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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:18 pm 


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ZellSF wrote:
neorichieb1971 wrote:
I'm all in for 720p with scanlines. I'll wait on youtube reviews before I dive in but if it really is plug n play that will be a seller for me.

The OSSC is a nice piece of kit but having a remote with all sorts of settings with jargon names I don't understand that well kinda puts it in the specialist camp for me.

I just want a device with a few settings that get you 95% of the way. I can live without the 5%.

I find in this field of device that the "ultimate" is something that is very hard to achieve, bold claims from Voultar, but we will see.

I think OSSC gets 95% of the way there already. Set a linedoubling mode and forget it. Sure you could get better image quality, which is what the RetroTINK 5X is hopefully going for, but it's not like when playing a game you're going to notice that it isn't pixel perfect.


This is about right. The generic line modes on the OSSC look crisp as hell. Most people probably wouldn't notice a difference even with further tweaking. Even myself, someone who chases the best picture, I'm not looking at the generic modes and even realizing it could be crisper. I think my biggest want out of the 5x Pro is more compatibility with all TVs and capture devices. It sure would be cool if you could run 5x mode into any TV or capture device and have it be recognized as a 1080p signal 100% of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:11 pm 


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Guspaz wrote:
I could not find any combination of values that produced per-pixel sampling. There was always some sort of ghosting.


Same here, people here told me two years ago to just enable Upsample2X about 2 years ago, but that doesn't get rid of this "ghosting-like" thing that is produced by the OSSC.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:57 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1198
Lawfer wrote:
Guspaz wrote:
I could not find any combination of values that produced per-pixel sampling. There was always some sort of ghosting.


Same here, people here told me two years ago to just enable Upsample2X about 2 years ago, but that doesn't get rid of this "ghosting-like" thing that is produced by the OSSC.


Though it's worth noting that this kind of "ghosting" is not an issue with the generic 4:3 modes--which, BTW, I've always seen as the preferable choice. The pursuit of a "pixel-perfect" picture has always seemed strange to me when it comes to the digitization of non-square-pixel material.

What I'm expecting of a device like the RT5X is something similar to the OSSC's 4:3 generic modes, but overall cleaner and more compatible. Oh, and scanline effect friendly.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:30 pm 


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Yes, my OSSC works great without the pixel-perfect sampling. It's just that it looks slightly better if it can do pixel-perfect sampling. On the OSSC, it seems out of reach, but if it's automatic and "just works", why not take that extra bit of quality?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:51 pm 


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Guspaz wrote:
Yes, my OSSC works great without the pixel-perfect sampling. It's just that it looks slightly better if it can do pixel-perfect sampling. On the OSSC, it seems out of reach, but if it's automatic and "just works", why not take that extra bit of quality?


I'd love to see that feature in some pure transcoder devices. I could retire my FC-14.
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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:00 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 645
I've owned an OSSC and a RetroTink SCART and I'm fully aware that the OSSC can be basically just plug and play, but the RetroTink just FEELS more plug and play. I realize that it's a completely silly thing to say, but for your average person looking to pick up a product, that's an important distinction. If you're doing your research before buying, you'll find articles and videos galore about what a pain the OSSC is and how it may not even work with your TV; the RetroTink, meanwhile, is pretty universally regarded as easy to use and it's cheaper. Perception is everything.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:23 pm 



Joined: 01 Aug 2009
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Eventhough i have 0 interest in the online drama and oblivion-fuckings from the maker and/or tester, the actual product could be interesting. Since i do own an OSSC i'm curious to see what the added advantages would be in my case. Lack of scart is a pretty big disadvantage. I don't really understand the earlier complaint about it being pretty common that SCART connectors wear out. I have never encountered that on any tv or console i've owned and i don't know anyone that has as far as i'm aware.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:40 pm 



Joined: 03 Jul 2014
Posts: 50
This is great news! Can't wait to see the in-depth reviews when it releases. Any word on how it handles the 240p/480i switch? The current RetroTink products still drop the picture enough to cause a resync. I assume this will function the same? No frame buffer?

Regardless, if this is plug and play without the fiddling it's going to be amazing. I have two sets of friends. Those that dive into the deep end and like to tinker and the OSSC may still be the better choice but a lot of people want a box they plug shit into and it just works. For those people the retrotink products have been a godsend.

Great work Mike! Looking forward to more information (soon hopefully?).


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:01 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 640
spmbx wrote:
Lack of scart is a pretty big disadvantage.


There's a SCART input on this featured device.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:09 pm 



Joined: 01 Aug 2009
Posts: 286
Location: The Netherlands
ldeveraux wrote:
spmbx wrote:
Lack of scart is a pretty big disadvantage.


There's a SCART input on this featured device.


Right, my mistake. My twitter preview cut off the bottom part of the picture. I'll wait for the specs and first useful informative reviews


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:59 pm 



Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 153
ZellSF wrote:
I'm more curious how the RetroTINK 5X will be the best in "features". What will it do that the OSSC can't?


Well we're not to bother asking any questions... He was quite specific about that.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 9:41 pm 


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Are we allowed to ask for a release timeframe?? lol


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:28 pm 



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Posts: 640
Josh128 wrote:
Are we allowed to ask for a release timeframe?? lol


Only if you're willing to voluntarily fornicate with a relative, it doesn't matter which one apparently. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 12:05 am 


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Mike Chi (the Retrotink dev) comes to the forum and posts here. I bet he'd share some info if you asked nicely here in the thread. He hasn't done anything to upset anyone. Just ask.

@mikechi
Can you share some details about the Retrotinkx5? I'm excited and intrigued about your new device. :)
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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:17 am 


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thebigcheese wrote:
I've owned an OSSC and a RetroTink SCART and I'm fully aware that the OSSC can be basically just plug and play, but the RetroTink just FEELS more plug and play. I realize that it's a completely silly thing to say, but for your average person looking to pick up a product, that's an important distinction. If you're doing your research before buying, you'll find articles and videos galore about what a pain the OSSC is and how it may not even work with your TV; the RetroTink, meanwhile, is pretty universally regarded as easy to use and it's cheaper. Perception is everything.


To be fair, the OSSC will work with virtually any TV in line 2X mode, exactly the same as the Tink products.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:25 am 



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Yeah, and the OSSC ships with 2X on by default. That said, 2X whether from the OSSC or the RT2X looks pretty bad on flat panels, especially today's big 4K TVs. That mode is ideal for PC CRTs, and maybe can look good on old plasmas, HD CRTs, and some small LCDs, but not for contemporary TV's. Those need at least 3X, and that's precisely where the OSSC's compatibility takes a hit (and of course even worse for 4X and 5X).


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 1:54 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Yeah, and the OSSC ships with 2X on by default. That said, 2X whether from the OSSC or the RT2X looks pretty bad on flat panels, especially today's big 4K TVs. That mode is ideal for PC CRTs, and maybe can look good on old plasmas, HD CRTs, and some small LCDs, but not for contemporary TV's. Those need at least 3X, and that's precisely where the OSSC's compatibility takes a hit (and of course even worse for 4X and 5X).


I've tried my OSSC on about 6 TVs that were made in the last 2-3 years, all different brands and every line mode up to 5x worked on all of them. I definitely think it's less of a problem with newer TVs, assuming it's not a bargain basement Walmart set. However, it definitely gave me trouble on my two old TVs from about 2011. Hopefully, the 5X Pro is able to output very standardized signals at those higher line multiplication modes. I'd assume that would be something Mike would be trying to achieve in keeping in line with the user friendly aspect of the Tink products.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:34 am 


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TooBeaucoup wrote:
To be fair, the OSSC will work with virtually any TV in line 2X mode


1440x960?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:15 am 


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Lawfer wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:
To be fair, the OSSC will work with virtually any TV in line 2X mode


1440x960?


That, no. I was speaking of 240x2 for 480p. Although, every newer TV (2-3 years old) I've tried, has worked for 960p.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 2:59 pm 



Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 33
This sure look like a great product, I'm looking forward to try it!
If not already done, may I suggest Mike Chi (and the developers of other similiar products) to consider the inclusion of a "framebuffer mode" for TATE gaming? Would it affect final cost very much?


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:15 pm 



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TooBeaucoup wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
Yeah, and the OSSC ships with 2X on by default. That said, 2X whether from the OSSC or the RT2X looks pretty bad on flat panels, especially today's big 4K TVs. That mode is ideal for PC CRTs, and maybe can look good on old plasmas, HD CRTs, and some small LCDs, but not for contemporary TV's. Those need at least 3X, and that's precisely where the OSSC's compatibility takes a hit (and of course even worse for 4X and 5X).


I've tried my OSSC on about 6 TVs that were made in the last 2-3 years, all different brands and every line mode up to 5x worked on all of them. I definitely think it's less of a problem with newer TVs, assuming it's not a bargain basement Walmart set. However, it definitely gave me trouble on my two old TVs from about 2011. Hopefully, the 5X Pro is able to output very standardized signals at those higher line multiplication modes. I'd assume that would be something Mike would be trying to achieve in keeping in line with the user friendly aspect of the Tink products.


I have a 2019 TCL that doesnt work in 5x. It works in 4x and looks great but I wish it worked in 5x. I wonder how much better it would look, if at all. The possibility of slightly better resolution has me interested in this retrotink.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 4:36 pm 


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Wilsoncqb1911 wrote:
TooBeaucoup wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
Yeah, and the OSSC ships with 2X on by default. That said, 2X whether from the OSSC or the RT2X looks pretty bad on flat panels, especially today's big 4K TVs. That mode is ideal for PC CRTs, and maybe can look good on old plasmas, HD CRTs, and some small LCDs, but not for contemporary TV's. Those need at least 3X, and that's precisely where the OSSC's compatibility takes a hit (and of course even worse for 4X and 5X).


I've tried my OSSC on about 6 TVs that were made in the last 2-3 years, all different brands and every line mode up to 5x worked on all of them. I definitely think it's less of a problem with newer TVs, assuming it's not a bargain basement Walmart set. However, it definitely gave me trouble on my two old TVs from about 2011. Hopefully, the 5X Pro is able to output very standardized signals at those higher line multiplication modes. I'd assume that would be something Mike would be trying to achieve in keeping in line with the user friendly aspect of the Tink products.


I have a 2019 TCL that doesnt work in 5x. It works in 4x and looks great but I wish it worked in 5x. I wonder how much better it would look, if at all. The possibility of slightly better resolution has me interested in this retrotink.


I've seen many people who prefer 4x. Personally, I can't tell much of a difference on any of my TVs.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:23 pm 



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Posts: 31
TooBeaucoup wrote:

I've seen many people who prefer 4x. Personally, I can't tell much of a difference on any of my TVs.


Thank you. It has been hard to imagine it looking any sharper, which is why I havent really cared. Perhaps I'll just wait for the OSSC Pro then unless this does something else we haven't seen.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 5:56 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1926
pedroTFP wrote:
This sure look like a great product, I'm looking forward to try it!
If not already done, may I suggest Mike Chi (and the developers of other similiar products) to consider the inclusion of a "framebuffer mode" for TATE gaming? Would it affect final cost very much?

Line multipliers, like the RetroTINK and OSSC products, are designed to buffer one or two lines and cannot just magically start buffering entire frames. Buffering frames and performing operations like rotation and framerate conversion require significantly more powerful hardware, which would likely cost several times that of a line multiplier (if the $350~$500 ballpark estimate for the OSSC Pro is any indication).


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:18 pm 



Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Posts: 33
I see... thanks for the explanation!


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 10:44 pm 


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Should be interesting to see how standardized the output signal really is with the limited buffer. I'm not saying it won't be better than the OSSC, but it's interesting to hear people trumpeting unconfirmed features.
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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:53 pm 


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Once Mike is ready to share more information I hope he will create a new thread so that all relevant information will be easy to locate in the first post.


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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:13 pm 


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I'm one of those people who spent hours figuring out optimal timings for everything. But in the end I found that 5x generic mode looks just as good and is easier to use with multiple consoles at once.

By the looks of things Mike has hit the nail on the head - this kind of device is the best compromise between great picture quality and ease of use. It would be perfect for when my wife wants to play SNES Bust-a-Move but can't figure out how to set up the OSSC.


Last edited by matt on Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:20 am 


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Does HD Retrovision have any hand in this / is it a sorta re-imagining of their “HDMIzer”? I coulda swore I heard rumblings about them being involved... could be wrong though!
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 Post subject: Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:15 am 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
Once Mike is ready to share more information I hope he will create a new thread so that all relevant information will be easy to locate in the first post.
This.
Been using a retroTink2x classic paired with an Mcable gaming cable, to do double duty scaling and smoothing on sega Saturn and Sega Dreamcast for the last several years, to make all those beautiful 2d capcom fighting games look as good as their 7th gen ports, with the added bonus of making custom OST's


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