PixelFX Morph

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Konsolkongen
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Konsolkongen »

Will the Infinity Switch be suitable for wall-mounting? I like the modular design quite a bit. I just hope each module doesn't end up being crazy expensive.
Woozle
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

Konsolkongen wrote:Will the Infinity Switch be suitable for wall-mounting? I like the modular design quite a bit. I just hope each module doesn't end up being crazy expensive.
The modules will have mounting holes on the back for wall mounting.
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VEGETA
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by VEGETA »

Woozle wrote:
VEGETA wrote:so it doesn't have regular inputs like scart and component, so that I must get the new switch for them?

also, what price and features over other competitors? does it use xilinx scaler ip ?
The Morph will ship with RCA to BNC adapters which will make it work with component and composite out of the box. Given that many people are using video switches anyway, it’s just a matter of getting a cable to connect from the switch to the Morph BNC.

It uses all custom Pixel FX IP. Feature wise, you can get a glimpse from this article https://docs.pixelfx.co/2021_review.html

Not only will it have a good polyphase scaler, motion adaptive deinterlacer, it has very capable system software with things like it’s web interface and sophisticated profile loading/management. The smoothing filter we implemented is very nice and honestly a bit better than is typical with FPGA products. With the Infinity Switch and per console profiles it really shines. Also has an HDMI input which is useful for using our nice CRT effects with Analogue products or MiSTer. It’s hard to cover everything in a forum post. We’ll post more detailed information between now and launch.
nice to see you include adapters for component, but still scart is a must for many. i would like a feature to get both rca and scart adapters.

I am interested into knowing the required knowledge to create such a video scaling fpga design using hdl code, if you can guide me to where to start and which examples demonstrate scaling.

Finally, the question that keeps getting repeated: the price? since now the design is a lot different than previously known. I don't think it will be like the 5x right?
fernan1234
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by fernan1234 »

bobrocks95 wrote:I'm sure that would be the case on the Morph's input, I meant on the Infinity Switch how each VGA input module has RCA audio inputs but no 3.5mm. I have 7 RGBS "VGA" cables and they all use 3.5mm audio connectors to an Extron switch. Ideally both could be offered but you never know the logistics of that.
Oh man I totally missed the link discussing the new Morph design and the Infinity Switch modules! You're right, a 3.5mm audio input on the module would be more convenient if you're connecting each of those console cables directly to the Morph/IS, but don't you get your audio output from the Extron switch? Those have a phoenix block connector output, and the most common adapters used with those are stereo RCA, so that's exactly what you'd use already going from the Extron Switch to the Morph. Or are you hoping to replace your Extron switch entirely with the Infinity Switch? That may be a large number of modules depending on your number of systems, though I can see a strong reason to want to do this if your Extron switch is not one of the models that can do auto-switching. I guess in the worst case you'd have to get a bunch of 3.5mm to RCA adapters.

I also have an all "VGA"/D-Sub RGBS setup using an Extron VGA auto switch that I'll keep using, so the change to BNC connectors is fantastic news, all I will need is a VGA-to-BNC cable, which are cheaply available in good quality. Also great to know that these inputs will support both video level sync and TTL, since when connecting a console directly it would be the former but from an Extron switch it's raised to TTL.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Konsolkongen »

Woozle wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:Will the Infinity Switch be suitable for wall-mounting? I like the modular design quite a bit. I just hope each module doesn't end up being crazy expensive.
The modules will have mounting holes on the back for wall mounting.
Excellent. That would clear up a lot of space in my setup :)
Woozle
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

VEGETA wrote:
Woozle wrote:
VEGETA wrote:so it doesn't have regular inputs like scart and component, so that I must get the new switch for them?

also, what price and features over other competitors? does it use xilinx scaler ip ?
The Morph will ship with RCA to BNC adapters which will make it work with component and composite out of the box. Given that many people are using video switches anyway, it’s just a matter of getting a cable to connect from the switch to the Morph BNC.

It uses all custom Pixel FX IP. Feature wise, you can get a glimpse from this article https://docs.pixelfx.co/2021_review.html

Not only will it have a good polyphase scaler, motion adaptive deinterlacer, it has very capable system software with things like it’s web interface and sophisticated profile loading/management. The smoothing filter we implemented is very nice and honestly a bit better than is typical with FPGA products. With the Infinity Switch and per console profiles it really shines. Also has an HDMI input which is useful for using our nice CRT effects with Analogue products or MiSTer. It’s hard to cover everything in a forum post. We’ll post more detailed information between now and launch.
nice to see you include adapters for component, but still scart is a must for many. i would like a feature to get both rca and scart adapters.

I am interested into knowing the required knowledge to create such a video scaling fpga design using hdl code, if you can guide me to where to start and which examples demonstrate scaling.

Finally, the question that keeps getting repeated: the price? since now the design is a lot different than previously known. I don't think it will be like the 5x right?
SCART to BNC adapters are readily available to buy, it would just add extra cost to include them so it makes sense to leave it to the end-user to buy it if they need it.

I can't really point to any specific resources for HDL, just years or trial and error + googling.

Since we haven't begun manufacturing and with the ongoing chip shortage, a lot could change before launch so we aren't announcing the price yet. Trying to get it as low as possible. It will be priced higher than the 5x, but it also contains more capable hardware and software so it will be priced accordingly.

edit: check out the Infinity Switch configuration tool https://twitter.com/PixelFXco/status/14 ... 85696?s=20 :)
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Kez
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Kez »

Will the HDMI switch/the Morph itself pass through 4k60?
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VEGETA
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by VEGETA »

SCART to BNC adapters are readily available to buy, it would just add extra cost to include them so it makes sense to leave it to the end-user to buy it if they need it.
for my purposes I prefer if it is included, since shipping and customs will be a lot of gotten separately. make it an option, not compulsory
I can't really point to any specific resources for HDL, just years or trial and error + googling.
I mean anyone can get an fpga dev kit and start making some vhdl code running, but how to learn video scaling stuff? is the code too much pages and lines or normal for such functions? like, also how it interacts with MCU commands to change resolutions and so on. I hope there is a good tutorial or beginner lessons for this. polyphase scaler doesn't have any resource online in fpga. I wonder what projects like 5x used if not using intel or xilinx ips.

thanks for the awesome features and development. I just want to point out the possibility of adding analog output for using it with downscalers if possible.
spmbx
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by spmbx »

For convenience i'd prefer a bnc->scart adapter to be included in the box too, at least for europe. Most likely the vast majority of euro users have scart. It was the de facto standard to use RGB with these consoles back in the day. I know you can order one separately but it would be nice to just have a complete package.

That aside, it looks like an amazing piece of kit, looking forward to reviews or overviews of the actual product!
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bobrocks95
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by bobrocks95 »

fernan1234 wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:I'm sure that would be the case on the Morph's input, I meant on the Infinity Switch how each VGA input module has RCA audio inputs but no 3.5mm. I have 7 RGBS "VGA" cables and they all use 3.5mm audio connectors to an Extron switch. Ideally both could be offered but you never know the logistics of that.
Oh man I totally missed the link discussing the new Morph design and the Infinity Switch modules! You're right, a 3.5mm audio input on the module would be more convenient if you're connecting each of those console cables directly to the Morph/IS, but don't you get your audio output from the Extron switch? Those have a phoenix block connector output, and the most common adapters used with those are stereo RCA, so that's exactly what you'd use already going from the Extron Switch to the Morph. Or are you hoping to replace your Extron switch entirely with the Infinity Switch? That may be a large number of modules depending on your number of systems, though I can see a strong reason to want to do this if your Extron switch is not one of the models that can do auto-switching. I guess in the worst case you'd have to get a bunch of 3.5mm to RCA adapters.

I also have an all "VGA"/D-Sub RGBS setup using an Extron VGA auto switch that I'll keep using, so the change to BNC connectors is fantastic news, all I will need is a VGA-to-BNC cable, which are cheaply available in good quality. Also great to know that these inputs will support both video level sync and TTL, since when connecting a console directly it would be the former but from an Extron switch it's raised to TTL.
My Extron does auto-switching, but I'm considering replacing it entirely with the Infinity Switch because the dream of having auto-selecting profiles is finally there. So in that case it would be kind of silly to upgrade and then need 8+ RCA adapters. Hopefully it's successful and they can offer more module variants down the line. And we don't know price yet so it's likely I'll just get the Morph to start out with and then I just need the one VGA to BNC cable.

I'm sure PixelFX debated back and forth on the input situation. Though now that I look again, with only 5 BNC connectors, how are you supposed to get RGBS + Audio or RGBHV + Audio into it? The 3.5mm jack works well enough for RGBHV sources since they're going to be VGA and likely have a 3.5mm connection anyway, but I think nearly every other situation is going to require a 3.5mm to RCA adapter, which I actually *would* include with the Morph since they'd be fairly cheap (a dollar or two wholesale vs. $20+ for a proper SCART to BNC cable) and I would argue necessary for the vast majority of setups.

So then why have 3.5mm audio on the Morph itself and then no 3.5mm audio on the Infinity inputs :P
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McKie1
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by McKie1 »

Love the module idea.

Just hoping toslink/spdif/coaxial input on modules and not just base module.

Our retro consoles and retro a/v gear are ready and waiting ;)
Woozle
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

bobrocks95 wrote: So then why have 3.5mm audio on the Morph itself and then no 3.5mm audio on the Infinity inputs :P
The Infinity Switch has a 3.5mm audio output, the Morph connectivity is optimized for usage with the Infinity Switch.
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parodius
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by parodius »

Is the Infinity Switch also designed to be used as a standalone product ?
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bobrocks95
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by bobrocks95 »

parodius wrote:Is the Infinity Switch also designed to be used as a standalone product ?
Followup tweets from Dan confirmed that yes, it can be used standalone.
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dojima
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by dojima »

How many BNC connectors are needed for VGA? Googling shows adapters with 1, 4, 5...even one with 8. If 5, what signal is being output through each connector? Thanks in advance.
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Fudoh
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Fudoh »

woozle, what's the design concept behind the switch modules? Can you give us an idea of the dimensions for each module (especially the depth)? I assume these will snap together on the sides? Are they connected to each other on the sides or is each single one connected to the main module?
Woozle
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

Fudoh wrote:woozle, what's the design concept behind the switch modules? Can you give us an idea of the dimensions for each module (especially the depth)? I assume these will snap together on the sides? Are they connected to each other on the sides or is each single one connected to the main module?
In an 8 input configuration it’s similar in size to a gscartsw, just a bit longer. The module pcbs plug together on the sides, but the real structural support will be provided by the molded enclosure. More details on that will come later.
Woozle
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

dojima wrote:How many BNC connectors are needed for VGA? Googling shows adapters with 1, 4, 5...even one with 8. If 5, what signal is being output through each connector? Thanks in advance.
5 for red, green, blue, horizontal sync, and vertical sync.
SuperSpongo
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by SuperSpongo »

Woozle wrote: It will be priced higher than the 5x, but it also contains more capable hardware and software so it will be priced accordingly.
Gotta say, this came as a bit of a surprise. I thought maybe the concept of modularity was (among other reasons) introduced to keep the base cost at or below the price of the 5X.
Now it's looking like if I want to buy a Morph and an Infinity Switch with one or two modules I'm looking at a very high pricepoint. Which is fine I guess, but this firmly puts the Morph into the "Super-enthusiast-only" category.
Last edited by SuperSpongo on Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kez
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Kez »

SuperSpongo wrote:
Woozle wrote: It will be priced higher than the 5x, but it also contains more capable hardware and software so it will be priced accordingly.
Gotta say, this came as a bit of a surprise. I thought maybe the concept of modularity was (among other reasons) introduced to keep the base cost at or below the price of the 5X.
Now it's looking like if I want to buy a Morph and an Infinity Switch with one or two modules I'm looking at a very high pricepoint. Which is fine I guess, but this firmly puts the Morph into the "Super-enthusiast-only" category.
REDACTED ...My guess would be that the Morph will be at least in the ballpark of the RT5x/expected OSSC Pro price...REDACTED
Last edited by Kez on Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
SuperSpongo
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by SuperSpongo »

Yeah, that's a bit of an exaggeration on my part in an uncertain situation. I'll edit it so it won't trigger more people. fair point.

It's all wild speculation at this point. But being in Europe an having seen the net price to get a RT5X to my doorstep, I can't help but being pessimistic.
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Kez
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Kez »

Yeah good shout, it probably doesn't help anyone to throw out speculative numbers. :lol: I have edited my post accordingly.
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bobrocks95
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by bobrocks95 »

Estimate from Woozle in this thread earlier was $350. Given chip shortages and design changes since announcement I would expect around $400. The board design was seemingly simplified, maybe that $350 is still possible, but $400 sounds reasonable for the product I've seen so far.

If anything is currently available on the PixelFX site that can give you an idea of international shipping + import fees. Maybe European users with an N64Digital can chime in?
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vrunk11
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by vrunk11 »

Is the film mode still a part of the morph or as it being abandoned with the redesign? Maybe it could be added later with a firmware update?
I was really interested to finally see a modern scaler that can do lots of useful features for VCR and laserdisc not only I know it's not the main interest for the majority of you but we also really need a new good scaler for analog media

is the CVBS / YC decoding made in software or hardware ? cause if it's software it could be possible to do a pal transform decoder (that have a near perfect PAL decodding) links : http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/pal/

thanks :D
Woozle
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

SuperSpongo wrote:
Woozle wrote: It will be priced higher than the 5x, but it also contains more capable hardware and software so it will be priced accordingly.
Gotta say, this came as a bit of a surprise. I thought maybe the concept of modularity was (among other reasons) introduced to keep the base cost at or below the price of the 5X.
Now it's looking like if I want to buy a Morph and an Infinity Switch with one or two modules I'm looking at a very high pricepoint. Which is fine I guess, but this firmly puts the Morph into the "Super-enthusiast-only" category.
The Morph itself has more capable input connectivity with high quality gold-plated BNC connectors, supporting a wider range of signals. The Morph supports native 444 RGB with no transcoding to YPbPr first, RGsB, RGBHV, 75 Ohm and TTL syncs, HDMI input, and digital audio input. It really packs a lot of quality hardware. Using an Infinity Switch vs existing switching devices will probably end up cheaper, due to not needing various input signal converters (or in some cases two switches, one for scart and one for component) and/or transcoders to work with the scaler.
Last edited by Woozle on Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Woozle
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

vrunk11 wrote:Is the film mode still a part of the morph or as it being abandoned with the redesign? Maybe it could be added later with a firmware update?
I was really interested to finally see a modern scaler that can do lots of useful features for VCR and laserdisc not only I know it's not the main interest for the majority of you but we also really need a new good scaler for analog media

is the CVBS / YC decoding made in software or hardware ? cause if it's software it could be possible to do a pal transform decoder (that have a near perfect PAL decodding) links : http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/pal/

thanks :D
There will still be film targeted features, but the 3D comb filter had to be removed. The chip which implemented it turned out to be bad in a lot of ways, which wasn't worth compromising other aspects of the scaler just to have it. CVBS/YC uses a hardware decoder, but in theory the CVBS/YC signal can be decoded by the FPGA as well using the raw analog data from the signals.
SuperSpongo
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by SuperSpongo »

I especially liked the analog output for downscaling and frame-doubling (240p120) of your original design. This seems to have moved to the Infinity Switch, if I understood correctly?
Will we be able to use downscaling with an external DAC with only the base unit? Are those features still planned?
Woozle
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by Woozle »

SuperSpongo wrote:I especially liked the analog output for downscaling and frame-doubling (240p120) of your original design. This seems to have moved to the Infinity Switch, if I understood correctly?
Will we be able to use downscaling with an external DAC with only the base unit? Are those features still planned?
The Infinity Switch doesn't downscale process the inputs, but it does have dual analog output which covers a lot of use cases for the old Morph design analog output. The Morph will support downscaling for use with an external DAC.
SuperSpongo
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by SuperSpongo »

Great, thank you for clearing that one up for me! :D
strayan
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Re: PixelFX Morph

Post by strayan »

If I want to downscale a 480p line doubled source (like the 480p output you get from a ultrahdmi modded n64 or some PS2 games in 480p mode) to 240p for upscaling by the morph will I have to buy a second morph (one to downscale to 240p and the other one to upscale 240p to a higher resolution)?

Also, will there be reduced blanking timings alongside custom output resolutions?
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