Cheapest 240p/480i and 480p capable monitor? (at least 20")

[Nehalem501]

Hello everyone,

What CRT monitor that is at least 20", would you recommend, that can handle both 15.7KHz (240p/480i) / 31KHz (480p) and would be reasonably priced? Can be VGA / RGB only.

I don't have a lot of space, so I would like to have a single monitor that can handle all signals from all older game systems, from the Famicom to the Xbox360.
I need 15KHz support for PS1/PS2 lightgun games (so a standard VGA monitor with an OSSC or a similar solution won't work), and I would like to have the possibility to play in 480p on consoles supporting it like the Dreamcast, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox, ...

It seems like these are impossible to find in Europe (I live in France) for reasonable prices anymore (meaning: not 4 digit prices).

Here I can only find overpriced Sony BVM that are able to do that, the PVM-20L5 doesn't exist in Europe and even the 15KHz only PVM are seriously expensive now.

There is a PVM-20M7MDE near me that is less overpriced (600 €) than others, it supports 480p, but unfortunately this is a weird model that runs in 100/120Hz mode with 15KHz signals (so no lightgun compatibility).

All the professional video monitors that are at least 19" or 20" made by other manufacturers are unobtanium (NEC, JVC, Mitsubishi, Ikegami, ...), I never saw a listing for one here at least.
Consumer 15KHz compatible VGA monitors seem even harder to find.

And I've never seen IRL in my lifetime a 480p compatible consumer CRT TV (also, from what I've heard, these EDTV models are all 100/120Hz models so lightgun compatibility would still be an issue).

Some time ago I was dreaming about having one of those 20" Multiformat PVM or BVM that can handle everything from 15KHz composite to 1080i RGB or YPbPr component. Now I would settle for anything that would match my criteria.

Thank you for your help.

[archimage]

15/31 consumer tv's are very rare, and probably not cheap from the beginning... I know there are some Loewe E3000 chassis which can accept VGA, also some Samsung Flat CRT that can accept component input up to 1080i, JVC made a 36", but they disappear very quickly and they get ridiculously priced.

After long search for a a D20F1E and looking how prices rise on these models, I decided to stick with more available pro monitors, a 240p 20F1E and Iiyama vision master pro for 480p, ok it takes more space but it's the best from each world, and more possibilities for half the price of Multiformat monitor, which doesn't have a better range for special resolutions, for example pc gaming @200hz... at least no compromise on quality...

If I was on budget I would certainly choose a cheap trinitron and a pc monitor, side by side, or stick with lcd panel for 480p and up because the gain is not as substancial as a 240p crt even if I find it better.

Interested with suggestions on this topic though, just curious to know which models can offer multisync on consumer grade.

Good luck !

[Hoagtech]

Hello everyone,

What CRT monitor that is at least 20", would you recommend, that can handle both 15.7KHz (240p/480i) / 31KHz (480p) and would be reasonably priced? Can be VGA / RGB only.

I don't have a lot of space, so I would like to have a single monitor that can handle all signals from all older game systems, from the Famicom to the Xbox360.
I need 15KHz support for PS1/PS2 lightgun games (so a standard VGA monitor with an OSSC or a similar solution won't work), and I would like to have the possibility to play in 480p on consoles supporting it like the Dreamcast, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox, ...

It seems like these are impossible to find in Europe (I live in France) for reasonable prices anymore (meaning: not 4 digit prices).

Here I can only find overpriced Sony BVM that are able to do that, the PVM-20L5 doesn't exist in Europe and even the 15KHz only PVM are seriously expensive now.

There is a PVM-20M7MDE near me that is less overpriced (600 €) than others, it supports 480p, but unfortunately this is a weird model that runs in 100/120Hz mode with 15KHz signals (so no lightgun compatibility).

All the professional video monitors that are at least 19" or 20" made by other manufacturers are unobtanium (NEC, JVC, Mitsubishi, Ikegami, ...), I never saw a listing for one here at least.
Consumer 15KHz compatible VGA monitors seem even harder to find.

And I've never seen IRL in my lifetime a 480p compatible consumer CRT TV (also, from what I've heard, these EDTV models are all 100/120Hz models so lightgun compatibility would still be an issue).

Some time ago I was dreaming about having one of those 20" Multiformat PVM or BVM that can handle everything from 15KHz composite to 1080i RGB or YPbPr component. Now I would settle for anything that would match my criteria.

Thank you for your help.

An OSSC with a VGA monitor does work with lightgun games. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I-i8ePVcHXI

What was weird is I couldn’t get HOTD2 on Dreamcast lightguns to work in 480p only 15khz line doubled.


I have a thread a couple down about a 4:3 WEGA that is going to handle my brothers 15-31khz. Apparently you can almost eliminate input lag through 480p DVI by turning off image processing in the service menu.


As a bonus it should have the best black levels and white tones on CRT and because the image is processed through OSSC and Extron RXI 203, I can adjust scanline intensities and image vibrancy on each console easily. I’m looking forward to tinkering with it.


Personally I use a Mitsubishi XC3725C Pro Monitor but finding one is not easy or cheap.

Maybe try posting a Want to Buy and offer a grand and see what happens.

Good luck

[Josh128]

Wei-ya / Makvision M-3129 and M-3138 are the only ones still (maybe) being produced. Very good picture quality but needs some S-correction mods if you plan on switching from 15KHz to 31KHz often. Monitor is also capable of 25KHz.

[kitty666cats]

https://lowendmac.com/2019/rca-mm36100- ... t-display/

^ Keep an eye out for these suckers!


http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0051-nettv-rgb.html

^ this also has a variant with 240p/480i component as well, model # SME-32DL5


https://www.ebay.com/itm/203472224952

^ probably under 20” but this thing seems to be a super cool / forgotten rare gem

[Josh128]

That RCA has an incredible resemblance to the Hitachi Ultravision Digital 36" I used to own, both in the front and the back. Wonder if it's the same tube?

[kitty666cats]

That RCA has an incredible resemblance to the Hitachi Ultravision Digital 36" I used to own, both in the front and the back. Wonder if it's the same tube?

https://www.digitalconnection.com/Archive/ps36800hr.htm

This ProScan seems to be the same! Did the Hitachi have unscaled 15kHz in addition to VGA?

[Josh128]

That RCA has an incredible resemblance to the Hitachi Ultravision Digital 36" I used to own, both in the front and the back. Wonder if it's the same tube?

https://www.digitalconnection.com/Archive/ps36800hr.htm

This ProScan seems to be the same! Did the Hitachi have unscaled 15kHz in addition to VGA?

It accepted 240p, but it was line doubled. But that doesnt mean it couldnt be the same tube, just different chassis and scaler board. Is it mentioned anywhere that the RCA above actually scans at 15KHz and doesnt just accept/scale it like the Hitachi did?

[kitty666cats]

That RCA has an incredible resemblance to the Hitachi Ultravision Digital 36" I used to own, both in the front and the back. Wonder if it's the same tube?

https://www.digitalconnection.com/Archive/ps36800hr.htm

This ProScan seems to be the same! Did the Hitachi have unscaled 15kHz in addition to VGA?

It accepted 240p, but it was line doubled. But that doesnt mean it couldnt be the same tube, just different chassis and scaler board. Is it mentioned anywhere that the RCA above actually scans at 15KHz and doesnt just accept/scale it like the Hitachi did?

Yeah, the RCA does native 15kHz on composite svid and component

[Nehalem501]

Thanks for all the information!
I have learned about a few monitor models that can handle 480p that I didn't know about.

An OSSC with a VGA monitor does work with lightgun games. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I-i8ePVcHXI

The NES/Famicom use a very basic lightgun technology that doesn't rely on the display being a CRT (it even works on LCD if there is no lag).
I'm talking about PS1 and PS2 lightgun games such as Time Crisis, that use "cathode ray timing". This only works on CRT and needs the original signal to be scanned verbatim on the tube in order to function properly (no line doubling, scaling, ...). As these games are 480i, the lightguns were never made compatible with 480p.
Because most Dreamcast lightgun games can be displayed in 480p, the Dreamcast lightguns can work in this resolution, this is why I was specifically talking about PlayStation titles.

I have a thread a couple down about a 4:3 WEGA that is going to handle my brothers 15-31khz. Apparently you can almost eliminate input lag through 480p DVI by turning off image processing in the service menu.

These never made their way into France, here DVI appeared only on LCD / Plasma models. Most CRTs had only SCART inputs, which means RGB but only in 15KHz, even for the line doubling TVs (Maybe it would be possible to add a 31KHz input to those TVs with some kind of mod, I'm not sure).

Wei-ya / Makvision M-3129 and M-3138 are the only ones still (maybe) being produced. Very good picture quality but needs some S-correction mods if you plan on switching from 15KHz to 31KHz often. Monitor is also capable of 25KHz.

Using an arcade monitor is actually an interesting idea (an arcade 15KHz-31KHz tube is much cheaper than a Multiformat PVM/BVM nowadays), but you would need to custom build some kind of enclosure for it and implement all the electronics around the tube. Might be simpler/cheaper to just buy a tri-sync arcade cabinet in the end.

https://lowendmac.com/2019/rca-mm36100- ... t-display/

^ Keep an eye out for these suckers!


http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0051-nettv-rgb.html

^ this also has a variant with 240p/480i component as well, model # SME-32DL5

RCA and NetTV never existed in Europe, not sure about Datatrain though (but I've never heard about this company before anyway).

[Josh128]

The makvision is an all-in-one unit. There are no electronics to mount really. You build a wooden box around it, hang the power and DE-15 / RGB cables out the back and you are good to go. The remote adjustment board could actually be mounted on the outside of the box if you wanted, or you cut a small window in front of where its normally mounted on the chassis to access it.

Let me show you a couple pictures because when adjusted up it is a beauty.