RetroTINK 5x-Pro

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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

One trick to dealing with YouTube is to upscale videos before uploading. You might think it's silly to upload a 1080p video as 4K, but the 4K video is going to get a higher bitrate from YouTube, making 1080p content look better.
Blacksheep
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Blacksheep »

(I'm not on twitter so writing this here)

https://twitter.com/retrotink2/status/1 ... 6373023751

All just toys, all just jokes, huh? Well, some expensive toys I'd say. As for me, I go here for the sound info and the discussions, not for laughs. I like to execute some activities, including my hobbies, with some sincerity and candor, because I want to do them well, and I also like to respect the opinions and preferences of others. I think that's not a bad way to approach life in general. By no means does that mean that I don't laugh or can't have fun. These aren't mutually exclusive and are often even two sides of the same coin.

Of course there are some users here who attract(ed) negative attention, but you have that basically everywhere. Isn't it disingenuous to try to charm potential buyers of your new product here, while firing salvos at this place from elsewhere (with your histrionic retro gaming bubble influencer buddies answering in unison)?
dojima
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by dojima »

Blacksheep wrote:Isn't it disingenuous to try to charm potential buyers of your new product here
Is that what he's doing? He didn't even make this thread, lmao.

Also, requisite on-topic part of the post: can't wait to get the 5x on day 1. Thanks for all the work, Mike.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

"Haha to be honest we’ve both had some pretty bad experiences, but as with any venue a one or two trolls spoils everything (and tbh, I don’t think this guy is bad, just a funny stand to take). Most people everywhere are pretty cool."

It's amazing how often this statement (which I made in that discussion), proves to be true over and over again.
Blacksheep
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Blacksheep »

mikechi2 wrote:You also seem to be under the mistaken impression that I exist charm you :)
Perhaps you don't technically need to charm users here, but you do want to sell the RetroTINK 5x-Pro, don't you? Else why chime in here and answer questions, or listening to feature requests voiced here?

Edit: oh, you just edited that away.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

Blacksheep wrote:
mikechi2 wrote:You also seem to be under the mistaken impression that I exist charm you :)
Perhaps you don't technically need to charm users here, but you do want to sell the RetroTINK 5x-Pro, don't you? Else why chime in here and answer questions, or listening to feature requests voiced here?

Edit: oh, you just edited that away.
Sell or don't sell, it honestly matter :)

As for participating in this forum, what can I say, I enjoy participating in talk about fun and games :p
Last edited by mikechi2 on Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Blacksheep
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Blacksheep »

mikechi2 wrote:Sell or don't sell, it honestly matter :)
Huh?
mikechi2 wrote:As for participating in this forum, what can I say, I enjoy participating in talk about fun and games :p
Oh, okay. =) Then I'd say we're both at the right place here.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by maxtherabbit »

mikechi2 wrote:
Blacksheep wrote:
mikechi2 wrote:You also seem to be under the mistaken impression that I exist charm you :)
Perhaps you don't technically need to charm users here, but you do want to sell the RetroTINK 5x-Pro, don't you? Else why chime in here and answer questions, or listening to feature requests voiced here?

Edit: oh, you just edited that away.
Sell or don't sell, it honestly matter :)

As for participating in this forum, what can I say, I enjoy participating in talk about fun and games :p
if you don't update your device right fucking now to output ALL VESA compliant resolutions (in both GTF and CVT timings of course) I will violently shit in your hat
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vol.2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by vol.2 »

maxtherabbit wrote: if you don't update your device right fucking now to output ALL VESA compliant resolutions (in both GTF and CVT timings of course) I will violently shit in your hat

I don't know man. That doesn't sound nearly serious enough. You need to show a lot more dedication to your hobby than that. It had at least better be some radioactive diarrhea or something.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

Com'on man I already did 1366 x 768, cut me a break please :lol:
Blacksheep wrote:
mikechi2 wrote:Sell or don't sell, it honestly matter :)
Huh?
mikechi2 wrote:As for participating in this forum, what can I say, I enjoy participating in talk about fun and games :p
Oh, okay. =) Then I'd say we're both at the right place here.
Whoops, I type too fast, should be "honestly doesn't matter" :)

And yup, perfect =)
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

Blacksheep wrote:(I'm not on twitter so writing this here)

https://twitter.com/retrotink2/status/1 ... 6373023751

All just toys, all just jokes, huh? Well, some expensive toys I'd say. As for me, I go here for the sound info and the discussions, not for laughs. I like to execute some activities, including my hobbies, with some sincerity and candor, because I want to do them well, and I also like to respect the opinions and preferences of others. I think that's not a bad way to approach life in general. By no means does that mean that I don't laugh or can't have fun. These aren't mutually exclusive and are often even two sides of the same coin.

Of course there are some users here who attract(ed) negative attention, but you have that basically everywhere. Isn't it disingenuous to try to charm potential buyers of your new product here, while firing salvos at this place from elsewhere (with your histrionic retro gaming bubble influencer buddies answering in unison)?
What Mike said is true. An NES or a PS5, it doesnt matter-- they are toys. You play games on them, I play games on them. We relive our childhood through them. Toys can indeed be very expensive, but they are still toys. No one should tie these things (or any material object for that matter) to their self worth. This is all in good fun. Im sure Mike isnt doing this to get rich, neither is Marqs or Woozle or Rama. Sure, it would be nice to make some money off of their work and I sincerely hope they do, but the true reason they do it is because they love it, they enjoy it. Just like we do.

Recently some on this forum have come close to what amounts to trolling brilliant guys like Marqs and Mike. Its sad. These are the engineers making the things that we love and are taking input and interacting with us as enthusiasts. Its very commendable. Even if we dont get half of the feature requests that get mentioned, it still gives the designers ideas to work off of and they might actually be able to implement some of them. I think its great. And we should always be civil and respectful, even if we disagree.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

Josh128 wrote:
Blacksheep wrote:(I'm not on twitter so writing this here)

https://twitter.com/retrotink2/status/1 ... 6373023751

All just toys, all just jokes, huh? Well, some expensive toys I'd say. As for me, I go here for the sound info and the discussions, not for laughs. I like to execute some activities, including my hobbies, with some sincerity and candor, because I want to do them well, and I also like to respect the opinions and preferences of others. I think that's not a bad way to approach life in general. By no means does that mean that I don't laugh or can't have fun. These aren't mutually exclusive and are often even two sides of the same coin.

Of course there are some users here who attract(ed) negative attention, but you have that basically everywhere. Isn't it disingenuous to try to charm potential buyers of your new product here, while firing salvos at this place from elsewhere (with your histrionic retro gaming bubble influencer buddies answering in unison)?
What Mike said is true. An NES or a PS5, it doesnt matter-- they are toys. You play games on them, I play games on them. We relive our childhood through them. Toys can indeed be very expensive, but they are still toys. No one should tie these things (or any material object for that matter) to their self worth. This is all in good fun. Im sure Mike isnt doing this to get rich, neither is Marqs or Woozle or Rama. Sure, it would be nice to make some money off of their work and I sincerely hope they do, but the true reason they do it is because they love it, they enjoy it. Just like we do.

Recently some on this forum have come close to what amounts to trolling brilliant guys like Marqs and Mike. Its sad. These are the engineers making the things that we love and are taking input and interacting with us as enthusiasts. Its very commendable. Even if we dont get half of the feature requests that get mentioned, it still gives the designers ideas to work off of and they might actually be able to implement some of them. I think its great. And we should always be civil and respectful, even if we disagree.
Thanks a lot dude!! :)
Now hopefully we can get back to the topic of enjoying our toys, haha.
caivs
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by caivs »

As long as you upscale to 4K for all your future YouTube vids then we are good :wink:

On a more serious note, will there be a Rec.601/Rec.709 toggle for the colorspace conversion from YPbPr in to RGB HDMI out?
Blacksheep
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Blacksheep »

Josh128 wrote:What Mike said is true. An NES or a PS5, it doesnt matter-- they are toys. You play games on them, I play games on them. We relive our childhood through them. Toys can indeed be very expensive, but they are still toys. No one should tie these things (or any material object for that matter) to their self worth. This is all in good fun. Im sure Mike isnt doing this to get rich, neither is Marqs or Woozle or Rama. Sure, it would be nice to make some money off of their work and I sincerely hope they do, but the true reason they do it is because they love it, they enjoy it. Just like we do.

Recently some on this forum have come close to what amounts to trolling brilliant guys like Marqs and Mike. Its sad. These are the engineers making the things that we love and are taking input and interacting with us as enthusiasts. Its very commendable. Even if we dont get half of the feature requests that get mentioned, it still gives the designers ideas to work off of and they might actually be able to implement some of them. I think its great. And we should always be civil and respectful, even if we disagree.
It has to be said that what things I tie to my self worth and to what extent is something that is not for you to decide. That is what I meant about respecting the opinions and preferences of others. To me, if I didn't tie at least some things in life to my self worth, everything would be just superficial and aimless. If you don't tie anything to your self worth, you have no self worth. Certainly, there are things more important in my life than games, but still.

I never asserted that video games aren't toys. Sure: you could also say that expensive cars and luxurious estates can be toys, so video games and associated paraphernalia can definitely be regarded as toys. You often suggest that I said something which I actually didn't and/or take what I say to the extreme, seemingly without being able to recognize much nuance.

I agree with your second paragraph.
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

Blacksheep wrote: You often suggest that I said something which I actually didn't and/or take what I say to the extreme, seemingly without being able to recognize much nuance.
:roll:
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BazookaBen
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by BazookaBen »

What about Freesync? Has anybody asked about Freesync?

Or VRR, or whatever you want to call it.

In a lot of TV's, this basically unlocks the lowest lag mode for the TV.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

BazookaBen wrote:What about Freesync? Has anybody asked about Freesync?

Or VRR, or whatever you want to call it.

In a lot of TV's, this basically unlocks the lowest lag mode for the TV.
I still haven't found out if enabling VRR is along the lines of setting a flag on the HDMI output, or if it's more involved than that (maybe something baked into the output IC?). Would love to know!
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orange808
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by orange808 »

This is the only thing I've found for that. https://t-2-m.com/semiconductor-ip-core ... en-ip-core

Intel/Altera video IP also mentions possible HDMI 2.1 support, but I didn't find anything specific in the docs about it. Maybe in a future device someday, mikechi2? :mrgreen:
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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

VRR was only added to HDMI in 2.1, but it's not clear to me how (if at all) the official VRR standard differs from FreeSync over HDMI. It's clearly not identical: nVidia latest GPUs support (with no limitations) VRR over HDMI 2.1, and FreeSync over DP, but not FreeSync over HDMI, so there is obviously at least some difference.

More relevant than VRR might be HDMI 2.1's ALLM (Auto Low Latency Mode), which is a way to signal the TV to specifically tell it to enter the lowest latency mode, and QFT (Quick Frame Transport), which reduces latency by sending each frame over the wire as fast as it can, regardless of the framerate (so burst the frame out and then wait), though this assumes the source has the frame fully buffered, which would only be true of the RT2X in buffered mode (though it would reduce the impact of said mode). Not that there's a lot of headroom for that if you're pushing the RT5X to its limit with 1440p. Maybe if you're using buffered mode at 1080p there's some slack to use up?

It's worth noting that HDMI 2.1 also has a feature that they call QMS (Quick Media Switching), which is intended to avoid dropping sync during framerate changes, so long as the resolution doesn't change. Their example is when switching between 60/24/30 Hz signals. However, they say it leverages VRR, which makes me say, how is it actually different from just straight-up VRR, then?

Some of these may be possible without an HDMI 2.1 transmitter, but some might not be.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

Non 2.1 devices have definitely added VRR support. Samsung TVs had it before any TV had 2.1 ports or transmitters.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by energizerfellow‌ »

caivs wrote: On a more serious note, will there be a Rec.601/Rec.709 toggle for the colorspace conversion from YPbPr in to RGB HDMI out?
On a related note, will it be possible to change between RGB / YCbCr and standard/TV/partial / full range output? Given the gaming focus and 8-bit (?) color pipeline, I assume the shipping default is RGB/full/8-bit? The video guys would like to avoid as many YUV<->RGB color space and standard/full quantization range conversations as possible to keep the cumulative errors down to a reasonable level.

Also, will we be able to configure the IRE levels on the analog proc amp? We'll need to manually switch between IRE 0.0 / 7.5 at a minimum (various NTSC variants in the Americas will obviously be IRE 7.5...), but there's also a case for being able to switch between IRE 100 and 107.5 on the top end. This is due to a number of buggy devices back in the day that incorrectly moved up the range to IRE 7.5 / 107.5 instead of the correct IRE 7.5 / 100 pedestal and upper limit.
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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

bobrocks95 wrote:Non 2.1 devices have definitely added VRR support. Samsung TVs had it before any TV had 2.1 ports or transmitters.
And LG's OLED TVs support G-Sync over HDMI on HDMI 2.0 GPUs. It's not clear, though, which TVs are implementing which VRR standard, and what the differences between those standards are.
whatamansion
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by whatamansion »

Mike, can the SNES/PCE/PS1 256 sampling phase be used for NES and 256 Genesis too?
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Lux »

I was wondering how the autophase will work with 50Hz PAL games. Will I still have black borders or could they automatically be ignored so the actual active zone fills the screen ?
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by thebigcheese »

What is the purpose of adding VRR? With PC (and the new gen of consoles, I guess), the idea is that if the frame rate slows down, the TV also adjusts rather than outputting at a fixed frame rate. But that requires the GPU to share the frame rate information so that the TV knows to change rate. Retro consoles wouldn't send this data, I assume, so while it might know that it should be displayed at 60.07 Hz or whatever, it wouldn't know to change frame rate if the game slows down. And presumably if the TV can already display the picture when sent a 60.07 Hz signal, then it is already capable of adjusting to display it at that frame rate. VRR is only useful for when the frame rate changes during gameplay. Unless I'm missing something here?
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

My understanding is that the GPU just presents a frame whenever it feels like it, and the monitor draws it. IIRC this is done by playing with the v-blank length?

The use for retro gaming is to handle the subtle framerate changes that occur when resolution changes without dropping sync. Changing from 240p to 480i or back changes the timing slightly. Even if you normalize it to a 1080p image. The RT5X Pro handles this by buffering the frame, but this adds lag. If you supported VRR, you could in theory handle the switch without buffering and without dropping sync so long as the resolution doesn't change.
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orange808
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by orange808 »

And, with emulation, VRR is a lazy hack workaround for the way Windows/Linux and GPU drivers conspire to lock us out of direct granular control of frame rates and for lazy display designers that don't care if their displays sync up to "off-spec" frame rates properly. :-) I hesitate to call it a workaround. It's just a cheap hack.
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Gunstar »

Price has been announced
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by BazookaBen »

thebigcheese wrote:What is the purpose of adding VRR?
...
I'm missing something here?
Some TV's are only at their lowest input lag in VRR mode. All the fixed refresh modes are laggier, even after accounting for the savings on the GPU side.
fernan1234
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by fernan1234 »

It's coming out much sooner than expected! (that's what she said)
RGB SCART cables need to use 75 ohm sync-on-luma or sync on composite. Do not use TTL CSYNC.
This point in the compatibility section of the product list may be confusing in regard to attenuated CSYNC support, though the user manual does say that it is supported.
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