Sony KV-27FS100 Misalignment Isse?

[Tempest_2084]

The fact that you seem unaware of how dangerous putting your fingers anywhere near an energized flyback transformer can be makes me think you probably shouldnt be attempting any of this. Be very careful bro.

Oh I know the flyback is dangerous, I just assumed that the adjustment knobs would be safe to touch but I see what you mean about cracked insulation and possible jumping voltage. I don't see any reason to be touching it anyway as the focus isn't a problem (at least I haven't noticed). If I do adjust it I'll be sure to use the insulated adjustment tool.

Honestly I'll probably just adjust the h-stat and call it a day. Maybe see if the rings can help if h-stat doesn't do the trick or possibly try a convergence strip for the corner (although I've never had much luck with those, there's an art to placing them I just can't seem to master). I don't see any reason to try playing with the yoke or anything else.

[matt]

Oh I know the flyback is dangerous, I just assumed that the adjustment knobs would be safe to touch but I see what you mean about cracked insulation and possible jumping voltage. I don't see any reason to be touching it anyway as the focus isn't a problem (at least I haven't noticed). If I do adjust it I'll be sure to use the insulated adjustment tool.

TBH I've been adjusting flyback pots for years with bare hands and never had problems. But don't take that as good advice - it is better to play it safe and you will get more precise adjustments if you use an insulated tool.

Honestly I'll probably just adjust the h-stat and call it a day. Maybe see if the rings can help if h-stat doesn't do the trick or possibly try a convergence strip for the corner (although I've never had much luck with those, there's an art to placing them I just can't seem to master). I don't see any reason to try playing with the yoke or anything else.

Having done convergence ring adjustments a number of times, it's a huge headache and something I try to avoid at all costs. If the H Stat can get you to where it looks good enough, might as well leave it at that.

Moving the yoke can help a lot with purity issues, and it will correct the horizontal bowing issues that are common in large Wegas. Again, the risk/benefit depends how noticeable these are during gameplay.

[Tempest_2084]

Moving the yoke can help a lot with purity issues, and it will correct the horizontal bowing issues that are common in large Wegas. Again, the risk/benefit depends how noticeable these are during gameplay.

Yeah I have that issue on mine. Which direction did you move it to fix the horizontal bowing? How easy is it to screw everything up and not be able to get it back to where it was? That's my biggest concern with moving the yoke.

Oh and there appear to be two clamps on the tube (I assume because it's so large). I assume I'd have to loosen both clamps before moving the yoke?

[Josh128]

Tilting the yoke forward/back very slightly will help with the horizontal bowing. Yes, you will have to loosen both of those clamps and then unstick / break the glue where the yoke is glued to the shims/ tube.

I dont mean to scare you, but its better to scare a little safety into someone than have a very painful and potentially serious mishap. Matt is right about adjusting rings / yoke. It is a pain, and hard to get desired results sometimes. One of the biggest problems is being able to see the screen as you adjust things in the back. The slightest movements of the yoke can make big differences in purity and geometry and for sets 27" and higher, some kind of mirror setup and/or a camera pointed at the screen with a monitor that you can observe while making movements in the back can be extremely helpful / absolutely necessary.

If you look at it as a learning experience, it can be worth it. Once you've done it, you think twice about doing it again! I have a very slight horizontal bow in my 36" FS210, and I had the back off twice making tweaks but I couldnt bring myself to adjust the yoke because the set was so big I could not rig up a good enough way to view the screen as I made the adjustments, and the adjustments needed for the bowing would have been so slight it would have been impossible.

A small ~17" LCD monitor for observation, cabled to a strategically placed camera giving a good close centered shot of the screen would have been needed and I just didnt have the heart to set all that up for such a small issue. But it was REALLY hard to not chase that rabbit down the hole!

[Tempest_2084]

Tilting the yoke forward/back very slightly will help with the horizontal bowing. Yes, you will have to loosen both of those clamps and then unstick / break the glue where the yoke is glued to the shims/ tube.

I dont mean to scare you, but its better to scare a little safety into someone than have a very painful and potentially serious mishap. Matt is right about adjusting rings / yoke. It is a pain, and hard to get desired results sometimes. One of the biggest problems is being able to see the screen as you adjust things in the back. The slightest movements of the yoke can make big differences in purity and geometry and for sets 27" and higher, some kind of mirror setup and/or a camera pointed at the screen with a monitor that you can observe while making movements in the back can be extremely helpful / absolutely necessary.

If you look at it as a learning experience, it can be worth it. Once you've done it, you think twice about doing it again! I have a very slight horizontal bow in my 36" FS210, and I had the back off twice making tweaks but I couldnt bring myself to adjust the yoke because the set was so big I could not rig up a good enough way to view the screen as I made the adjustments, and the adjustments needed for the bowing would have been so slight it would have been impossible.

A small ~17" LCD monitor for observation, cabled to a strategically placed camera giving a good close centered shot of the screen would have been needed and I just didnt have the heart to set all that up for such a small issue. But it was REALLY hard to not chase that rabbit down the hole!

Yeah I'm not going to bother with the rings or the yoke. I did that once on a 12" monitor that was so screwed up that I really had nothing to lose. Thankfully I was able to get the yoke back to where it needed to be (I basically just shoved it into the grooves on the pads and prayed that that was the right location, but I never did get the rings back to 100% the correct locations. There's still a slight misalignment that you can see on super fine text that I can't fix. I don't want to risk that with this TV as I don't have a backup for it (well I do have a 20" PVM but that has some geometry issues of its own).

I think 20" might be my limit for doing something like a yoke adjustment since with something that size you can position yourself so you can see the front of the screen and still have your hand on the yoke. With this beast there's no way to do that (at least not safely). My luck tends to run in the "Perfect! Just one more little tweak aaaaaand it's ruined" direction anyway. I've learned to leave well enough alone.

Any tips on convergence strip positioning?

[Tempest_2084]

Ok, the H-Stat fixed some of my issue, but I still have the bottom white lines of the grid (which I would have said are the horizontal ones) way out of alignment. I assume I need to adjust the V-Stat to fix that which I fear means the magnets.

http://atariprotos.com/temp/grid5.jpg

It's interesting that I noticed the center of the screen seemed a little blurry (the scanlines merged into a solid line) so I adjusted the focus a bit (with a tool) and that fixed the center but then the corners became very blurry. I think I've found a compromise I'm willing to live with, but I wonder if there's a way to compensate for this. I know the corners on these models are always going to have issues though.

I think I've done all I can without moving the yoke which I don't think I'll do. Unless anyone has some last minute advice? Here's what it looks like now:


http://atariprotos.com/temp/grid6.jpg

[Tempest_2084]

BTW here's something else I noticed with a different grid pattern. Notice how the grid at the top left and right hooks? This make a noticeable ripple when the image scrolls. Is there a way to fix that?

http://atariprotos.com/temp/grid7.jpg

[Josh128]

Looking decent! How does the text that you posted earlier look now?

Service menu item "UCP" if you have it can help with that outward curve at the top. "LCP" is the adjustment for the bottom.

There is no "VSTAT" pot for any Trin model Im familiar with. Only the rings can help. Also, that downward squish you have on the top left can possibly be helped a bit with some strategic magnet placement and/or permalloy strips.

[Tempest_2084]

Looking decent! How does the text that you posted earlier look now?

Service menu item "UCP" if you have it can help with that outward curve at the top. "LCP" is the adjustment for the bottom.

There is no "VSTAT" pot for any Trin model Im familiar with. Only the rings can help. Also, that downward squish you have on the top left can possibly be helped a bit with some strategic magnet placement and/or permalloy strips.

Pretty good, I'm happy with it:

http://atariprotos.com/temp/nestv5.jpg

The main issue want to fix is that misconvergence on the bottom while horizontal lines. You can see even in the text picture there's blue shadows around the text in the middle and right (a little on the left too). Is that a yoke adjustment or a ring adjustment?

It may be a moot point. those rings are SERIOUSLY glued in place. I chipped away at it for a bit with a knife but they still don't want to move and I really don't want to put a lot of force on them. The yoke is the same thing, it won't move and I'm afraid to put any real force on it least I break something. I may be at the end of what I can do.

This is the best I've been able to do. I'm pretty happy with it honestly. The more I mess with this the worse it's going to get I think.

http://atariprotos.com/temp/grid9.jpg

[Tempest_2084]

Here's where I ended up. I think this is as good as I can make it.

http://atariprotos.com/temp/grid10.jpg

[Josh128]

Did the UCP / LCP help with those outward bending lines at the top? Also, what did you do to fix that little sag on the top left edge I mentioned earlier? Magnets or strips? That looks a lot better too.

[Tempest_2084]

Did the UCP / LCP help with those outward bending lines at the top? Also, what did you do to fix that little sag on the top left edge I mentioned earlier? Magnets or strips? That looks a lot better too.

I kind of wiggled the yoke a bit after loosening one of the screws. To be honest all I think it did was move the bowing from the top to the bottom of the screen, but I don't want to mess with it anymore out of fear of making it worse.

I tried playing with strips, but I couldn't really get them to do anything, at least nothing I wanted (just screwing with the color alignment). I don't have the proper kind of magnets for a TV, I think you need specific strength/size ones.

UPC/LPC helped a little, but it's not perfect. Maybe I need to try it again?

Do you think it can get much better with any other simple adjustments? The color alignment on the bottom horizontal bars is still pretty bad, but I can't loosen those rings! That's what I'd need to fix that right?

[Josh128]

The TLV reactor, if you have one, can maybe help the vertical blue convergence at the top and bottom of the screen. It should be on the board on the top of the yoke and you adjust it by screwing and unscrewing the core with a small allen wrench (moves it in and out of the coil). Lookin at the pic you posted, it might be the coil closest to the tube on that yoke board. Alternatively, you can insert a small ferrous rod in and out and it will also affect it. (moves it in and out of the coil).

Other than that, its going to be the VSTAT ring magnets and thats probably about it.

[Tempest_2084]

The TLV reactor, if you have one, can maybe help the vertical blue convergence at the top and bottom of the screen. It should be on the board on the top of the yoke and you adjust it by screwing and unscrewing the core with a small allen wrench (moves it in and out of the coil). Lookin at the pic you posted, it might be the coil closest to the tube on that yoke board. Alternatively, you can insert a small ferrous rod in and out and it will also affect it. (moves it in and out of the coil).

Other than that, its going to be the VSTAT ring magnets and thats probably about it.

I'm thinking the magnets are the way to go. Any tips for getting them unstuck?

[Tempest_2084]

BTW is this the TLV reactor you're talking about? It has a hex hole like you said (I do have a plastic tool that will fit), but it also has a dial on top. Can that be used with a rubber gloved hand?

http://atariprotos.com/temp/tlv.jpg
http://atariprotos.com/temp/tlv2.jpg

I don't see a way to actually adjust this. The little clip on the end looks to be attached to the core so there's no way to turn it (I thought it was just holding it in place). Am I missing something?

[Josh128]

That should be it. Maybe that wheel can be rotated if you break the white glue off? If not, can a ferrous rod be inserted into it? That will at least increase the reactance so you can see what it does to the screen, but it wont help if you need to decrease the reactance. You should be safe to touch this with your bare hand, just use one hand and make sure the other hand isnt touching anything on the set. You could also maybe turn the wheel with a flat screwdriver.

It looks like rotating that glued wheel is definitely the adjustment.

[Tempest_2084]

That should be it. Maybe that wheel can be rotated if you break the white glue off? If not, can a ferrous rod be inserted into it? That will at least increase the reactance so you can see what it does to the screen, but it wont help if you need to decrease the reactance. You should be safe to touch this with your bare hand, just use one hand and make sure the other hand isnt touching anything on the set. You could also maybe turn the wheel with a flat screwdriver.

It looks like rotating that glued wheel is definitely the adjustment.

I freed the wheel, but I can't really move it because the wheel tries to move that rod which is attached to that clip. It's really weird.

[Taiyaki]

You made progress fast. At this point I'd say looks ready to game on. If you want to bring down those upper corners you could do it with permalloy strips but you might make convergence a tad worse in the process.

[Tempest_2084]

You made progress fast. At this point I'd say looks ready to game on. If you want to bring down those upper corners you could do it with permalloy strips but you might make convergence a tad worse in the process.

Yeah I thought about trying that today. But you're right in that I think it's as good as it's going to get with my skill level.

[Tempest_2084]

And at the end of the day the picture looks just fine (too bad my phone can't take a decent picture). I think I worry too much sometimes.

http://atariprotos.com/temp/smb1.jpg

[Taiyaki]

Looks very nice. I love the FS100 post tweaking. You're going to get some great gaming on that.