540P over HDMI, just component. In my case my Panasonic will but not my Phillips or Sony.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:38 am 


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Joined: 09 Jun 2013
Posts: 62
Location: ME, USA
Been working on other side projects etc, but since school has started and my kids are out of the house for a good part of the day I was able to open up my 40XBR800 and inspect the B board. Here are some poorly taken photos of the board:

Spoiler: show
ImageImageImageImageImage


I tried to get close up shots of all of the missing components for the sake of comparison to others that have the HDPT bypass circuit correctly installed. There are a lot of things missing from this board, I'm unsure of what is exactly related to the bypass circuit though as I haven't really looked too deep into the service manual schematics.

I will say though that for me personally, looking at this up close I know what my limits are in terms of my soldering skills and workspace/equipment. I feel comfortable doing caps and could probably do the small resistors but the ICs are not something I think I could do reliably. As of now I'm going to stick with how it is and try to look for a proper B board, unless there's someone willing to take on the project and do the soldering for me (which I would gladly pay for).

At any rate, I hope that this information will be helpful to anyone else out there trying to find solutions to this specific problem.


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:07 am 


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Posts: 1811
nes.og wrote:
Same timings for HDMI homie. Most HDCRTs won’t sync 540P over HDMI, just component. In my case my Panasonic will but not my Phillips or Sony.


So you have quite a few HDCRTs it seems!

You could provide the community with some really useful information on those Philips and Panasonic sets. Like input lag figures for 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i.

Also, I'm curious how they display 480p signals. Line for line in a stretched raster, like a Sony, or some other method. Maybe even switching to a native 31kHz?


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 Post subject: Re: 240 to 540p for SONY Trinitron KV-32HS510 HDCRT Dump Fin
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:24 pm 


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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 1550
incrediblehark - that looks like a crapload of unpopulated components. I wonder if thats all needed in addition to the IC to get the HDPT working? Hot air/SMD rework stations off of Amazon are cheap and I really like the one I use. Very no nonsense and it does the job. Surface mount soldering is super easy with some hot air, tweezers, flux, and a magnifying glass. But if you need all of those components populated that would be a pretty big job. Not just the soldering part but making sure you get all the right parts in all the right places.


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