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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:23 am 



Joined: 06 Mar 2021
Posts: 22
Woozle wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
Unless the Morph will somehow allow passthrough AND upscaling at the same time I don't see how you're going to be using its component output at all.

The Morph has two outputs, HDMI and analog through a VGA connector. You can have the scaler output over HDMI and forward the unscaled video through the VGA connector. We can likely fit an optional line doubler for the analog output, then you can have the scaler output over hdmi and a line doubled picture over VGA.


Wow, that's actually even better featured than I had imagined. That would avoid needing to turn on the last display to toggle output modes (unless this is able to be toggled via remote).

The VGA output is not limited in resolution, correct? This is only independent output resolution of the HDMI output? So, the VGA output could feed a FW900 or 1920x1440 display?


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:34 am 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 205
Location: Florida
anexanhume wrote:
Woozle wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
Unless the Morph will somehow allow passthrough AND upscaling at the same time I don't see how you're going to be using its component output at all.

The Morph has two outputs, HDMI and analog through a VGA connector. You can have the scaler output over HDMI and forward the unscaled video through the VGA connector. We can likely fit an optional line doubler for the analog output, then you can have the scaler output over hdmi and a line doubled picture over VGA.


Wow, that's actually even better featured than I had imagined. That would avoid needing to turn on the last display to toggle output modes (unless this is able to be toggled via remote).

The VGA output is not limited in resolution, correct? This is only independent output resolution of the HDMI output? So, the VGA output could feed a FW900 or 1920x1440 display?

The VGA output is limited to 480p due to bandwidth of the DAC. A motivated individual could swap the DAC (a small QFP chip with no ground pad) with a higher bandwidth model but I’m not sure if they go up to 1920x1440.

As for control, the Morph supports CEC, basic IR remotes, and web control. The menu system is the same as the N64Digital, shown here https://twitter.com/pixelfxco/status/13 ... 35649?s=21


Last edited by Woozle on Tue May 04, 2021 2:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 1:39 am 



Joined: 06 Mar 2021
Posts: 22
Woozle wrote:
anexanhume wrote:
Woozle wrote:
The Morph has two outputs, HDMI and analog through a VGA connector. You can have the scaler output over HDMI and forward the unscaled video through the VGA connector. We can likely fit an optional line doubler for the analog output, then you can have the scaler output over hdmi and a line doubled picture over VGA.


Wow, that's actually even better featured than I had imagined. That would avoid needing to turn on the last display to toggle output modes (unless this is able to be toggled via remote).

The VGA output is not limited in resolution, correct? This is only independent output resolution of the HDMI output? So, the VGA output could feed a FW900 or 1920x1440 display?

The VGA output is limited to 480p due to bandwidth of the DAC. A motivated individual could swap the DAC with a higher bandwidth model but I’m not sure if they go up to 1920x1440.


Thanks. That seems unnecessary given HDMI->VGA should be able to handle that. It does leave me wondering what the best way to feed a PVM/BVM more than 480p would be though.

edit: I hope the DAC in question is not a BGA…


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:05 am 


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Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 2548
Location: Kentucky
Oh, huge difference when you're not driving all of that simultaneously. Yeah there's definitely some ideal swiss cheese routing there, but it's going to take some planning.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:12 am 


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Joined: 06 Oct 2015
Posts: 2559
Location: Montréal, Canada
You'd be hard pressed to find an HDMI to VGA adapter that will do 1920x1440 either. Most top out at 1080p60.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:17 am 



Joined: 06 Mar 2021
Posts: 22
Guspaz wrote:
You'd be hard pressed to find an HDMI to VGA adapter that will do 1920x1440 either. Most top out at 1080p60.

True. I’ve seen some success with similar adapters exceeding their spec going from DP to VGA though.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:46 pm 


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Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 260
Any chance we might get a ballpark cost, now that the 5X is in reviewers hands, and both this and the OSSC Pro are on the horizon? We talking 300$? 500$? 800$?


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:00 am 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 205
Location: Florida
NormalFish wrote:
Any chance we might get a ballpark cost, now that the 5X is in reviewers hands, and both this and the OSSC Pro are on the horizon? We talking 300$? 500$? 800$?
Current plan is $350.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:31 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1391
That'd be a great value for the price considering that in specs and features it's strictly richer than the RT5X.

Can't wait for it. The 5X will probably tide me over in the meantime but it hurts having to use SCART for RGB.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:42 am 


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Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 260
Woozle wrote:
NormalFish wrote:
Any chance we might get a ballpark cost, now that the 5X is in reviewers hands, and both this and the OSSC Pro are on the horizon? We talking 300$? 500$? 800$?
Current plan is $350.

Jesus. Best of luck, I don't envy you folks trying to budget these projects these days. If you can manage though, that's an incredible value proposition.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:46 am 


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$350usd would be an amazing bargain price point for such a robust set of features. Will you follow mikechi2's lead and ask Fudoh to test it?
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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:55 am 


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$350 is acceptable for a device that can basically do almost everything that the 5X and GBS-C + a bit of OSSC Pro combined can do, if you can make that happen. I got a 5X coming to cover digital conversion, but Im waiting to see which of these next devices, if either, can do 240p120 frame doubling with motion interpolation over VGA out. Whichever can do it with the least amount of fuss will get my money. Having analog out built right in the box is a very strong start for the Morph.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 5:04 am 



Joined: 06 Feb 2021
Posts: 8
Woozle wrote:
NormalFish wrote:
Any chance we might get a ballpark cost, now that the 5X is in reviewers hands, and both this and the OSSC Pro are on the horizon? We talking 300$? 500$? 800$?
Current plan is $350.


That is awesome. Can you share anything about when it will be released? 2021?


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:15 am 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 205
Location: Florida
orange808 wrote:
$350usd would be an amazing bargain price point for such a robust set of features. Will you follow mikechi2's lead and ask Fudoh to test it?
Already did :)

Josh128 wrote:
$350 is acceptable for a device that can basically do almost everything that the 5X and GBS-C + a bit of OSSC Pro combined can do.
Not just a bit and if anything it's the other way around. The Morph's custom scaler is more capable than the Intel Scaler IP currently being used in the OSSC Pro, it has Composite/S-Video support, a built-in DAC, and a very capable wifi system processor.

Jefferson wrote:
That is awesome. Can you share anything about when it will be released? 2021?
Chip shortages complicate things but we're doing everything we can to get it out the door by the end of 2021.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 11:53 am 


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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 1277
Quote:
Not just a bit and if anything it's the other way around. The Morph's custom scaler is more capable than the Intel Scaler IP currently being used in the OSSC Pro, it has Composite/S-Video support, a built-in DAC, and a very capable wifi system processor.


It sounds like you just threw down the gauntlet. Lets get it on! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 12:11 pm 



Joined: 17 Mar 2018
Posts: 171
Location: Germany
Them's fightin' words! :D
I'm really excited for the Morph, the built-in DAC is so cool!


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:21 pm 



Joined: 06 Mar 2021
Posts: 22
Woozle wrote:
orange808 wrote:
$350usd would be an amazing bargain price point for such a robust set of features. Will you follow mikechi2's lead and ask Fudoh to test it?
Already did :)

Josh128 wrote:
$350 is acceptable for a device that can basically do almost everything that the 5X and GBS-C + a bit of OSSC Pro combined can do.
Not just a bit and if anything it's the other way around. The Morph's custom scaler is more capable than the Intel Scaler IP currently being used in the OSSC Pro, it has Composite/S-Video support, a built-in DAC, and a very capable wifi system processor.

Jefferson wrote:
That is awesome. Can you share anything about when it will be released? 2021?
Chip shortages complicate things but we're doing everything we can to get it out the door by the end of 2021.

Oof, gonna be a tough wait.

Is the DAC in question BGA? Sounds like a fun mod to try and change it.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 2:29 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2015
Posts: 205
Location: Florida
anexanhume wrote:
Is the DAC in question BGA? Sounds like a fun mod to try and change it.

The package is 48-LQFP, not too hard to swap.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 10:50 pm 



Joined: 09 Nov 2018
Posts: 8
How will the scaler handle resolution switches on the HDMI input? In particular, I'm thinking of GCVideo users with a handful of GameCube games that have brief signal dropouts over HDMI. Either way, very excited for this.


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 8:02 pm 


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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 304
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Guspaz wrote:
You'd be hard pressed to find an HDMI to VGA adapter that will do 1920x1440 either. Most top out at 1080p60.


On paper this is true, but many will exceed their listed specs in practice. I picked one up from Walmart a couple of months ago (it's just their generic store brand) that works fine with 1920x1440x60. That's close to the max spec of my monitor so I'm not sure what its upper limit is.

It's pretty hit or miss though, I probably just got lucky with that unit.


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 Post subject: Feature Requests
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 4:20 pm 


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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 281
Location: Canada
This is looking to be truly amazing--based soley on what's been announced to date!

A few feature requestsI hope you can speak to:

1. Can profiles for use on HD CRTs like the Sony Super Fine Pitch (1440x1080i) and Hi-Scan (853x1080i) be included?

I think there's some wizardy involved in maximizing the lowest latency, native/most compatible resolution for these sets. Some people have calculated custom resolutions to provide via PC, but I could never get the hang of correctly calcuating pixel clocks.

I've tried feeding different scaled resolutions to a SFP set before via a DVDO Edge and an Extron 301HD with limited success. Lots of dropouts.

2. Can the unit store a Look Up Table (LUT)?

Perhaps multiple LUTs, selectable via a menu? I pitched this for the OSSC Pro but there didn't seem to be much interest in something not central to gaming. Your project appears to be more broad. The cheapest way to get an external LUT for a display right now is with a black magic mini converter, but that requires a hop to SDI first at additional cost/strict standards compatibility. These also only provide a 33pt LUT, whereas older units like the eeColor can do 65pt, but suffer other issues (like only being able to apply LUTs to 720p, 1080i/p).

You will sell units based on robust LUT support alone!

3. Could you provide a pattern generator?

Not only for basic calibrations, but also to generate color swatches for aiding in LUT creation?
Not sure if there'd be a way to integrate with DisplayCAL as a pattern generator--maybe over WiFi the same way you can use Resolve as a pattern generator on the same network? DisplayCAL is free to use, and automated. If you could load up a "SNES palette" in DisplayCAL for instance, and then let it run through the appropriate patches, prompting the PixelFX Morph to change the patch after being read you would have the world's first video-game centric automated colour calibration device.

I know these suggestions might stray far beyond the original intentions for the device, but I've never seen such an ambitious proposal for a consumer-priced scaler. Hoping you can speak to these ideas, their feasibility, and the likelihood you could devote resources to their integration. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: PixelFX Morph
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 8:12 pm 


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Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 1277
Woozle wrote:
The VGA output is limited to 480p due to bandwidth of the DAC. A motivated individual could swap the DAC (a small QFP chip with no ground pad) with a higher bandwidth model but I’m not sure if they go up to 1920x1440.

As for control, the Morph supports CEC, basic IR remotes, and web control. The menu system is the same as the N64Digital, shown here https://twitter.com/pixelfxco/status/13 ... 35649?s=21


So 480p / 31KHz. So 240p120 scan doubling should also be possible, correct? What about the kind of motion interpolation Marqs was talking about in the OSSC Pro thread to complement it? Could you also do that?


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