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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:26 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 205
Location: Florida
bobrocks95 wrote:
Woozle wrote:
That should be possible, I think it's just a horizontal pixel averaging.


Do some implementations have some logic to determine where it needs to be applied vs averaging on the whole screen?

Not that I know of. Picking out individual pixels to blur would require some sort of pattern matching and would probably have lot of false positives/miss pixels.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:09 pm 


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Posts: 655
The MiSTer Genesis core definitely does that but it's not perfect. It matches grid patterns pretty well though, eg the light cones in the bar in Streets of Rage 2. Still not sure if that is just from looking at the video output or happening a bit earlier in the process.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:44 pm 



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 409
Guspaz wrote:
AFAIK, in the PC space, SMAA replaced FXAA as the post-processed anti-aliasing filter of choice. It's more computationally intensive, though.

Not really. They both have pros and cons. SMAA 1x is more expensive and it really is only good at shaving off the edges of geometry aliasing.
Most games from the PS3 era onward all already have FXAA, SMAA or some other Post Process AA enabled. Adding FXAA/SMAA on top would be pointless and just cause artifacts.
And it's usefulness at lower resolutions is extremely limited. Xbox/GC games could potentially benefit if they already don't have Anti Aliasing , which many do. And with PS2 games unless it offers a 480p mode it will be essentially useless, even deinterlaced.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:28 am 


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BONKERS wrote:
GC games could potentially benefit if they already don't have Anti Aliasing , which many do.

Citation needed. Only 3 games are known to use anti-aliasing, and only to a limited extent for 2 of them.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:52 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 479
Yeah, it’s news to me that GameCube games have anti-aliasing.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:22 am 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 2459
I wouldn't say most PS3 games have antialiasing either. There's a lot of "No AA" in this list: https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/list ... ons.41152/


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:55 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 479
GBA.

The native resolution of the GBA is 240 × 160 pixels (3:2 aspect ratio).

Using SWISS and a GCvideo based device allows you to output 720x480 (linex3) using nearest neighbour interpolation (bear in mind this is not anamorphic content).

Will your scaler be able to take us to 2160x1440 in a 2560 × 1440 frame?


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:21 am 


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Don't know exactly what needs to be done but GBI has a lot of output options and I'd definitely like to see good support like the OSSC has!


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:55 am 


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strayan wrote:
Yeah, it’s news to me that GameCube games have anti-aliasing.


Rogue Leader and/or Rebel Strike definitely employ some sort of AA in at least some scenes. Specifically the hangars where you pick your craft, you can see the AA on the edges of the craft as they hover.

Regardless though. You guys are talking too modern. Super Mario 64 and 90% of all other N64 games use anti-aliasing, and its glorious. :mrgreen:


Last edited by Josh128 on Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:01 pm 


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Location: Denmark
Will the morph have a full size HDMI output? I ask because a lot of your old digital mods uses mini HDMI and in my experience these ports can be very unreliable.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:16 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 205
Location: Florida
strayan wrote:
Will your scaler be able to take us to 2160x1440 in a 2560 × 1440 frame?

Definitely.

Konsolkongen wrote:
Will the morph have a full size HDMI output? I ask because a lot of your old digital mods uses mini HDMI and in my experience these ports can be very unreliable.

Full size HDMI input and output.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:32 pm 


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Woozle wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:
Will the morph have a full size HDMI output? I ask because a lot of your old digital mods uses mini HDMI and in my experience these ports can be very unreliable.

Full size HDMI input and output.


Excellent. Thanks :)


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:01 pm 


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Josh128 wrote:
Rogue Leader and/or Rebel Strike definitely employ some sort of AA in at least some scenes. Specifically the hangars where you pick you craft, you can see the AA on the edges of the craft as they hover.

3x MSAA in mission select, hangar, cutscenes, and pause screen.
strayan wrote:
GBA.

The native resolution of the GBA is 240 × 160 pixels (3:2 aspect ratio).

Using SWISS and a GCvideo based device allows you to output 720x480 (linex3) using nearest neighbour interpolation (bear in mind this is not anamorphic content).

Will your scaler be able to take us to 2160x1440 in a 2560 × 1440 frame?

You should know this is a suboptimal configuration.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:29 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 479
Extrems wrote:
You should know this is a suboptimal configuration.


What are your thoughts on the optimal configuration for GBA?


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:42 am 



Joined: 29 Jul 2013
Posts: 98
ZellSF wrote:
That seems more ambitious than I was expecting. This focus confuses me:
Quote:
Film Mode (VCR/LD/DVD)

Full frame Time-Base Correction.
3D Comb Filter.
Cadence detection.

Not that I'm complaining.


I feel pandered to. Genuinely excited about this. I've got my LD players hooked straight up to the TV for now, and it's fine, but I know TVs are probably going to drop composite one of these days.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:51 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 205
Location: Florida
bobrocks95 wrote:
Don't know exactly what needs to be done but GBI has a lot of output options and I'd definitely like to see good support like the OSSC has!
I don't think it needs much special treatment besides setting the Morph to crop out the active GBA image and then scaling it to the desired size. Even if you're running a GBI/GCVideo config where the GBA image has already been integer scaled, the Morph has a pre-scaler to obtain the original image. The pre-scaler is also nice for using Analogue consoles like the Super NT and the Morph's RGB/analog output, bypassing the need for the Analogue DAC.

orange808 wrote:
I realize I am way down the rabbit hole, here. I think some people will be using multiple units simultaneously. (Okay, maybe just me. So, it might not be worth it.) Will it be possible to select a remote control design that allows for multiple units and multiple remotes to coexist? That would also help for users that use multiple units to drive a video wall. At the very least, I would like an button or microswitch to disable remote control input.

I would also really like to feed composite and svideo over the HD15.
We support programming your own universal remote, using your TVs CEC function, or a web interface. That's more on the software/ESP32 side which Christof handles, but I'll pass along the request to him.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:26 pm 


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Posts: 2560
Location: Montréal, Canada
I see that the max output resolution is listed as 1440p60. Will the Morph be capable of scaling 720p60 to 1440p60? I've got a Mac Mini G4 running os 9 that I'm using for retro gaming, but the highest it'll do is 1080p60 (which is blurry on my 1440p monitor and kind of too high resolution for such an old system anyhow), and you'd think 720p60 would look great since it's a 2x2 scale to 1440p, but no, 720p60 look even blurrier. The OSSC can passthrough most of the resolutions it outputs, but will only do doubling on 640x480, which looks nice (much sharper than the monitor's scaling), and that's fine for some games that target 480p, but is too low for others. So 720p pixel doubled on a 1440p monitor seems like a pretty good compromise for many games to me.

In the mean time, I'm running 1024x768, which for some reason is a lot less blurry than 720p, but it's still not ideal.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:44 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 205
Location: Florida
720p can be scaled to 1440p.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:38 am 



Joined: 16 Aug 2020
Posts: 10
Woozle wrote:
720p can be scaled to 1440p.


That's exciting, does that include 16:9 content too? I.e. 1280x720 to 2560x1440?


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:13 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 13
Location: France
N64 wrote:
Woozle wrote:
720p can be scaled to 1440p.


That's exciting, does that include 16:9 content too? I.e. 1280x720 to 2560x1440?


This, and if the smoothing filter can work at 1440p (480pX3 and 720pX2), would be sooooooooo cool !


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:14 pm 


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Have to ask the big (in my world) question. Will scan doubling 240p60 input to 240p120 output over RGBHV be possible? If so, would a motion interpolation of the output (to prevent the double strobe illusion) also be possible, like with the OSSC Pro?

Also, tentative release date and pricing?


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:27 pm 


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Location: Germany
Quote:
If so, would a motion interpolation of the output (to prevent the double strobe illusion) also be possible, like with the OSSC Pro?

BFI when going from 60 to 120Hz does accomplish the same thing, doesn't it ?


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:30 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
If so, would a motion interpolation of the output (to prevent the double strobe illusion) also be possible, like with the OSSC Pro?

BFI when going from 60 to 120Hz does accomplish the same thing, doesn't it ?


No, because you lose the brightness which makes 240p120 look so good in the first place. BFI @240p120 essentially equals 480p60 w/scanlines. I really do find there's a big difference in the way it looks.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:20 pm 


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I think this remains a design quirk on the original OSSC, but any downside to using the VGA port? Original OSSC doesn't allow for proper LPF support so I have to use a VGA to SCART cable.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:34 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1391
bobrocks95 wrote:
I think this remains a design quirk on the original OSSC, but any downside to using the VGA port? Original OSSC doesn't allow for proper LPF support so I have to use a VGA to SCART cable.


It is just an OSSC Classic quirk. The Pro is confirmed to not have it, and I bet this won't either.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 5:59 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2018
Posts: 28
Feature request/wish: Would it be possible to include 1440p-->1440i conversion? 1440i is not a standard but it just so happens to work with BVM D-serries and the BKM-68X on A-series monitors, making it the highest possible picture quality one can get from those sets.

No confirmation if the OSSC Pro will have this yet, so here's hoping one (at least) of these two devices would introduce this!


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:49 am 



Joined: 06 Mar 2021
Posts: 22
I am thinking of getting a Morph and running an HDMI splitter on the output to go to a 1920x1440 capable monitor, a D24, a 34XBR960, a 27FV300 (likely use the component out here), and a LG C9. I know good HDMI->VGA and HDMI->Component converters exist, but are there any good HDMI->RGB converters? Or perhaps I should reserve the analog out for the D24? But I am concerned about the HDMI->Component downscaling to 240p properly for the 27FV300.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:54 am 


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anexanhume wrote:
I am thinking of getting a Morph and running an HDMI splitter on the output to go to a 1920x1440 capable monitor, a D24, a 34XBR960, a 27FV300 (likely use the component out here), and a LG C9. I know good HDMI->VGA and HDMI->Component converters exist, but are there any good HDMI->RGB converters? Or perhaps I should reserve the analog out for the D24? But I am concerned about the HDMI->Component downscaling to 240p properly for the 27FV300.


Which part of that chain is going to be doing the downscaling? The D24, XBR960, and FV300 all need 240p, and the monitor and LG need the final output of the morph... You'd have to split the input 3 ways and the output 2 ways to accomplish that...

Unless the Morph will somehow allow passthrough AND upscaling at the same time I don't see how you're going to be using its component output at all.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:00 am 



Joined: 06 Mar 2021
Posts: 22
bobrocks95 wrote:
anexanhume wrote:
I am thinking of getting a Morph and running an HDMI splitter on the output to go to a 1920x1440 capable monitor, a D24, a 34XBR960, a 27FV300 (likely use the component out here), and a LG C9. I know good HDMI->VGA and HDMI->Component converters exist, but are there any good HDMI->RGB converters? Or perhaps I should reserve the analog out for the D24? But I am concerned about the HDMI->Component downscaling to 240p properly for the 27FV300.


Which part of that chain is going to be doing the downscaling? The D24, XBR960, and FV300 all need 240p, and the monitor and LG need the final output of the morph... You'd have to split the input 3 ways and the output 2 ways to accomplish that...

Unless the Morph will somehow allow passthrough AND upscaling at the same time I don't see how you're going to be using its component output at all.


I am assuming the Morph will support 1080i output for the 34XBR960 (to ensure 0 lag), and the D24 will need to accept up to 1080i. None of the displays will need to be driven simultaneously, so the output resolution will change depending on the display in use.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:18 am 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
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bobrocks95 wrote:
Unless the Morph will somehow allow passthrough AND upscaling at the same time I don't see how you're going to be using its component output at all.

The Morph has two outputs, HDMI and analog through a VGA connector. You can have the scaler output over HDMI and forward the unscaled video through the VGA connector. We can likely fit an optional line doubler for the analog output, then you can have the scaler output over hdmi and a line doubled picture over VGA.


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