Mayflash Magic NS vs Brook Wingman NS - Switch Lag Tests

[BloodHawk]

I have been using the Mayflash Magic NS for a while now, but I recently saw that Brook released their “new” Switch adapter (the Wingman NS) back in October of last year and since wondered which adapter has less input lag, so after finally finding some time I decided to do some measurements between them (using an XB360 controller via wireless dongle).

First I will go over the setup for those who are interested:

I took slow motion video with my iPhone at 240fps with the controller in the foreground and the TV in the background while in the "test buttons" section within the Switch's settings. Counted the number of frames in the video between full button press and the first sign of the screen reflecting the input. Although I didn't use an active light indicating a button press (like Shmup Junkie’s video comparison), the controller being in the foreground made it very easy to tell which frame of the 240fps video the button was activated so I am confident in the results. The TV model is LG 55SM9000PUA which has been measured by rtings.com to have a 13.8ms response time at 1080p 60Hz - https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/sm9000

The Mayflash Magic NS has 2 different selectable modes for the Switch: One is the "Nintendo Switch System Mode" which is identified when the adapter is flashing red, and the other is the "Switch Pro Mode" which is identified when the adapter is flashing purple. The only difference between the two that I noticed is that the "Switch Pro Mode" (Purple) enables you to remap the controls within the Switch's settings, as I assume the system thinks you are using an actual Pro controller which enables this option (The Wingman NS enables this option within the Switch's settings as well). I never experienced a noticeable difference in response time so this has been the mode I have personally used the most. However I measured both modes just in case.


After 50 measurements each between the Magic NS (Purple), Magic NS (Red), and the Wingman NS, here are the results:

Magic NS (Purple) - 5.56 average frames at 60Hz

Magic NS (Red) - 5.27 average frames at 60Hz

Wingman NS - 5.35 average frames at 60Hz

For a reference comparison, an actual Nintendo Pro controller (wireless) measured an average of 4.77 frames at 60 Hz.

Here is a table showing the breakout of the number of occurrences by frame #:

R=Frame # 240 fps &Magic NS Purple &Magic NS Red &Wingman NS R=18 &0 &0 &2 R=19 &0 &6 &3 R=20 &3 &9 &8 R=21 &16 &18 &13 R=22 &10 &10 &11 R=23 &14 &6 &11 R=24 &4 &1 &2 R=25 &1 &0 &0 R=26 &2 &0 &0 R=Average &22.2 &21.1 &21.4 R=Avg 60Hz Frames &5.56 &5.27 &5.35

Surprisingly, the Mayflash Magic NS’s “Purple” mode averages about a quarter frame of input lag higher than the “Red” mode, and it was pretty evident as the lowest measurement for Purple was 20 frames (240fps) which only happened 3 out of the 50 measurements, where the Magic NS “Red” mode had a lowest measurement of 19 frames which happened 6 times out of the 50 measurements.

The Brook Wingman NS averaged about the same as the Magic NS “Red” Mode, although it did have 2 measurements at 18 frames (240fps) it had a lot more measurements of 23 frames to offset it.

So if you have the Magic NS adapter and you don’t care for the ability to remap controls in the Switch’s settings then I would recommend using the “Red” mode. If whatever you are playing allows you to change controls in-game then it doesn't matter anyway.

* An additional note: After some quick comparisons between the "Test Buttons" section and some actual gameplay I found out that the test button screen is a little slower than the first sign of ship movement in Rolling Gunner (around 0.75 to 1.00 60Hz frames, or 3 to 4 frames of 240fps video). Although the test buttons screen is not the best representation of "most optimal" timings, it is very consistent and much easier to get a larger sample size of measurements so it served my purpose of comparing adapters quite well.


As far which adapter is better overall between the Magic NS and the Wingman NS, it’s really a matter of which features mean more to you:

Magic NS - Can switch A-B to B-A and X-Y to Y-X if you don’t like Nintendo’s button layout. You can adjust vibration intensity, and adjust the analog stick deadzones (which is huge for me as my XB360 controller sticks are very loose).

Wingman NS - Has a turbo function and the ability to remap controls. For example, you can remap X as “A+B”. There is no deadzone adjustment, but it is more forgiving than the default settings on the Magic NS, just not as forgiving as the Magic NS’s max deadzone setting.


So there you go, all of that time spent to identify a quarter frame difference . On a serious note this was pretty fun to do though… Now that I found a decent system for measuring input timings, I also have a Retro-Bit Saturn Controller (Bluetooth), the 8Bitdo N30 Arcade stick, and a Pokken Tournament wired controller that I would like to test in the future as well. I have no idea of when I will be able to get to them though.

[Lazy-Assed Prophet]

I'd love for you to measure the input lag on a Mayflash F500 vs Hori products. People have mix reviews, I love my mayflash but if it has input lag, I would love to know.

[BloodHawk]

I'd love for you to measure the input lag on a Mayflash F500 vs Hori products. People have mix reviews, I love my mayflash but if it has input lag, I would love to know.

I do have a Mayflash F500 (version 1) laying around but I need to put the internals back in it. The only Hori product I have to compare it against is the Pokken Tournament controller which seeing how it's wired too might make for a good comparison. There are other controllers which primarily use wireless but "can" be used wired (Pro controller, Retro-Bit Saturn), maybe those would be good to include as well. Can't promise as to when I will be able to test them but I will try in the next couple weeks.

[BrianC]

I'm a little confused with the numbers. Some tests have numbers in ms, but 5 frames is higher than the numbers of some of these tests suggest. When I tested the Magic-S Pro (for both swith and ps4) adapter in switch mode with DS4Windows (ryochan fork) on PC, it was about 7.5-8ms and the controller is about 3-5 ms on PC without an adapter. I have the elite versions of both F300 and F500. I heard they average about 10ms-14ms on the MiSTer and seem to have improved after a few firmware updates compared to when I first used the F300. Not sure if the numbers are different on PC, but I found some surprising variance in controllers depending on how and where they are used.

[BloodHawk]

I'm a little confused with the numbers. Some tests have numbers in ms, but 5 frames is higher than the numbers of some of these tests suggest. When I tested the Magic-S Pro (for both swith and ps4) adapter in switch mode with DS4Windows (ryochan fork) on PC, it was about 7.5-8ms and the controller is about 3-5 ms on PC without an adapter. I have the elite versions of both F300 and F500. I heard they average about 10ms-14ms on the MiSTer and seem to have improved after a few firmware updates compared to when I first used the F300. Not sure if the numbers are different on PC, but I found some surprising variance in controllers depending on how and where they are used.

I have used DS4Windows some before, so I think I know what you are referring to (the milliseconds shown when you put your cursor over your controller within the UI), but I am not exactly sure what aspect of the "input flow" that is measuring.

Since the primary purpose of my tests was to see the difference between adapters, I wasn't looking at a way to measure how much lag an individual adapter adds in general. My method was by measuring the entire input flow all the way through from physical button press to my display (keeping all physical variables the same excluding the adapters), so the overall numbers used for comparison will be will be a lot higher than several milliseconds. How we can get a measurement down to that millisecond range would be to take the 60 Hz frame difference between 2 of the adapter averages and multiply it by 16.67 (the number of milliseconds for each 60 Hz frame).

For example, Magic NS "Purple" mode averaged 5.56 frames which is .29 frames higher at 60 Hz than the Magic NS in "Red" mode at 5.27.

.29 x 16.67 = 5ms difference.

Does that help clear up the confusion at all?

[BONKERS]

Awesome that you did this. I've bought multiple Magic-NS over the last few years and i've never had an issue with latency. Though if i'm playing a latency timing sensitive game I do use it wired for precautionary sake. (The wireless does stop completely when you plug it in). I've never really felt any issues with latency at all ;though I primarily use it on PC; and this pretty much confirms that.
I do need to update the firmware on mine though as they recently added support for those Switch Power A Gamecube controllers I think and those are wireless only and would be neat to use on PC.