Will OSSC Pro handle 480i better than Framemeister

[VEGETA]

This was an interesting read for sure, especially that I tried OSSC with PS2 but the results weren't that nice due to flickering.

I wanted to ask about motion adaptive de-interlacing for 480i60 output of PS2, does it produce 30 fps or 60fps progressive output? I know that bobbing the 60i material will output 60 frames and weaving will deliver 30 frames, but motion adaptive seems to use both of them so what is the output gonna be?

I believe retro consoles up to PS1 era uses 240p @ 60 frames per second, not 30 frames or 60 fields but full 60 frames. is this correct? while 480i60 materials is more dodgy since it is 60 fields. For Dreamcast 480p, I read that most games deliver 60 fps except for some cutscenes or certain sub-areas.

So bob deinterlacing is just very simple and fast but with flickering and smooth look, while motion-adaptive is more advanced, uses a frame buffer (=lag), but better results... right? however, what output frame rates do they produce and how does it preserve the original look and feel of the games?

thanks

[Fudoh]

on a hardware deinterlacer you always get 60fps output. The concept of getting a 30fps output is something inherited from early days of software deinterlacing.

Using weave on a hardware deinterlacer (like the 5X) will also get you 60fps. Every field is used twice here.

240p uses 60 frames, right. This doesn't say anything about the in-game fps though. A 480i60 can also just be 30fps, in which case you could use weave for a perfect deinterlacing if you run a candence detector along the side (this way each field is only used once and the resulting frame gets output twice - - that's also how 25fps PAL film material is properly deinterlaced).

[H6rdc0re]

Would it be possible to make a custom firmware for the Framemeister? I wouldn’t be surprised if some of it’s weaknesses could be fixed by custom firmware. I’m sure the 240p/480i switch can be fixed as it has a framebuffer. Perhaps it’s 480p could also be fixed. It would be interesting to see if anyone will ever try.

Currently the Framemeister still has the best deinterlacing and is still a pretty good scaler.

[Kez]

I'm sure it's technically possible, but the platform is locked down so it would require discovery of an exploit, then something like a reverse engineering of existing firmware and creation of a new firmware. This would require an individual, or group of individuals who are extremely knowledgeable and motivated. Considering the FM is one of the most expensive gaming-focused scalers around, there are a bunch of alternatives on the way or already out, some of which are completely open source and cheaper.. I just don't think there are compelling enough reasons for people to put in that kind of work. More likely that one of the upcoming scalers will eventually arrive at a deinterlacing method that matches or surpasses the FM.

[VEGETA]

on a hardware deinterlacer you always get 60fps output. The concept of getting a 30fps output is something inherited from early days of software deinterlacing.

Using weave on a hardware deinterlacer (like the 5X) will also get you 60fps. Every field is used twice here.

240p uses 60 frames, right. This doesn't say anything about the in-game fps though. A 480i60 can also just be 30fps, in which case you could use weave for a perfect deinterlacing if you run a candence detector along the side (this way each field is only used once and the resulting frame gets output twice - - that's also how 25fps PAL film material is properly deinterlaced).

I am talking about hardware processing such as using OSSC, 5X, FM, etc.. devices.

I am an anime fansubber (mainly encoder), and I used to use AVISynth to do deinterlacing and inverse-telecine process to retrieve back the 23.976 progressive fps material.. Now we use Vapoursynth to do so since it is the modern and awesome alternative to AVISynth. This is how I know weave, bob, IVTC, etc... stuff, that is why I asked since most of the time we get back the 30fps material from 60i ones.

So to conclude, you always get 60fps from deinterlacing if it is bob, weave, or motion-adaptive?

Would it be possible to make a custom firmware for the Framemeister?

FM uses an ASIC to do scaling and so on, similar to GBS control. These ICs are always controlled via either I2C or SPI digital protocol which ANY microcontroller can produce. Let's assume it is I2C, which is 2 wires\pins. Now, we can get a cheap MCU and hook its I2C pins to the I2C pins of the scaler IC... also maybe lift the I2C pins of original MCU on board so that it doesn't send its commands.

The only problem is... which commands should we send? We need to have the fully-detailed datasheet and support documents such as registers and so on... so we can program our MCU to send required commands. I presume such a datasheet\support document doesn't exist for FM IC. However, it exist for GBS control which allowed the mod.

I wouldn't call it "custom firmware" but rather a new software from scratch. You don't mod it, you replace it.

[Fudoh]

So to conclude, you always get 60fps from deinterlacing if it is bob, weave, or motion-adaptive?

yes, you do.

[Guspaz]

Fields as ABCDE:

Bob
Frame 1: AA
Frame 2: BB
Frame 3: CC
Frame 4: DD

Weave
Frame 1: AB
Frame 2: BC
Frame 3: CD
Frame 4: DE

Either way you get 60 frames output for 60 fields input. Motion adaptive deinterlacing uses weave when there's no motion and bob when there is motion, though it's a bit more complicated than that in practice.