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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 1:52 am 


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Joined: 13 Jan 2018
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Location: Northern California
I'm glad he did a write up. All the poking at Scart has become a sort of inside joke you need a lot of history to understand. Scart still remains the most catered to option and is great as long as you're buying good quality cables.

fernan1234 wrote:
BTW, anyone unsure about switching away from a SCART setup because you've invested in high quality cables and switches, you can easily sell them and get pretty much all your original investment cost back. Back when I switched 2-3 years ago I had 10 Retro-Access coax cables, a gscart, and a Auxunworks switch, and sold everything within 1-2 weeks, most sold within a couple of days from listing it. And now the scene is bigger so selling this stuff should be even faster. There will always be newbies who only know about SCART so demand won't go away any time soon :D


Haha, comparatively I imagine it would be more like 1-2 years to move all your DB15 equipment and you'd take a lose. Scart is forever integrated into the retro gaming world and here to stay.

At least with BNC there are still plenty of high capacity switchers floating around the secondary market. Of course they are all gigantic, but dang they sure do rock with large multiple display setups.

With DB15 you're forever doomed to be the middle child. I can't imagine why anyone would make that switch these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 3:27 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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Gara wrote:
With DB15 you're forever doomed to be the middle child. I can't imagine why anyone would make that switch these days.


You'd be surprised. I've replaced a few for various reasons and was able to sell them almost immediately. And even if for whatever reason some day I don't need all my DB15 cables/switchers or lose money on them it's 100% cool with me, totally worth it to have enjoyed the benefits for years without the BS of SCART or gigantic Crosspoint switches for BNC.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 3:27 am 


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Gara wrote:
With DB15 you're forever doomed to be the middle child. I can't imagine why anyone would make that switch these days.


Middle child... Because you said so? Extron VGA switches are all over ebay for cheap and they were actual professional-grade boxes, unlike anything for SCART...

Here, have a lot of 3 8x2 switchers with audio for less than half the price after shipping of a gscartsw before shipping. Almost 3x the number of ports in about the same footprint since DSUB cables actually go out the back like a proper video connector.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274417570180

Why would I look at that and pick SCART or BNC? SCART maybe if you already have 3+ cables and don't want to buy new ones. BNC maybe if you want to do a lot of signal mixing and matching and have absolutely everything in one place. But for anyone who asked me and was starting fresh, my answer is going to be DSUB-15.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 10:02 am 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
Here, have a lot of 3 8x2 switchers with audio for less than half the price after shipping of a gscartsw before shipping. Almost 3x the number of ports in about the same footprint since DSUB cables actually go out the back like a proper video connector.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274417570180

Damn, if I could have just one like that, I'd switch out everything SCART in my setup in a heartbeat!!
Too bad shipping and customs both cost as much as the product itself. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 4:45 pm 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
Gara wrote:
With DB15 you're forever doomed to be the middle child. I can't imagine why anyone would make that switch these days.


Middle child... Because you said so? Extron VGA switches are all over ebay for cheap and they were actual professional-grade boxes, unlike anything for SCART...

Here, have a lot of 3 8x2 switchers with audio for less than half the price after shipping of a gscartsw before shipping. Almost 3x the number of ports in about the same footprint since DSUB cables actually go out the back like a proper video connector.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274417570180

Why would I look at that and pick SCART or BNC? SCART maybe if you already have 3+ cables and don't want to buy new ones. BNC maybe if you want to do a lot of signal mixing and matching and have absolutely everything in one place. But for anyone who asked me and was starting fresh, my answer is going to be DSUB-15.

this

(another argument for BNC would be long runs where you are using RG-59 coax)


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 5:42 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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Yeah very long runs are the only scenario I can think of where BNC becomes pretty much a necessity. For more regular setups there's no advantage really.

And speaking of making a switch to DB15 (or BNC) setups to replace SCART, now is the perfect time to order custom cables from Retro-Access. They've announced they have a delay on SCART connectors and aren't listing SCART cables, but do have custom orders open, which means that they'll be able to devote all their time for the next couple of weeks for such non-SCART custom orders.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 1:36 am 


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So if you go the DE15 route, what kind of connector does it have on the TV/Scaler end?

I'm looking at having to replace 7 or so of my crappy cheap SCART cables and it had been suggested that I switch to DE15 although I think that would end up being more expensive. But if there's a good reason to do so I might.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:12 am 


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Tempest_2084 wrote:
So if you go the DE15 route, what kind of connector does it have on the TV/Scaler end?

I'm looking at having to replace 7 or so of my crappy cheap SCART cables and it had been suggested that I switch to DE15 although I think that would end up being more expensive. But if there's a good reason to do so I might.

Well if you RGB mod your TV it's actually easier to fit BNC jacks or a VGA socket than a SCART socket. Unless of course you happen to have one of the TVs with an unpopulated SCART footprint. Cables 2 Go BNC VGA breakouts are cheap and abundant on ebay. The OSSC, the OSSC pro, and the PixelFX scalers all have VGA inputs already


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:25 am 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:
So if you go the DE15 route, what kind of connector does it have on the TV/Scaler end?

I'm looking at having to replace 7 or so of my crappy cheap SCART cables and it had been suggested that I switch to DE15 although I think that would end up being more expensive. But if there's a good reason to do so I might.

Well if you RGB mod your TV it's actually easier to fit BNC jacks or a VGA socket than a SCART socket. Unless of course you happen to have one of the TVs with an unpopulated SCART footprint. Cables 2 Go BNC VGA breakouts are cheap and abundant on ebay. The OSSC, the OSSC pro, and the PixelFX scalers all have VGA inputs already

Ah, and the 5X Pro doesn't support vga style connectors (yet anyway), so that might be a reason to stick with SCART.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:33 am 


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Retro-access can make a VGA to SCART cable, that's what I do from my switch to the OSSC. You don't want to connect older consoles to the VGA port on the OSSC since it has that design flaw with the chip that handles LPF where it won't work for the VGA port. If that weren't the case it would be a simple straight VGA-VGA cable.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:37 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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Also VGA-SCART cables of good quality are being sold by some other people thanks to the MiSTer project's increasing popularity, since its analog IO board uses a DB15 connector. Just make sure not to buy the more commonly found (and cheaply made) SCART-VGA cables. Direction matters when it comes to SCART (one of its annoying "features").


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:39 am 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
Retro-access can make a VGA to SCART cable, that's what I do from my switch to the OSSC. You don't want to connect older consoles to the VGA port on the OSSC since it has that design flaw with the chip that handles LPF where it won't work for the VGA port. If that weren't the case it would be a simple straight VGA-VGA cable.

That's true but some RGB modded consoles have a LPF built in so it may not be an issue


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:26 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Also VGA-SCART cables of good quality are being sold by some other people thanks to the MiSTer project's increasing popularity, since its analog IO board uses a DB15 connector. Just make sure not to buy the more commonly found (and cheaply made) SCART-VGA cables. Direction matters when it comes to SCART (one of its annoying "features").


I saw this one recommended but I have no clue if it attenuates the sync line or expects it to already be 75ohm from the Mister, so I didn't know if it should be recommended for general use or not.
https://ultimatemister.com/product/rgb-scart-cable/


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 3:58 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1967
Bob stirred the pot.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 5:45 pm 


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I do not own a single SCART cable or a device with a SCART connector on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:06 pm 



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Osirus wrote:
I do not own a single SCART cable or a device with a SCART connector on it.
Congratulations! The other threads are thataway


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 9:06 pm 


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Osirus wrote:
I do not own a single SCART cable or a device with a SCART connector on it.

The OSSC is the only one for me, but I envy your purity


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:22 am 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
Osirus wrote:
I do not own a single SCART cable or a device with a SCART connector on it.

The OSSC is the only one for me, but I envy your purity


No real dogmatic belief behind it, just countering this claim that SCART is integral with retro gaming to be a bit absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 5:43 am 


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It's not that it's integral, but that it's nearly unavoidable.
I'd have no idea why I were supposed to solder d-sub 15 or BNC connectors to my RGB cables back in the 90s, and they sure as hell didn't come with those.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 6:24 am 


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It's hardly unavoidable. I moved all my consoles over to component some time ago. The NES was the only one that gave me trouble, and then only because I had chosen to use the stock NESRGB mini DIN and not a Nintendo AV port.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 7:15 am 


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Not saying you can't get rid of it, but it being the default standard, and having been so for the better part of three decades mean you're going to have to deal with it in one way or another, even if it's just as an obstacle to get rid of.

Maybe if you're getting into analog video game consoles now in 2021, and have all the knowledge available on the internet at your fingertips to tell you what precautions to take, you can avoid it consistently, but that's kind of hypothetical. I'm assuming most of us are sitting around on stuff from the 90s or earlier. Otherwise, there are a lot of other options out there today that don't even involve analog video, such as emulation.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 7:56 am 


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I'm one of those "I've been using RGB since the '90s" people. If I had my way, everything would have a 9-pin D-sub connector and TTL composite sync, since that's what I grew up with gosh darn it.

Scart is indeed a silly connector, and its quirks stem from it being engineered primarily for composite video devices. But it does have the single largest install base in the world, and that isn't going to change. If you're able to make your own cables, using a different connector makes a lot of sense, but for the general public it's easier to go with an established standard that can be produced in quantity. I don't particularly care for SCART but I can't begrudge the rest of the retro gaming world for taking that path.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:05 pm 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 171
Location: Germany
Whenever I see this discussion pop up it's usually from a very north-American point of view:

"Just use Extron products, they're cheap and plentiful"
"You'll have to convert to component anyway to feed your consumer TV"

For Europeans to include an Extron device into a setup, we'd have to adapt the Scart cable with the components in it to BNC plus Audio (Phoenix connector), route it through the switch and finally connect it to the TV with a BNC/Phoenix to Scart cable WITH external blanking voltage.

It's so much work and so expensive to buy all the hardware to build this stuff yourself that I hardly know anyone who uses Extron stuff with consumer TVs in Europe. You can't even buy the described cable and not everybody solders his own...


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:02 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1403
Extron gear is not only BNC though. As mentioned already, there are also excellent DB15 ("VGA") switches by Extron also. But you're absolutely right that in Europe it will be much easier to find SCART-based gear, for obvious reasons. But I would wager that in Europe it is also possible to find DB15 gear by pro-level makers other than Extron, and of course VGA cables and connectors are also easily and cheaply available globally.

Now, also as mentioned earlier, when it comes to specific console cables with non-SCART connectors on one side and console-specific connectors on the other, indeed it is necessary to either be able to make them yourself or willing/able to source custom, non-cheap cables from a boutique vendor.

At the same time, if you want to avoid the usual problems of SCART cables (video noise from composite sync, audio interference noise, etc.) you also need to either be able to make them or order high-quality, non-cheap cables, so it's actually the same situation even for Europe residents in that regard.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 4:33 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 480
Tim Worthington’s VGA2SCART adapter is a godsend and has solved all my SCART related woes https://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=2 ... how_detail

I will hopefully never have to touch a SCART device again now that that thing is lodged permanently in the back of my TV.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 6:59 am 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 171
Location: Germany
fernan1234 wrote:
As mentioned already, there are also excellent DB15 ("VGA") switches by Extron also.


I never had one, does this switch also passthrough a voltage on Pin 9? Like I said, it's a huge hassle to externally provide the blanking voltage. The MiSTer for example does provide the 5V on pin 9, making it possible to build a Scart cable for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:12 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
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SuperSpongo wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
As mentioned already, there are also excellent DB15 ("VGA") switches by Extron also.


I never had one, does this switch also passthrough a voltage on Pin 9? Like I said, it's a huge hassle to externally provide the blanking voltage. The MiSTer for example does provide the 5V on pin 9, making it possible to build a Scart cable for it.


Why build a SCART cable when you can use any old VGA cable with the device I linked above?


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:25 am 



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Because you can build a Scart cable from scraps (old VGA cable plus Scart head) and its cleaner looking.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 8:37 am 


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Why pin 9?

I'd assume an Extron switch just switches everything on the DB15 ports, I guess the question is whether it does so indiscriminately?
Like, could you literally wire any signal (within reasonable voltage) to either of the 15 pins, and it would be switched out in the same manner for the output connector, or does it treat each signal for what it is, treat all the ground pins as a single signal, or common ground across all the inputs, etc.?

It does at least seem to have some sort of mechanism for detecting an active signal in any of the inputs for auto switching.


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 Post subject: Re: Stop ragging on SCART!
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 9:06 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 480
SuperSpongo wrote:
Because you can build a Scart cable from scraps (old VGA cable plus Scart head) and its cleaner looking.


Why destroy a perfectly good VGA cable when you could just use it?

If you don’t like the aesthetics of VGA cables that’s fine.


Last edited by strayan on Wed May 05, 2021 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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