LS-56 love

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bigbadboaz
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LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

Just a PSA for stick users as I'm pretty ecstatic right now.

Finally threw a stick into my Fighting Edge that I had long educated-guessed that I wouldn't like. Man did that turn out ironically - this is the best stick I have ever used, I doubt it will be replaced, and I think it can be used for any genre: none of this "good for shmups, too stiff for fighters" stuff.

The spring is NOT as stiff as advertised. I could actually handle a bit more tension comfortably; it feels - to me - a lot like an LS-32 which we know is quite commonly liked and not overly stiff. Actually, it's basically like a 32 without the weird stubby shaft length (it's normal length, JLF-like) or the damn pivot issue. A 32 perfected. Something I would always have loved but didn't know existed.

I have the Kowal short-throw kit on mine and think it's essential. It's only 2 bucks. The stick has a really short engage but the full throw is not that short. The kit doesn't actually shorten the throw as much as I'd expected, but it does rein it in and match it better with the engage character. It's a precise, restrained action that feels great and gives you the physical control to weave through tight areas.

I really think at this point that the LS-32 keeps getting pointed to due to momentum alone. People know JLF, and they know LS-32. Anyone looking for Seimitsu automatically gets recommended the 32. And it still has its great qualities - but as far as I'm concerned the 56 is it, but better. No reason to fall back on the old standby.

So again: PSA for anyone exploring Seimitsu, or looking for a shmup stick. You're going to hear about the 32 a LOT, and not much from the relative few who've tried a 56. But I'd strongly suggest starting with the 56. Man, I'm impressed.
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_rm_
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by _rm_ »

I do own the LS-56 (modded) and i like the stick BUT i even prefer the LS-55 over the 56 or 32.

It's all a matter of preference, you really have to try them out.

For me:

55»56»modded JLF»32»
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emphatic
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by emphatic »

The LS-32 doesn't have octo gate options either. If that's your thing.
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bigbadboaz
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

Yeah, and the 56 octo is arguably a better design than the JLF one as well.

Kowal does also make a 32 round gate (in metal, interestingly enough). I haven't tried it and I'm guessing you didn't either?

Emphatic, wasn't it you that decided the New LS-32 was the ideal stick back when they did the microswitch update? Still rocking those?

Re: LS-55 - you know, I heard one other person really loving that one too. Throw is longer on it, though, right - that's why I figure 56 is more my speed - and it's got that washer pivot. Any wear issues?
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emphatic
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by emphatic »

Never went back to LS-32 after trying LS-56. Now I'm all about JLF with oversized actuator, octagate and a 2LB spring. I love the feel of SANWA joysticks, the Seimitsu sticks feel cheap.
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bigbadboaz
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

I dunno, Sanwa is quality but the good Seimitsu sticks feel quite competitive to me. This LS-56 certainly doesn't feel cheap. :D

I'll definitely try the Kowal setup if I ever end up with another Sanwa stick. Everything in my rotation right now is either Hori or Seimitsu though.
thchardcore
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by thchardcore »

I have a set of LS-56 on my impress. Love them for fighters but diagonals seem stiff compared to other sticks.

Any suggestions for changing? I will use this cabinet only for Gradius IV going forward.
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bigbadboaz
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

Interesting. I not only find all 8 directions equally smooth, I don't find the tension really that stiff despite the reputation.

I wonder if there is significant variance in the production of this spring? It's the only explanation for what I'm feeling with mine vs. the STIFF STIFF STIFF complaining I've seen in more than one place.

Do you have the octagonal gate? You could try that; it brings the diagonals closer in which might offset any stiffness.

You could try the 58 spring, which is a direct replacement and a step looser than the 56's. Or you could go to the old standby LS-32, which while flawed still plays great for shmups.
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ShootTheCore
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by ShootTheCore »

I prefer the LS-62 myself. It's pretty much the same as the LS-56 only with a shorter lever. Best stick I've ever used for shmups - my scores noticeably improved after getting adjusted to it. Never going back to Sanwa ever again.
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

For bigbadboaz,

Have you tried the new Seimitsu Nobi stick setup yet? There're two variants: one with an octo gate & the 2nd one with a square gate. Arcade Shock has 'em both in stock currently -- are they good for shmups in general?

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bigbadboaz
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

No, I've wondered about it. And I've heard mixed (mixed as in what genre they're good for, not mixed as in quality, which seems high) things now that they're out. For the price, and as happy as I am with the 56, I don't think I'll invest. I also guess that I would not prefer the "stick shift" knob over a standard balltop.

The one thing I am really intrigued by is the octogate on the Pro version. It really looks more like a square with"finessed" corners and as such is pretty unique - it might offset the increased diagonal throw on a square gate nicely. Unfortunately, even if they offer it separately, it does not look like it will mount onto the 56/58/62 series body.
sunnshine
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by sunnshine »

I've got an LS-56-01 in my Mad Catz SFIV TE stick and there's a little (maybe 3mm or so) bit of 'slop' before the switches engage. It's set up with a square gate, 4 x 3mm Kowal throw mod spacers + longer screws to shorten the throw further than it would be with just 2 x 3mm spacers but I can't dial that initial slop out, it's like it needs a larger diameter actuator as well, for me anyway. Anyone know if there's such a thing available, or if it can be done?

I've still got the JLF that was in it when I got the stick but the throw's still too long even with the Kowal actuator in it :roll:
bigbadboaz
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

How old is your 56? A lot of Japanese sticks have that "slop" you describe but 3mm seems like a lot. Mine, although new, probably only has 1mm from center in either direction.

Makes me wonder if the solution would be as simple as a new spring.

I am not aware of any custom actuators for this stick, but you can search around the (archived) SRK forum and also Paradise Arcade Shop. They offer all kinds of proprietary custom actuators.

How does the stick work with four of the Kowal spacers on it? I was a little underwhelmed by the shortening effect of that kit, but didn't even think to double up on it.
sunnshine
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by sunnshine »

bigbadboaz wrote:How old is your 56? A lot of Japanese sticks have that "slop" you describe but 3mm seems like a lot. Mine, although new, probably only has 1mm from center in either direction.

Makes me wonder if the solution would be as simple as a new spring.

I am not aware of any custom actuators for this stick, but you can search around the (archived) SRK forum and also Paradise Arcade Shop. They offer all kinds of proprietary custom actuators.

How does the stick work with four of the Kowal spacers on it? I was a little underwhelmed by the shortening effect of that kit, but didn't even think to double up on it.
I bought it brand new, probably a couple of months or so ago. It works ok, the throw's super short and because the switches are further away from the pivot the spring 'feels' stiffer too. It's that initial travel into actuating the switches that I'd like to dial out. I bought a couple of mod kits because the one for my stick was showing as out of stock but the one for similar sticks was showing as in stock. I sent the seller a message and asked if they were basically the same thing but sold with different length screws for the different sticks (they are), so I bought two kits hoping (correctly!) that I could use the longer screws with my stick if I doubled the spacers up. It works, there's plently of engagement with the switches but there's still that annoying delay before the switches engage that you don't get with a good d-pad :x The thing is, as it is it's good (but not great) for shmups and too tight for fighting games :lol:
bigbadboaz
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

Sorry to hear that, you might have trouble with "slop" in sticks in general then, the engage distance on the 56 is noted as one of the shortest.

I know it's there but don't notice it at all in play. Some people really really hate this about Japanese sticks, I'm glad to be one of the lucky ones not really affected by it.

Would you do me a favor? If you have one of those screws still loose (from the second kit) could you give me a measurement? I'd like to know how it compares to the length of mine from the actual LS-56 kit. I have a second kit coming, originally intended for a second stick - but I'd like to try what you're doing if I'm going to have enough screw for the job.
sunnshine
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by sunnshine »

The screws that came with the kits I bought are 30mm long and the standard LS-56-01 screws are 19mm long. You need four screws for the LS-56-01.
bigbadboaz
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

Appreciate it, I'll take a look at the length of the 56 kit screws next time I have the unit apart.
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

So I reworked my stick today and I was able to get a third spacer on the assembly with the screws from the actual LS-56 kit. This feels really great; it's about what I was looking for originally when trying to make the stick "short-throw". I'm sure it'd be even better with the fourth spacer, but given I didn't have the 30mm screws I'm pretty darn happy with this result.

Really glad you mentioned that this was possible!
sunnshine
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by sunnshine »

bigbadboaz wrote:So I reworked my stick today and I was able to get a third spacer on the assembly with the screws from the actual LS-56 kit. This feels really great; it's about what I was looking for originally when trying to make the stick "short-throw". I'm sure it'd be even better with the fourth spacer, but given I didn't have the 30mm screws I'm pretty darn happy with this result.

Really glad you mentioned that this was possible!
Glad I could (inadvertently) help :D
bigbadboaz
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

Sunnshine, do you notice an LS-32 style "pivot hop" issue at all with your 4-spacer stick? I noticed this problem after some more usage with the third spacer on, and it definitively did not do this previously. I put it back to the "stock Kowal" configuration without the extra spacer and yeah, performance is back to normal. I don't really know how shortening the throw could induce this hiccup but it does seem like it was the cause.
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BazookaBen
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by BazookaBen »

So wait, I'm confused. Isn't the LS-56 already one of the shortest throw sticks? And some of you are adding mods to make them even shorter throw?

I was thinking about picking up an LS-56 today for shooters, with an octagonal gate. I thought I'd be good to go with just those two things.
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

People confuse throw and engage. It is, in fact, one of the shortest engage sticks, maybe _the_ shortest. You barely have to move the stick and a switch clicks. The full throw, however, is much longer and sort of "confuses" the overall feel of the stick. I do think it's much better with (one) Kowal kit; the throw isn't really jarringly short but it cleans up some of the excess movement beyond engagement.

the stick with an octagon gate does have a very good rep, I would recommend going through with your idea. And the octo throw is actually shorter than the standard square throw overall, so in stock form that is indeed going to have pretty short action as-is. However, the Kowal mod is only two dollars. I recommend ordering everything at Focus Attack - where the Kowal kit is available - and you will quite easily be able to try it both ways.
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BazookaBen
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by BazookaBen »

Ok yeah that makes sense. I think I'll give it a try, can't hurt.
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BazookaBen
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by BazookaBen »

I just ordered a LS-56 from Arcade Shock, but the PCB on the bottom says LS-33? Anybody know what's up with that? Did they send me the wrong one or does Seimitsu use the same PCB for different joysticks?
bigbadboaz
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

Seimitsu sticks are mostly hodge-podges of parts from other sticks. And they have no shame, they don't even bother to relabel some of the parts they repurpose.

In short: don't worry, they're all like that. :) Now update us on how you like it!
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BazookaBen
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by BazookaBen »

Thanks. It'll be a few days because it's going in an old PS2 Hori stick where I'm trying to integrate a dualshock 3 so it'll be a good PS1-3 shmup monster.
sunnshine
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by sunnshine »

bigbadboaz wrote:Sunnshine, do you notice an LS-32 style "pivot hop" issue at all with your 4-spacer stick? I noticed this problem after some more usage with the third spacer on, and it definitively did not do this previously. I put it back to the "stock Kowal" configuration without the extra spacer and yeah, performance is back to normal. I don't really know how shortening the throw could induce this hiccup but it does seem like it was the cause.
Sorry, I just saw your post. I don't know what you mean by 'pivot hop' but I can't feel anything untoward and it works ok.
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

I mean, when you pull all the way in a direction and hit the gate, the force of your pull (and I don't mean excessively hard) causes the stick to pull "up" and move further from the gate limit in a noticeable second step. It's very distracting and a big flaw of the LS-32.

My 56 started doing this with the 3rd spacer installed, and went back to normal when I went back to the "stock" Kowal configuration. I can only conclude it's because the actuator is hitting the gate at a different angle than intended with the extra spacer installed.
sunnshine
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by sunnshine »

bigbadboaz wrote:I mean, when you pull all the way in a direction and hit the gate, the force of your pull (and I don't mean excessively hard) causes the stick to pull "up" and move further from the gate limit in a noticeable second step. It's very distracting and a big flaw of the LS-32.

My 56 started doing this with the 3rd spacer installed, and went back to normal when I went back to the "stock" Kowal configuration. I can only conclude it's because the actuator is hitting the gate at a different angle than intended with the extra spacer installed.
Thanks for explaining that. I've never tried an LS-32, only the standard Sanwa JLF that came in the stick (way too much travel for shmups even with the Kowal mod in it) and this LS-56-01 I have in it now.

I can make the stick travel further than it 'should' with a bit of extra force but I haven't noticed it in use and nothing that could be described as a second step I don't think. I'll stick a pic of it up when I get a minute to take the lid off the stick.
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Re: LS-56 love

Post by bigbadboaz »

OK, thanks. I suppose it could be that I was using the 56 kit screws which are shorter, though the assembly seemed stable before I closed up the stick. Sometime when I put in a large order I'll add in the 55 kit with the longer screws and try it again.
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