RetroTINK 5x-Pro

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RocketBelt
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by RocketBelt »

If this is really that big a deal for people I could get some SCART to SCART cables made in the same quality as our JP21 adapters?

We'd need to order min quantity 500 though, so there would have to be significant interest.
Couldn't you just use a flat ribbon scart cable and fold it over? Like we used to do with ide or floppy drive cables.
Would by just as tidy.
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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

It's obviously too late to change the PCB layout, but I'm confused as to why which side of the board it goes on is relevant. I can find PCB-mount SCART sockets in either orientation (they're just rotated 180 degrees as to if the cables goes left or right once plugged in), and then it's just a matter of routing to the pins differently.
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Einzelherz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Einzelherz »

Pretty sure I can reverse most of my scart cables' directions by unscrewing them and flipping the head.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by maxtherabbit »

Einzelherz wrote:Pretty sure I can reverse most of my scart cables' directions by unscrewing them and flipping the head.
this

I don't think the plastic shell is directional, it appears it will work in either orientation
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Konsolkongen
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Konsolkongen »

maxtherabbit wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:Pretty sure I can reverse most of my scart cables' directions by unscrewing them and flipping the head.
this

I don't think the plastic shell is directional, it appears it will work in either orientation
On most cables you can’t do this. The metal housing on the BNC to Scart cable I made you wouldn’t be able to do that. You also wouldn’t be able to bend the cable backwards like Mike suggested either as the cable is so thick and stiff that it would just fling the RetroTink right off the shelf.
I think it’s a poor design choice no doubt, but if this product suited my needs and I really wanted it I could make minor alterations to my setup to accommodate the cable facing the wrong direction. For me personally it wouldn’t be a dealbreaker, it just wouldn’t look as tidy as it could have.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

Konsolkongen wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:Pretty sure I can reverse most of my scart cables' directions by unscrewing them and flipping the head.
this

I don't think the plastic shell is directional, it appears it will work in either orientation
On most cables you can’t do this. The metal housing on the BNC to Scart cable I made you wouldn’t be able to do that. You also wouldn’t be able to bend the cable backwards like Mike suggested either as the cable is so thick and stiff that it would just fling the RetroTink right off the shelf.
I think it’s a poor design choice no doubt, but if this product suited my needs and I really wanted it I could make minor alterations to my setup to accommodate the cable facing the wrong direction. For me personally it wouldn’t be a dealbreaker, it just wouldn’t look as tidy as it could have.
Man you should get some thinner cables. I wouldn't plug something like that in any direction.

And what can I say, my degree is in *Electrical* engineering, not mechanical, lmao.
Last edited by mikechi2 on Fri Apr 09, 2021 4:19 am, edited 4 times in total.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by maxtherabbit »

Konsolkongen wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:Pretty sure I can reverse most of my scart cables' directions by unscrewing them and flipping the head.
this

I don't think the plastic shell is directional, it appears it will work in either orientation
On most cables you can’t do this. The metal housing on the BNC to Scart cable I made you wouldn’t be able to do that. You also wouldn’t be able to bend the cable backwards like Mike suggested either as the cable is so thick and stiff that it would just fling the RetroTink right off the shelf.
I think it’s a poor design choice no doubt, but if this product suited my needs and I really wanted it I could make minor alterations to my setup to accommodate the cable facing the wrong direction. For me personally it wouldn’t be a dealbreaker, it just wouldn’t look as tidy as it could have.
perhaps so, I hate SCART and the only SCART connector I have is a loose one from console 5 I used to design my SCART to VGA dongle - but it will go on either way for sure
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Konsolkongen
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Konsolkongen »

SCART is kewl and very convenient. Component is a hassle to hook up :/
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DirkSwizzler
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by DirkSwizzler »

Just waiting for the final phase of the epic troll where we find out the SCART connection isn't actually connected to the video circuitry.
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

DirkSwizzler wrote:Just waiting for the final phase of the epic troll where we find out the SCART connection isn't actually connected to the video circuitry.
Shhhhhhhh... you've spoiled the joke!!! :evil:

Ok jig is up, we're actually bundling composite to SCART dongles, because the RGB lines aren't even connected.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Konsolkongen »

mikechi2 wrote: Man you should get some thinner cables. I wouldn't plug something like that in any direction.
Your reply doesn’t really make sense. Obviously you could have a cable laying one way which puts no strain on the connector, but twist it 180 and it’s not so.

I wasn’t trying to insult you. I even said that in my setup it wouldn’t be a huge issue :)
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

Konsolkongen wrote:
mikechi2 wrote: Man you should get some thinner cables. I wouldn't plug something like that in any direction.
Your reply doesn’t really make sense. Obviously you could have a cable laying one way which puts no strain on the connector, but twist it 180 and it’s not so.

I wasn’t trying to insult you. I even said that in my setup it wouldn’t be a huge issue :)
Not at all! With the SCART cables I have, they're thin enough to gently bend back 180 without much stress (which is part of the reason it never really bothered me). Your comment made me imagine that you had some sort of heavy duty 75 ohm coax monster, in which case maybe my cables are just cheap stuff...
Konsolkongen wrote:SCART is kewl and very convenient. Component is a hassle to hook up :/
100% agree it is convenient, but kewl, I say no :)
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Konsolkongen
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Konsolkongen »

mikechi2 wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:
mikechi2 wrote: Man you should get some thinner cables. I wouldn't plug something like that in any direction.
Your reply doesn’t really make sense. Obviously you could have a cable laying one way which puts no strain on the connector, but twist it 180 and it’s not so.

I wasn’t trying to insult you. I even said that in my setup it wouldn’t be a huge issue :)
Not at all! With the SCART cables I have, they're thin enough to gently bend back 180 without much trouble (which is part of the reason it never really bothered me). Your comment made me imagine that you had some sort of heavy duty 75 ohm coax monster, in which case maybe my cables are just cheap stuff...
That’s pretty much spot on :mrgreen:
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DirkSwizzler
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by DirkSwizzler »

Konsolkongen wrote:
mikechi2 wrote:. Your comment made me imagine that you had some sort of heavy duty 75 ohm coax monster, in which case maybe my cables are just cheap stuff...
That’s pretty much spot on :mrgreen:
Same.

The compatibility target seems to be well made cables, to avoid garbage signals. But not enthusiast grade cables.
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BuckoA51
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by BuckoA51 »

SCART is kewl and very convenient. Component is a hassle to hook up :/
HERETIC BURN HIM ! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually I sort of agree, 5 x clumsy high quality RCA cables aren't exactly hassle free either, at least with longer runs of SCART you can get those nice flat cables, I used to run them under the desk and use breakouts at each end in the old setup.
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Josh128
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Josh128 »

mikechi2 wrote:
Man you should get some thinner cables. I wouldn't plug something like that in any direction.

And what can I say, my degree is in *Electrical* engineering, not mechanical, lmao.
Mike, its safe to say you havent experienced a German-designed KabelDirekt SCART cable. Each pair is individually shielded and the outer cable has to be >.5" in diameter. If you cut a 2 foot piece its easily heavy and stiff enough that you could use it as a weapon, lol.

https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-Mult ... B01DYELZXE
ldeveraux
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by ldeveraux »

Josh128 wrote:
mikechi2 wrote:
Man you should get some thinner cables. I wouldn't plug something like that in any direction.

And what can I say, my degree is in *Electrical* engineering, not mechanical, lmao.
Mike, its safe to say you havent experienced a German-designed KabelDirekt SCART cable. Each pair is individually shielded and the outer cable has to be >.5" in diameter. If you cut a 2 foot piece its easily heavy and stiff enough that you could use it as a weapon, lol.

https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-Mult ... B01DYELZXE
These appear to be the cheapest cables available in the US that still ship quickly and are of relative good quality, I'd suspect we all own a few of these. We cannot switch the head direction, so these would be sticking out the front of the RT5x, and as Josh said, the bend radius is quite high, I'd guess >8". Doesn't matter to me personally, I run everything through a GCOMPSW, but that would look a bit odd.
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vol.2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by vol.2 »

It's not an issue to me at all. I keep my video processors behind stuff and out of view. I don't care which direction the cables end up. In fact, for my setup, this actually might work a little better for routing.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by maxtherabbit »

maxtherabbit wrote: perhaps so, I hate SCART and the only SCART connector I have is a loose one from console 5 I used to design my SCART to VGA dongle - but it will go on either way for sure
this was fact checked and determined to be a lie, it looked like it would work in the bag but I took it out and tried it - no joy
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

Josh128 wrote:
mikechi2 wrote:
Man you should get some thinner cables. I wouldn't plug something like that in any direction.

And what can I say, my degree is in *Electrical* engineering, not mechanical, lmao.
Mike, its safe to say you havent experienced a German-designed KabelDirekt SCART cable. Each pair is individually shielded and the outer cable has to be >.5" in diameter. If you cut a 2 foot piece its easily heavy and stiff enough that you could use it as a weapon, lol.

https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-Mult ... B01DYELZXE
I think I have something that looks very similar, except the cable is flat and the connector is straight. I did a crude measurement and I think the lines are actually 75 ohm coax. Good stuff but heavy.

In any case, shall we return to the topic of scaling? lmao.
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orange808
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by orange808 »

mikechi2 wrote:
In any case, shall we return to the topic of scaling? lmao.
Yes, please. :mrgreen:

If you wouldn't mind sharing the secret sauce recipe, is the deinterlacing based on IP, did you design a custom solution, or (perhaps) a hybrid?

Would dynamically using a compression method help get tate rotation working? I think we can safely assume multiple pixels/samples/color clocks on each line be identical. We can also safely assume many lines will be identical.
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mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

orange808 wrote:
mikechi2 wrote:
In any case, shall we return to the topic of scaling? lmao.
Yes, please. :mrgreen:

If you wouldn't mind sharing the secret sauce recipe, is the deinterlacing based on IP, did you design a custom solution, or (perhaps) a hybrid?

Would dynamically using a compression method help get tate rotation working? I think we can safely assume multiple pixels/samples/color clocks on each line be identical. We can also safely assume many lines will be identical.
THANK YOU. LOL.

Sure thing -- the MA deinterlacer is fully custom written (as is the entire scaler), though I couldn't of done it without help from an experienced friend giving me pointers. For the deinterlacer, I read a few papers as well as app notes like the Intel VIP documentation and rolled a version from scratch. Surprisingly, simple implementations have a tendency to work well for our application. Filters like bilinear-sharp and the kind of MA deinterlacing I have is probably bad for movies, but look good for games and lend themselves to efficient and fast synthesis on the FPGA.

Dynamic compression could help with the TATE stuff, but you'd need an algorithm that guaranteed a certain lossless compression ratio. It'd also probably be too complex for the FPGA and SDRAM controller I have now. Like everything else, the SDRAM controller is full custom, cut to the bone, which is why it's possible to run everything at 185 MHz (1440p) and still meet timing closure.
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bobrocks95
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by bobrocks95 »

Can't resist adding that Retro-Access coax cables are going to have a hell of a time bending 180 and will just turn the thing sideways.

Make a version with a DSUB15 connector though and I won't have to use SCART at all and we're even :P
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RocketBelt
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by RocketBelt »

Could the scaler do overscan/zoom/pan controls?
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

RocketBelt wrote:Could the scaler do overscan/zoom/pan controls?
Right now there is a 1080p overscan mode (240p -> 1200p cropped to 1080p). You can use the remote to shift the image up and down.
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Dr. Claw
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Dr. Claw »

energizerfellow‌ wrote:
zarkFR wrote: Can you tell us if the photo on your twitter header is the final release ? The SCART connector seems mounted in the wrong direction (cable will go in front of the 5x in most setups).

Image
Having that SCART connector going the wrong direction is going to, sadly, be a Big Deal for a lot of users and probably a deal breaker...
If I'm not mistaken there will also be a SHART 5X also coming...
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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

From Mike's twitter:

Image
Image

So the SCART connector is on the back. It's said to not have all the features of the 5X Pro (described as "stripped down").
mikechi2
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by mikechi2 »

Heh, with the current state of things, not sure when this will happen. It was a mad scramble to get production stabilized for the RT5X-Pro.
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Greg2600
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Greg2600 »

What am I missing about the SCART connector? It's upside down so your cable will run out towards the front of the unit? I mean its not ideal but it's not like the pins are out of place, right?

Lone stinker for me is it doesn't have VGA input for the Dreamcast.
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Guspaz
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Re: RetroTINK 5x-Pro

Post by Guspaz »

Eh, the HD Retrovision dreamcast cables will be a thing at some point and it'll be the better option for anything that supports YPbPr.
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